StoneSelf Karuna
His Grace
Join date: 13 Jun 2004
Posts: 1,955
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05-15-2005 10:50
From: Ellie Edo The last one I read had one big defect in my opinion. It was strangely reticent to issue a clear warning on one of the biggest dangers facing the innocent. The mis-description of private island rent/lease arrangements as sales. thank you for your concern. however, ll's plan is to remove the ability to set estate land for sale. this should prevent the listing of "rental" land as being for sale, and that should make it unneccessary to put anything in the notecard. however, if this is still confusing, then something should be added.
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Ellie Edo
Registered User
Join date: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 1,425
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05-21-2005 04:02
The mis-description needn't cease just because its no longer possible in the land sale list. According to the defiantly stated intentions of one landowner it will continue to occur in all the other places where land can be advertised.
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Roberta Dalek
Probably trouble
Join date: 21 Oct 2004
Posts: 1,174
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05-21-2005 10:52
The rental notecard contains the following: "Some landlords will deed your land to a group of your choice. This will allow you more control such as terraforming, admit and ban lists. Some landlords may call this ownership and ask for an upfront fee (to "purchase"  . Some landlords don't and will deed to group for a normal weekly rent. If a landlord calls the land owned rather than rented they may expect you to find a replacement."
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Ellie Edo
Registered User
Join date: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 1,425
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05-21-2005 19:16
Yep. Bit reticent, as I said. Could warn a bit more strongly about a practice Robin Linden described as "misleading".
After all, if you think you are buying normally, and you're not, much of the other information you have read about land purchase, how to do it, what it means etc. will not apply.
I would suggest that since this is a substantial addition it could be done one of two ways. Either incorporate something like this below in whole, or just use the first paragraph to referr to the whole thing on a separate notecard.
SUGGESTED TEXT, either whole, or partly split onto a separate notecard:
"Some residents may offer to "sell you land" which they "own" when in fact they are selling not land, but a transferable (resellable) rental agreement or lease giving the right to occupy land belonging to a landlord, who is another resident. These leases are often priced just below normal land value, and can appear misleadingly similar. If you are to consider this you need to be careful to understand the advantages and disadvantages of occupying land in this way. Detailed pros and cons are laid out below (or in the separate Notecard called "Land Leasing Pros and Cons - or when is a Sale Not a Sale".
The big disadvantage: The Lindens have warned that you are entirely reliant on your landlord's honesty and continued presence in the game. He can evict you (or everyone) without compensation at any moment, so that may you lose your "purchase price", and LL will not intervene. The lease is a private non-enforceable agreement between you and him. No such fraud has yet occurred, but the potential is there.
The big advantage: Your landlord may promise to act as a private police force, enforcing standards of behaviour and building quality in a way which LL will not. He will normally have a set of rules and guidelines which you and everyone else must obey on peril of land forfeiture. These "private sims" can look very nice, can be free of malls, clubs, and greifers, and can have attractive "themes".
Other aspects to consider are: Acquiring a plot, and transferring it to others, requires the attendance of the landlord, who alone has the power to do these things. You have to form a group to hold the lease (so that the landlord can act through it). This needs two other players, and costs L$100 to form. If you dont have two other players you trust, you can create two more characters at a one-off cost of US19.90 (currently, May 2005, about L$5000). Apart from your inability to sell and advertise it normally via the "about land" dialogue (because the landlord still owns it) you have all the normal controls over your land.
Since you are not the landowner, you do not need to pay a monthly (premium) subscription, thus saving US$9.95 per month (currently about L$2500). Neither (obviously) do you pay tier to LL. Instead you pay rent directly to your landlord. Many landlords fix this at the same level as the tier you would otherwise pay as owner. But any other arrangement is possible - whatever the landlord offers, and you agree. This rent flexibility can offer a further advantage in that you may be able to hold amounts of land sized just above a LL "tier boundary" whilst only paying a small proportional rent increment"
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Varian Neutra
Registered User
Join date: 18 Oct 2004
Posts: 56
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05-21-2005 20:36
I think this is way too long and complicated especially for newbs. How about just a short:
"Some landlords on private islands sell long-term leases for an upfront purchase price but you will not actually own the land, even though you may have more access to it than mainland rentals. Special terms and conditions will apply and be sure you are thoroughly informed of them before payment."
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Ellie Edo
Registered User
Join date: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 1,425
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05-21-2005 21:52
Guess you may be right, Varian. A separate notecard would probably be best. With a reference from the main one, do you think?
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