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Survey: Who would want live in a zoned sim managed by Anshe?

Hiro Pendragon
bye bye f0rums!
Join date: 22 Jan 2004
Posts: 5,905
01-31-2005 22:04
Anshe,

I wouldn't rent / buy from you, but then again, I've been around enough where I can get my own land without a realtor.

However, I can see a lot of new players would do this. I commend you for continuing to move into ventures with more creativity and value than simple cut-and-resell land barony.
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Hiro Pendragon
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Ananda Sandgrain
+0-
Join date: 16 May 2003
Posts: 1,951
01-31-2005 22:53
Jauani, under the current auction system, who gets to choose the land they want anyway? If you've got your eye on a particular parcel, you can bet someone else does too, along with the resellers. You're either going to have to bid to higher than it costs, or accept a different parcel. The parcel is probably not going to be shaped the way you want it anyway.

Not to mention:

a) Buying next to unknown neighbors is a crapshoot.

b) Your view and your lag-free environment will most likely be gone in a few weeks.

c) Your neighbor wanted your land and hates you for getting it first.

d) Your friend who wanted to live next door lost her auctions to a reseller. Now there's a club going in and you're getting demands to sell your land daily.

e) The rest of the land in the sim was bought by a reseller who is making profits by smashing the landscape and reparceling.

If we went to land-on-demand, the initial Linden price would be the highest you'd ever have to pay for land, except for cases like established popular areas. It'd become a much less constricted market. Don't like what's available? Just make more. :)

This is not planet Earth, sims are not diamonds, and we don't need DeBeers trying to tell us these things are rare.

--------

Ulrika, can I just refer you to the link I previously posted? I've proposed variations of this same idea for nearly a year now. I think the Lindens actually like watching the cutthroat auction crap. I dunno, maybe they figure strife builds interest.
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Anshe Chung
Business Girl
Join date: 22 Mar 2004
Posts: 1,615
02-01-2005 01:29
From: Eggy Lippmann
Hi Anshe, I would definitely not mind living in a sim managed by you. But, I would like to have control over my land


I am afraid if you have control over your land then everybody else has control over their land. Then there is no way to enforce any rules :-(
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Anshe Chung
Business Girl
Join date: 22 Mar 2004
Posts: 1,615
02-01-2005 01:31
From: Jsecure Hanks
What about building five or six nice white houses and gardens, and letting people select which one they want on their plot. Then people who like the whole look of it can move in.


This has been done numereous times, but like Eggy most people don't want live in prefabricated houses. Building seems part of the fun for most people.
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Anshe Chung
Business Girl
Join date: 22 Mar 2004
Posts: 1,615
02-01-2005 01:34
From: Prokofy Neva
I'm still having trouble wrapping my mind around the idea that you have to take over tier, though. I guess I don't expect that the people who come in and agree to keep a sim zoned, who are highly motivated to have a sim zoned, are going to be the people that will suddenly screw you and build a laggy club on you. But you have the experience in dealing with volumes, so maybe you are right to assume that people will do their worst, even after promises.


Yes, they do their worst. Usually "nice" people suddenly come up with all kindsa reasons. Nice people sell their land to their "friends" who turn out be less nice people and so on. "Urgent RL reasons" leave their mark. And so on. Latest example: Ontario Retail Park.
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Anshe Chung
Business Girl
Join date: 22 Mar 2004
Posts: 1,615
02-01-2005 02:26
From: Unhygienix Gullwing
If there were someone who were managing/owning a sim and renting it out, AND passing along their VERY NOTICEABLE tier savings (for owning an entire sim) to the renters with say only a 10%-20% markup from the tier that they themselves are paying, I would probably be very interested. Such a proposition could also be made self-managing, by creating a different group for each sim that is being managed this way, and promoting one of the residents to act as a superintendant and manage things like trash cleanup or zoning enforcement.

One of the biggest problems in trying to manage such an endeavor for-profit, is the inherent mistrust that your business activities will generate among others. You could be a very honest, forthright business person, but the fact that you are acting for-profit will always tend to itch at the necks of your prospective customers. Example: "Why am I paying the same amount of tier to her as I'd pay to Linden Labs? She isn't paying nearly that much for the land, she's getting nearly a %50 discount for owning a sim entire. And the moment I leave, the land is still hers; I can't reclaim any of the rent or sell it on to a friend or other person." A system that encourages personal ownership, or something close to it, of the property will be much more likely to meet with success.

I'll give you a business idea, free of charge, because I think that you're one of the few businesspeople in SL who has the venture capital and integrity to carry it off.

On anshechung.com, set up a new service. Set up a forum in there where people can sign up and look for potential other group members to go in on a sim together. Example: "Looking for people who want to re-create an ancient roman villa", or "looking for a group who just wants to live in a relatively lag-fee, club-free, mall-free sim." Set up an easy-to-read setup guide, FAQ, explaining how the 65,000 m of land all has to be accounted for before you can step in. Once a group has "critical mass", enough members to populate the sim and enough tier ready to donate, they wait for a sim to come up at auction and decide if it meets their requirements. If it does, they ask you to step in and bid on it for them, up to a certain amount. Whatever the final bidding price is, you tack on your management fee of perhaps $50 or $100, or say 5% or 10%. The group members divide up the final price according to the sized parcels they want, and pay you for them. You then set up the sim according to their wishes, promote 1-3 of them to group officers, and leave the group.

The idea is discussed in slightly more detail here.

If you serve as broker for these people instead of landlord, you'll not only reduce the amount of time and energy you have to spend on each sim, you'll gain their respect and gratitude aside from their money. Granted, you will be earning a one-time fee instead of continuing rent, but I have a feeling that "Anshe Chung" the avatar is reaching a point where her puppetmistress doesn't have enough hours in the day to keep up with the various business dealings required of her.

By setting it up as a self-serve kind of idea, all you have to advertise is the service itself. You will not have to advertise for the various groups in your website's forums looking for more members in order to bid on a sim. That job is for the interested group members to do. If they want you to bid on a sim for them, they have to gather enough members first.

If you are serving as real-estate broker for reasonable prices, you can also reduce the amount of competition on the auction block. If you are bidding for a group instead of against them, the overall price of the sim is likely to be lower.


Honestly, I don't believe in people deciding how much my time is worth or what my margin should be. This is something that should be decided by the market.

Now people pay their tier to Linden Lab. You have problem with Linden Lab make too much profit? So if people pay the same amount of money to me, but get one better service, why should they bother how much I earn or what my tier savings are? It is my business decide what price my cost, risk and time result in.

And a one time management fee of 50$ or 5% is not even close to anything reasonable giving all the effort and risk involved in your proposal. And you don't mean that to include PayPal fees, bank charges, tax etc? ;-) But even if that is not include, looking at the effort I would end up working for pennies on the hour.

Successful business is decided by market. The seller offers service and sets the price. And it is competition that drives down prices and margins. Customers discuss quality of product and compare prices between products. They shouldn't be concerned if one business makes money or looses money. Or does anyone care that some content creators make 50k L$ per day and more?

As for the concept of "broker": who is responsible? Who really takes the risk? I don't think it works. Sure, somebody will try, spend much effort, maybe do it once or twice. But if broker margin won't be really considerable amount, then the person will vanish. Because considering all the time and hazzle spent on it, doing brokerage to conditions you describe the real motivation won't be greed or money, but fun and hobby. In one ideal world nobody is greedy, everybody has fun provide service and all people are busy work bees motivated by fun of doing their job. Actually, in ideal world "work" does not exist, all is "play". Probably also money would not exist and need to buy food or health insurance would not exist. But in reality, even virtual reality, greed is what is the #1 long lasting motivator for 99% of people to provide certain "mundane" services on regular basis. One professional cost money, one amateur can be found for free.
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Catherine Cotton
Tis Elfin
Join date: 2 Apr 2003
Posts: 3,001
02-01-2005 02:39
times are changing, arn't they...

Maybe if SOME PPL didn't corner the auction market ppl could afford to buy land.

GOOD LUCK
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Anshe Chung
Business Girl
Join date: 22 Mar 2004
Posts: 1,615
02-01-2005 02:48
From: Ananda Sandgrain
Jauani, you know me. I'm not a complete idiot. The auction system is a big reason why there are so many islands, but they are not the same thing. An island can only be owned whole, undivisible, by a single account. What I want to see is wholesale sims. Or to put it more bluntly, I want to see an end to the auctions as the main method of distributing land.


What you are asking for is Linden staff spend more time, do more work and for less money. Basically you want Linden Lab provide service for free that in game entrepreneurs provide for money.

There is reason for island sims to be cheap and there is reasons for island sims to be undivisable at same time. Low price and single owner are tied together because of lower workload one owner creates as compared to many owners. At least at this stage of Second Life's evolution.

Subdividing sims, selling small parcels, billing many people, dealing with billing failures with many people, landscaping a sim (as opposed to just selling copies of same 4 identical island sims), claiming holding and reselling land that goes public and playing police cop cost time. And time is money.

For this reason asking Linden Lab to sell you lovely desert sims for 980$ and bill 20 people in your group separately is like ask them to half their tier fees. Or it is like asking owner of your little grocery store to sell you apples for wholesale prices.
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Catherine Cotton
Tis Elfin
Join date: 2 Apr 2003
Posts: 3,001
02-01-2005 03:00
From: Anshe Chung
What you are asking for is Linden staff spend more time, do more work and for less money. Basically you want Linden Lab provide service for free that in game entrepreneurs provide for money.

There is reason for island sims to be cheap and there is reasons for island sims to be undivisable at same time. Low price and single owner are tied together because of lower workload one owner creates as compared to many owners. At least at this stage of Second Life's evolution.

Subdividing sims, selling small parcels, billing many people, dealing with billing failures with many people, landscaping a sim (as opposed to just selling copies of same 4 identical island sims), claiming holding and reselling land that goes public and playing police cop cost time. And time is money.

For this reason asking Linden Lab to sell you lovely desert sims for 980$ and bill 20 people in your group separately is like ask them to half their tier fees. Or it is like asking owner of your little grocery store to sell you apples for wholesale prices.



Who asked you to put your time in SL? No one. Who asked you to work for us? No one. How many apartments and houses now sit vacant for less?
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Hiro Pendragon
bye bye f0rums!
Join date: 22 Jan 2004
Posts: 5,905
02-01-2005 03:09
From: Catherine Cotton
Who asked you to put your time in SL? No one. Who asked you to work for us? No one. How many apartments and houses now sit vacant for less?

If Anshe wants to sell houses, and Anshe wants to try out an organization policy for a sim, and Anshe wants to inquiry to the community if it's a good idea, what's wrong with that?

She may find it to be a profitable or unprofitable venture, but why do you really care either way, Catherine? You don't think it'll be successful? So what? Let her try and fail. That's what entrepeneuring is all about - and most small business ventures fail. Why does that concern you to get so apprehensive with her?
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Hiro Pendragon
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Anshe Chung
Business Girl
Join date: 22 Mar 2004
Posts: 1,615
02-01-2005 03:11
From: Ulrika Zugzwang
Anshe,

Would you be willing to rent-to-own? For instance, say a group wanted to purchase a whole sim but didn't have the money. Could they pay full-tier plus commission, while they slowly purchased parcels of the land for themselves? That would be a profoundly valuable service.

~Ulrika~


I have lotsa land for sale, from 512sqm to whole sims. Groups or individuals can either buy directly or they can rent until they have enough money and then buy. It is not unusual some friends come to me, then maybe one buys land, two others rent land next to him. Maybe one then buys his land some weeks later, while the other one decides not own land but rent indefinitely.

To keep things simple I currently charge 400 L$ per 1024sqm per week in rent flat. At current L$ rate that is cheaper than smallest tiers and a bit more than the larger tiers. This also protects me from PayPal fraud and the like.
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Anshe Chung
Business Girl
Join date: 22 Mar 2004
Posts: 1,615
02-01-2005 03:21
From: Catherine Cotton
How many apartments and houses now sit vacant for less?


Most people don't like rent prefabricated buildings they can not modify. And most people are tired of being kicked out from their homes, often without any warning, when land owner gets tired of playing "Sim Rental".

I offer professional service and have tenants who have enjoyed uninterrupted rentals since more than 6 months.
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Anshe Chung
Business Girl
Join date: 22 Mar 2004
Posts: 1,615
02-01-2005 03:29
From: blaze Spinnaker
I'm in. Sounds like a great idea.


Thanks, I also received your message :-) There is one other person who contacted me sofar, totalling about 6000sqm or 1/10th of sim. So, need some more. I think with 1/2 sims worth of "preorders" I think I could start.

The exact zoning rules would be discussed and written down during meeting with the first residents before any renting or buying takes place :-)
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Maxx Monde
Registered User
Join date: 14 Nov 2003
Posts: 1,848
02-01-2005 04:36
And what happens if your mouse twitches and everything gets returned?

Just wondering. Can't wait to see you 'Chung' up another virgin parcel, lol.
Daemioth Sklar
Lifetime Member
Join date: 30 Jul 2003
Posts: 944
02-01-2005 05:25
i guess people are comfortable with all the for sale signs and mass world ownership these days ... just another reason why i should continue my looong break from being in-world
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Malachi Petunia
Gentle Miscreant
Join date: 21 Sep 2003
Posts: 3,414
02-01-2005 05:25
Who would want live in a zoned sim managed by Anshe?

That's a trick question, isn't it?
Unhygienix Gullwing
I banged Pandastrong
Join date: 26 Jun 2004
Posts: 728
02-01-2005 09:40
From: Anshe Chung
Honestly, I don't believe in people deciding how much my time is worth or what my margin should be. This is something that should be decided by the market.

Now people pay their tier to Linden Lab. You have problem with Linden Lab make too much profit? So if people pay the same amount of money to me, but get one better service, why should they bother how much I earn or what my tier savings are? It is my business decide what price my cost, risk and time result in.......



Anshe, of course you're welcome do conduct your business affairs entirely as you see fit. Since the thread was started by you, however, asking for opinions....well, I gave mine. I think that an idea like this would take less, rather than more of your time for the following reasons:

1. You simply provide a place for people to get together and organize into groups of the "theme" they wish to form together in. They do the work, self-organize, and advertise for new members in-world or in-forum

2. They tell you the maximum they are willing to bid on the sim, and you don't lift a finger until they agree that they have enough members, and the capital to cover the costs of how much they want, and have a breakdown on how much land each person wants.. Often, these would be groups of people who might not know each other well enough that they'd trust one of themselves to buy the sim.

3. You buy the land, tack on whatever your fee would be (again, I don't presume to tell you what your fees should be; but I suspect that anything over 10% of the price paid for the sim will drive customers away from you rather than attracting them to you). Take out your pocket calculator, and start figuring out how much each person in the group owes you, based on the auction + fee, and divided by how much land that person wants. Pretty simple.

4. The entire sim gets put into Group. As each person pays, they get invited into the group. Once the entire sim is accounted for, you promote two residents to officer status and leave the group.

5. You'll be fulfilling sims on-demand, rather than speculating. Essentially, you'll be sacrificing the risk of potentially high profits or noticeable losses for a standard brokerage fee. You also won't have to keep the tier in your own name for a long time; you'd perhaps be able to clear it in as quickly as 24-48 hours, instead of half the sim perhaps sitting for weeks unsold.


Again, it was only an idea. You're free to conduct your business as you see best, but I think that if services like the one I am suggesting do not pop up, then LL is likely within the next year to start providing on-demand sims (like Ananda suggested) in some form, which will tend to cut you out of a portion of the market. Best of luck.
Anna Engel
Engelein
Join date: 13 Sep 2004
Posts: 133
02-01-2005 10:03
Anshe, I would be very interested! :)
I am looking for a place right now and considering all the different options (renting apt/land, buying land etc).

There are two things that are important to me and either option doesn't seem to be able to guarantee them at the moment - both have to do with stability.

1. If I move to a nice area, the area stays nice, e.g. no ugly and laggy things appear around my land all of a sudden.
2. I don't have to move again if the owner of the land decides to sell it or lets people rent it only for a certain maximum time (just like you said in your previous posting).

So, your suggestion seems perfect to me.
Will IM you too as soon as SL is up again.

Anna
Ananda Sandgrain
+0-
Join date: 16 May 2003
Posts: 1,951
02-01-2005 10:27
From: Anshe Chung
What you are asking for is Linden staff spend more time, do more work and for less money. Basically you want Linden Lab provide service for free that in game entrepreneurs provide for money.


Not true. If Linden Lab adopted my suggestion they would be spending considerably LESS time once the website or find tool was built. They currently spend a great deal of time creating landscapes, infrastructure, and parcelizing for the auctions, which resellers then turn around and RE-do. This would actually be much more efficient because the land does not have to be written into the auction system and each sim is simply divided into regular chunks like a Jeffersonian section.

From: Anshe Chung
There is reason for island sims to be cheap and there is reasons for island sims to be undivisable at same time. Low price and single owner are tied together because of lower workload one owner creates as compared to many owners. At least at this stage of Second Life's evolution.

Subdividing sims, selling small parcels, billing many people, dealing with billing failures with many people, landscaping a sim (as opposed to just selling copies of same 4 identical island sims), claiming holding and reselling land that goes public and playing police cop cost time. And time is money.

For this reason asking Linden Lab to sell you lovely desert sims for 980$ and bill 20 people in your group separately is like ask them to half their tier fees. Or it is like asking owner of your little grocery store to sell you apples for wholesale prices.


This is total nonsense. Linden Lab will make a great deal more money off of a sim if a dozen small landowners take up residence than if one large landlord owns the whole thing. We have a separate island program because LOTS of people were willing to front up huge amounts of cash just to avoid the auction system.
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Cain Heiden
Pained Expression
Join date: 20 Dec 2004
Posts: 26
02-01-2005 10:46
From: Anshe Chung
Thanks, I also received your message :-) There is one other person who contacted me sofar, totalling about 6000sqm or 1/10th of sim. So, need some more. I think with 1/2 sims worth of "preorders" I think I could start.


I'm not sure if you're including me in that, Anshe, but the roughly 3000 m2 specific plot I mentioned to you is one I'm interested in BUYING. If it was for rental only, I'd probably change my mind.
Hiro Pendragon
bye bye f0rums!
Join date: 22 Jan 2004
Posts: 5,905
02-01-2005 23:07
From: Maxx Monde
And what happens if your mouse twitches and everything gets returned?

Just wondering. Can't wait to see you 'Chung' up another virgin parcel, lol.

I think she already answered this question, Maxx. She said she's had housing up for 6 months. This problem is something she even mentioned about other renters - who decide to up and leave and the tenants are high and dry.

My main concern would be how Anshe plans to deal with dispute resolution - like what if one resident hogs up all the prims, or two neighbors don't get along?
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Hiro Pendragon
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Sophos Casanova
Prefab Builder
Join date: 23 May 2004
Posts: 228
02-01-2005 23:33
I would join you Anshe :-D
Hokuto Gorham
Registered User
Join date: 21 Dec 2004
Posts: 95
02-02-2005 01:48
surely an interesting option
Bruno Buckenburger
Registered User
Join date: 30 Dec 2004
Posts: 464
02-07-2005 12:57
Personally, I would not and it's nothing against you. I don't want zoning period.

But I will say that if there are sufficient amounts of people that do (and it appears there are), then you would be offering a service to them -- which should be promoted.
Mina Welesa
Semi-retired
Join date: 19 Dec 2004
Posts: 228
02-07-2005 16:34
In RL I'm a very conservative, quiet individual who never does anything to disturb my neighbors. I wouldn't, however, even consider moving to a deed-restricted neighborhood, no matter how lovely, simply because I don't like the idea that someone else could dictate what color I could or could not paint my house, for instance. This attitude would be problematic for me in SL, as well, were strict zoning laws set in place. I'd have to move to the woods. :)

Needless to say, this doesn't mean that option isn't a good idea. It might work very well for many people.
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