SL is killing itself

The people who want fair reward for their efforts are forgetting that capitalism doesn't guarantee "fairness" - and no, not even for people who work hard. Sorry.

The truth - and I'm afraid that, yes, it's cruel - is that the L$ is going down because people aren't willing to pay US$ for the products available in SL. That does not mean that those products are bad, it might just mean that people don't like spending real money for virtual items, or any number of other reasons.

But saying "we have to force people to pay US$ for L$ because it's not fair that we shouldn't get paid for our work" is no more reasonable a complaint than "we should get paid because it's not fair that we got here later and can't compete".

I agree with you on this aspect. Eventually the slide will stop, the "economy" will stabilize itself and the developers will adjust their prices to compensate for the change. However, I do disagree with you when you say "people aren't willing to pay US$ for the products available in SL." Because they do spend US$ to buy L$, if they did not, the residents trying to sell L$ would not be able to.



I never said anything about forcing people to do anything, it was merely a suggestion to all those complaining about the shift. If they are truely that unhappy, rather than complain about it, they need to develop a plan to LL that corrects it in a reasonable manner, like a fixed exchange rate. As for your remark about it not being fair to those who are new and can not compete... those who are new do not know any different than those of us who have been around for it all and actually feel the "hit" of the slide. Most of us will either adapt to the change and adjust to compensate or find other markets for our work.

The bottom line is an SL year lasts about 7 days in the real world and it shows, everyday something new and unique is added to SL and every next day 10 people try to replicate that for their own game, just like in the real world. Eventually the population will top off and stablize, as well as the "economy". Now the "game" is about survival. Not to be cliche' about it, but "Only the strong will survive".

It's not as cut and dried as that - they're not able to sell as many L$ as they'd like to. That's why they having to compete with each other, cutting prices to try and make sure they sell.

And, probably, most of the money being spent on L$ is being spent to buy land, rather than content.



Not you personally - but the favourite claim is that taking away stipend would force people to buy L$. When in fact, people would be buying L$ now if they wanted to.

Considering people spend $17,000USD to $30,000USD each DAY just on Lindex ignoring all other currency sellers and direct cash payment's I'd call that pretty ignorant. The USD market for $L is huge I see 4 problems none of them have to do with people being unwilling to buy $L.

1. Fearmongers - As long as individuals hostile to SL continue to attack the stability of the linden they will induce panic sales falsely lowering the value.

2. Manipulation - After recent event's it's slightly more believable that a certain large baroness is simply inept, but the market does show plenty of manipulation just doesn't show who. That also artificially lowers the value.

I'm placing structural problems last since we don't know the true scale of the fixable problems due to the constant attacks on the lindex

3. The lindex is the flagship exchange of the linden and most other pricing is based on it but it's only half an exchange. No one can place a market sell order on the lindex so people trying to place market sell orders keep driving the market down.

4. Net gainers don't have enough $L sinks. Most of the $L bought each day will probably arrive right back on the market within 1-7 days instead of being consumed or circulating. Demand for $L is being used as fast as possible without putting much of a dent in supply.

I had a few conversations today as I was selling off my land with some new SL'ers. Their focus was NOT on having fun and meeting people. It was to MAKE MONEY period. Over the last few months pretty much every newb I met had this motivation.

This is why I have decided to sell off my land and call it quits. SL is no longer a fun place to be in and I havn't been here that long! There are dozens of clubs now and still new one's poping up everday. All the same just different places. New malls poping up like wildfire yet I hardly ever see anyone in any mall other than the one's with camping chairs.

In fact there is only a couple places I have been in SL that have a decent amount of people that are not sitting in camping chairs. However those places are based on virtual sex. lol

I also find a lot of women are actualy not. Although I don't hold that against them here as you are supposed to be what you want to be not what you are. However that takes some of the intrest out of it for me.

SL- were men are men, women are men, animals are men and children are men. LOL

Damn you Brits... But the one cool thing, is that trying to sell
your Goods overseas makes then too expensive to afford and thus
nobody buys them... lol

Since L's are only of value to me to buy what thigns I cannot make in world and rent my home, I never cash out. Plus I do remember being a newb in my pasty faced skin, with blond hair that looked more orange, crappy default footwear and clothing and seeing things I wished I had enough L's to buy but no way to earn said L's. I'll keep it affordable for all TYVM.

Actually here is a viable way to stabilize it. LL bans all off site sales of L's. If you want to cash out you can only cash out to Linden, and you are prohibitted from selling privately as well. Then ppl have to buy thier L's from LL. There...Problem removed since LL would bear the brunt of the market and could just place one blanket price and value on L's. That would also stop RBD's crying and market manipultions, along with the attempts by a few others to cause a panic and point to the wrong reason as a cause.LOL Let the hate mail begin.

The thing is, you have to distinguish between

a) the newbies who actually just want to rake in US$,
b) the newbies who are coming to SL with a traditional MMORPG view and who think L$ are XP,
c) the newbies who have been looking around stores and seen how expensive everything is compared to their starting funds.

All of them "want money" but they have totally different reasons behind it.

That works so well for Everquest and World of Warcraft, doesn't it?

For those of you who said "UM...2nd Life is JUST a GAME'.....Perhaps you don't have the passion that some do. I have a friend who makes a nice lil CHUNK of money every month because she is GOOD at what she does, and has a product that PEOPLE WILL ALWAYS WANT! Sure 2nd life is Entertaining...Sure some people get 'way too wrapped up in it'..we all know someone like that.
2nd Life is just what it says...Frightening eh? SECOND LIFE...for those who are up on the news..and the 'cyber community'...you know that 2nd life is SOooOoo much more than what some call a 'game'...we know..it is a Community, and this ONLINE COMMUNITY has a strong spirit of Creativity. I can't understand how anyone can ENJOY 2nd life without either an Appreciation for Art/Music/Creativity...or a Passion for it.
For example...as an artist, I can bring my 'works' my 'talents' my 'passions' into this Community and reach a Wider and More Diverse Audience...all from the COMFORT of my 'Lounge'. ANd this is more and more of a reality not only in Real Life, but also in 2nd life.
One can hear a dozen or more LIVE musicians in a day....and see a dozen or more TRUE Pieces of art....without Leaving where they are 'comfy'...
The music industry has got to HATE THIS! But...as a musician/singer/songwriter...I WANT MY OWN RIGHTS....I dno't want anyone BUYING my rights..I didn't work this hard to have someone 'think they own me'....
And the MONEY?
Well first, I have a PASSION for what I do....I do it cuz it FEELS really good, and I also do it in RL....
The OPPORTUNITY in 2nd life are vast....And I see more and more people getting in on the latest.
So whatever is OUT there....that YOU can benefit from that YOU truly hav a passion for...BY ALL MEANS DO IT!
In our FIRST LIVES..many work because they have to.
In 2nd life....we do what we LOVe because we CAN!
The money?
LOL
is our PASSION that makes us rich, not our greed.

Its game money. Feel lucky you can even cash it out in the first place.

I don't care how immersive a game is or how passionate you are about it.

Its -still- a game.

edit: those who ar eup on the news? CNBC even called it a game...CNBC isn't news?

Most of them do - that's exactly what they're trying to say. They want to use SL for their creative outlet without having to deal with making money, or (more importantly) with restrictions that are intended to make it easier for other people to make money.



Well, that's exactly the point. At the moment, it's hard to enjoy it without those things, and since people aren't enjoying it, they don't spend money on it. In other words, it attracts creators, but puts off potential consumers.

That's rather depressing.

It also means they're not going to stay very long, once they realise that this isn't actually the Land Of Free Money.

I have very few datapoints (i.e. my observations are based on the handful of new players I met, helped and/or made friends with - so I am not claiming this is a universal truth) but I noticed the same trend.

Their first questions are usually about how to make money in game (for some it was to buy better hair/clothes/etc, others mentioned the "make *real* money" angle from the start).

One month later, they are nowhere to be found (online).

I am a SL Mentor and spend a lot of time assisting new people who come into SL. And I agree, almost every single person I meet, the first question they ask me is how to I make money, and where can I get a job. Almost everyone of them want the money to either, buy clothes, skins to look better, or basically buy the things they want to QUOTE: Play The Game". Sure trying to make money to pay tier, paying in the platform, or just having lindens to do the things they want is what most people want to do. I know there are a few out there who think they can make a real living off this platform, but I am afraid with the very few exceptions that is not happening. We have a few land barons (sorry for the terminology), and a few "bankers" whoses aim are to make as much money as possible, but the majority of the residents in SL are here only for the enjoyment they get out of the "game". Those who spend most their time in the forums and do not really get out in-world to see what is really going on do not have a clue as to what the residents really want. There are a lot of talented creators in SL and from what I have learned in the past six months, is as stated here in this threat, are here again for the enjoyment and love of creating, not to make thier sole living from SL. Yes, it is a community, made up for real people, who for the most part have real life jobs to earn a living. They are here for a variety of reasons, but in the most it is to have fun, pay for their tier, and contribute back into the world they play in.

Who is killing SL? IMO there is a two fold answer, one the land barons who are trying to make as much money as possible without a care about SL or the residents, two, and I really believe this, there are a few who are trying to lower the value of the linden by dumping millions of lindens on the market.

Sure, I am here to play the game, it is not a money maker for me. I work in real life to support my home and family and play in sl. I am here to relieve the stresses and strains of everyday life. And there are plenty of things to do just that. I have made hundreds of new friends, I own property (Yes I am a preimum member), I have all kinds of toys to play with. And there are fantastic builds to go to, some really great clubs to visit, dance and spend time with my friends.

LL has stated this is "not only a game" (please note Phil Linden's comments in an article a while back in which he did refer to it as being a game as well as a platform) but a platform which allows the residents to do bascially whatever they want too. However, it is not a true e-commerce platform, it was not designed nor made specificaly for an individual to make their sole living from.

Again as stated earlier in this thread, it is the resident in SL who make SL work. We need to work together like in any other rl commuinty to make it better for everyone. The linden will stabilize, it may not be at 250L = 1 USD but it will stabilize.

The Linden value is not the major problem in SL. What is needed is a better platform, one that is stable. There are many many problems with the platform that need fixed. LL is aware of them, read the post today, there is an extremely long list. LL is working on them, and have a daunting task ahead of them. We need to work with them, point out the problems we are encountering so they can look at them and make the necessary fixes.

My suggestion to those who come into the forums only to complain about the state of the linden, or some of the other off-topics like age, sex, etc...is to get into the in-world, spend some time there talking to the true residents of SL, help where you can, contribute to the community instead of spending most your time in here flaming, blaming, and complaining.

As far as jobs are concerned, the residents of SL, the creators, the club owner, the scripter, etc....let's create jobs for the residents who are looking for jobs....

If you have ideas for jobs, if your needing someone to work for you, if your a scripter or creator and want to list the things you do, the talents you have, let me know....I am working on a possible solution to jobs in SL but need your input......

We need to make SL the best it can be but it is going to take the combined efforts of all the resident to make it better.

Just my 2 lindens worth.

.... hence at most 5000 can be found online at any one time out of 170,000 "residents", and at least half of those are probably sitting in camping chairs.

Give it up LL, stop promoting the fact that anyone can make as much money as one individual happens to (mostly because of the special treatment you give her, rather than any actual talent) and promote the fun and creativity aspects that SL offers.

By promoting "hey you can make real money", you're actually selling SL far, far short of its actual potential.

I found Phillip's comment rather amusing about how he thought he could make more money in game than he gets as CEO of LL. Bull, I say. I challenge him to try it for one month, on the same terms as the rest of us, and I bet he'll barely make a profit of 1% of his actual income (whatever that may be). All mouth, no trousers I say.

Lewis

The supportforhealing project has saved a number of people's lives this year.

Still think this is just a game?????

Wrong.....it may be for some, for others it's a lifeline.

Zafs

As CEO of a startup, he probably doesn't (or, rather, shouldn't) draw an appreciable salary until the venture is profitable (or at least at the monthly breakeven point).

If that's the case, he could probably make more than his "salary" just by registering a free basic to farm stipend from.

You are kidding, right?

Let's say he takes home $1000 a month - and I would expect it was a lot more. How many new users starting out with a basic account are going to make that a month, or ever?

I still say he should try it to show himself the fallacy of the marketing campaign which misleads people into thinking they can make money off of the game - then perhaps they'll market it properly and we can all enjoy a better experience.

Lewis

Zafu, I agree. Your group needs to be commended for the outstanding contributions, however, it was the residents who gave that made it work long with our efforts. Still doesn't mean that the majority of the residents few this as a game. It was with their hearts that made this work. I think your group set an example of what SL can be like and still be a game

Second Life - is different for everyone that plays it for some its just a game for some its a medium between game/business for others its strictly business. Its a diff medium for anyone that plays it and its up to them. They provide good/services and get money for it and can cash out its the same as r/l with being paid in a diff currency (in this case L) and trading it to a currency u use more commonly!

another thing a new player is going to ask how to make money doesnt mean they are going to cash out or go into business etc. They want their av's to be good and get clothing etc people jsut assume ohhh they wanna cash out blah blah blah. Its down to the direct person not newbies as a whole . Second Life is what you make it!!!!!!!!!

Way to snip out the most important part of my post. The part where I explained that he probably takes home close to zero each month. Seriously, are you being deliberately obtuse?
To refresh, I said:


When you snipped the first half of my post (i.e. what I've bolded above), and replied only to the second, you came off as being either a troll or a bonehead. Care to clarify for the group which one it is?

I agree Lina, if you read my post. Very very few are in here to make a living. As I said the first question most newbies as me is how do I make money, and the secondly most asked question is where can I find a new look and new clothes. That is why I have a large folder I have complied with new clothes and I mean good ones that can be transferred, and three folders of landmarks of the various stores in SL they can go too. And I have been known to take them to a few stores and actually buy them a set of threads....lol
I won't give money out...but I do buy a few things for some....