Why the economy can't be fixed...

Yes Ordinal, I realise that part of the lacklustre response is down to the fact that the sorts of scripts I need are probably not that stimulating to do. There are free scripts around that do what I want, but as it's for a commercial product, I don't want to use them because I don't know what use the scripter intended them to be free for. I figure if someone's script is adding value to my product, they should be compensated. I would be prepared to value there time as much as I value mine, so I'd pretty much let them judge what they thought there time was worth. I don't script, so I couldn't judge.

You're right, it does add weight to what you were saying previously. Often it's not a case of 'needing' work, or wanting to work, more that you'll do it if it's something interesting. I doubt I'd take on a dull build just for the money, I'd rather go for the challenge.

Well look what Yumi just posted: /108/21/101385/1.html#post995925

That's a very contrived and simplistic example, in response to an absurd assertion that someone else apparently made.

Not really relevant here, I don't think.

Obviously I see things differently to you then.

Of course, I never studied economics at school.

EDIT: also worth noting I haven't read most of this thread.

Again, this economy is unique. It is related to more regulated game economies, and also to less regulated tourist economies, but this "type" of economy does not exist elsewhere. Now and for the foreseeable future, people are continuing to flock to SL, and both the economy and the culture are growing more complex and energetic as a result. Barriers to entry are only growing fewer with the proliferation of necessary technology. I don't see this collapse coming anytime soon.

As for consumptin, no, people don't have to consume in SL and never have. But they do it anyway. For a lot of people, buying all that unnecessary stuff is a huge part of the enjoyment they get from SL. Yes, if they spent months or years working with the interface, maybe they could knock off one of my avs, or one of Damani's homes. If they put the same effort into Photoshop, LSL and Poser, then they could make everything themselves with a mere few hours of their time, rather than spend the equivalent of $2 on it.

Maybe instead of a tourist economy, think of SL as an entertainment district accessible from any city on earth. A few people work on the strip, but the majority of people are there for entertainment. They're not unemployed; they just don't work on the strip.

It is because it causes massive inflation because in order to get money they have to bring it in from outside. If the money supply becomes bloated, it devalues the L$. Thats basic economics.

the web isn't an independent economy, your example is invalid.

thats the same thing. You're asking people to come to an area and bring money from the outside. If people want to try and make money off SL thats going to become exceedingly difficult as the value becomes lower and lower and you're getting 20,000 linden for a couple bucks.

Yeah, realised that while I let myself get dragged into the conversation I'm not actually having the same one as you. Sorry about that.

I think if I were to word what I'm saying in a relavant way it'd be something like "it don't matter fo' shit".

Woah. You are putting words in my mouth, assigning motivations to me that are not mine, and generally being rude when I've been nothing but polite and rational with you.

I'm done here.

Not at all. You put those words in your mouth. If people didn't get the L$500 every week from stipends, that money they spend on you and other business owners would have to come out of pocket. So you would expect people to turn around, spend more money out of pocket so that:
1)There would be less inflation, ensuring your L$ was more valuable
2)You would continue to get the same revenue you do

Thats nothing but greed, and yes that deserves a little rudeness.

In Soviet Russia (at least the parts US citizens could see) there was the occupation of "escalator watcher"; I kid thee not. These positions were invariably held by old women whose job it was to - presumably - watch the escalators; perhaps it was a "from each according to their abilities" sorta policy. As the escalators never once left their tracks in search of food or entertainment, I never got to see what the escalator watchers did under pressure.

I'm thinking of building an SL escalator so that I can watch it. I hope I pay well.

I'm reminded of an old joke... there was a small town with a close and amiable community. The town also had their required villiage idiot who was amiable as well. The town council wanted to support the differently-abled member of their community, Fred, but didn't want to embarass him with charity so they made up the job of "cannon polisher" to keep the cannon on the courthouse lawn shiny and provide Fred with a livable income.

For thirty years, Fred polished that cannon diligently and was very proud of his work. One day, Fred submitted his resignation to the council - they were aghast. The mayor went to speak to Fred:

/rimshot

I've found this thread interesting...from both a SL point of view, and also from an economic theory perspective. I thought I'd add my own personal thoughts to the discussion.

I joined SL a few days ago, and one thing that has struck me about the platform is the lack of employment (aside from running a business/club or working as an escort).

with all my current RL obligations, it's unlikely I will be able to spend large amounts of time making virtual clothes/objects or scripting in order to stock a SL business. Which leaves my in-game financial situation pretty dire. So naturally I don't shop, and therefore contribute little to the economy.

Being a student, my RL income is pretty marginal. My net access is a luxury in itself, and there's no way I would consider purchasing $L, particularly as I'm in Australia, so it would be even more expensive for me to purchase in-game currency.

I for one would welcome the opportunity to earn some linden bucks by working at a cash register or something similar. 'Specially considering that so much of the SL experience revolves around shopping and spending money.

Another thing to consider - During my first couple of visits to SL, I tp'ed to many many places listed in the directory looking for something fun and engaging. As I hopped from location to location, I was struck by how many of the places are just great big empty malls, millions of items for sale, and no one around. If average jobs were integrated into SL, and you had people working in shops that you could talk to, it would, I believe, increase the enjoyment of SL in general.

As it stands, I have mainly used SL so far as a platform for chatting with other people. This is great and a lot of fun, but then again, it's not a significant enough incentive to make me upgrade my basic account. I think integrating employment into SL would definitley enhance the whole experience.

Jinsar-

Not including stipends (or dwell income for the next 8 weeks or so) which are created from within SecondLife... I utterly fail to see how bringing in money from outside contributes to a bloated money supply or to massive inflation.

People buy L$'s from other players. That doesn't add to the money supply it merely moves it around.

--
hm.

I'm not sure why you think that..

The point of the chart was to show that if doing business (either as a means to an end, an end in itself, or a bonus) is the most "value-for-time/money" activity in SL ("value" being defined in terms of whatever the individual consumer wants out of SL), then the number of businesses that can turn a profit or repay tier is limited - because beyond a certain point the non-business folks would have to be putting in more money than the business folks; if business is the best VFM in the game, non-business folks are necessarily getting less value for their money than business folks are and will have no desire to do that.

People say how baffled they are that others want to work but it's not that unnatural. Many new folks have some desire to go into business usually because they want to be able to make their own stuff, and if they are making stuff anyway then why not sell it on the side? The key point of having a business for them isn't the business angle of selling and making money, it's the fact that owning a business would indiciate they had good creative skills.

The thing is, though, a lot of people don't want to work for that reason, I've seen many threads essantially asking for jobs that aren't based around creating since they don't want to/can't make things.

No she didn't.

If you can find a quote from this thread where Sabrina advocated removing the stipends, please give me the quote.



Hmmm. As far as I can see you have consistently disagreed vociferously with a range of quite reasonable comments. This is a discussion forum - and part of having a discussion is *listening* to what other people are saying, even when you disagree with them. Read the guidelines for recommended ettiquette.

In short:
- For many people, SL is a form of entertainment that they are happy to spend RL money on. That is their choice. Sabrina was merely pointing that out, and it does happen to be true.
- For others, providing content for others is a form of entertainment in itself. This often involves costs, and many providers like to be able to reclaim those costs by selling their Lindens. For a small number, the amount they earn is enough to live on in RL.
- Most people here do not appear to be here for jobs. People looking for employees in SL often struggle to find them, based on comments in this thread.
- The economy of SL is unlikely to collapse because there are not enough jobs for people. The worst that could happen is that those people who cant find work in SL move on to gold farming in WoW instead, leaving everyone else happy to get on with what they are doing already.

[TONE_OF_VOICE=grumpy_old_senile_retiree]

The problem with this economy is all them danged trust-fund-newbies.

Zooming around in their pre-built vehicular gadgets with their big prim girlies.

They gotz so much dadgummed bling-bling Ah need mah sunglasses.

They'z got no respect for doin things the hard way. No appreciation of value.

Why in MY day we had to rez prims up-hill in the dark... both ways! And we liked it Just Fine!

[/TONE_OF_VOICE]

Jinsar Eponym, your original post... it's entirely correct. Wish I could have written such a stringent analysis myself.

We are a number of people who have discovered this much about SL and little by little, the message is bound to get through even to the most fanatical monetarists. An economy is nothing if it's not a physical economy.

I see also that you have already taken the customary flak. That's the way it goes around here.

Keep it up!