ZONING and commercial business hours

I think there should be two types of zoning:

-- predesignated, permanent zoning: set by LL _ON ENTIRE SIMS_ before they are sold as FL:
C -- commercial
R -- residential (which should be, by definition, SAFE zones)
D -- (for DUAL) mixed commercial & residential
P -- public use, permanent (park/green space, local sandbox)

-- zoning set by those subscribers WHO OWN ENTIRE SIMS

And commercial businesses whose operations are script-heavy resource hogs (clubs/casinos) should be restricted to definite, limited "business hours".

There must be a way to flag a business as "open" when the owner is logged on and "closed" when the owner is _not_ online in-world... So that the scripts in the business are active only when the owner is online and deactivated when he/she/it is not.

So I suppose when the ceos of walmart sleep, every walmart should be closed?

Thats what you're saying and its bad business. Even if it was implemented there are a myriad of ways around it.

Make a group the owner. The group is online as long as -one- member of it is..

Use an anti-idler and let the computer stay on. Given the generally lost cost of electricity vs linden profit..all it takes is 7L/hour profit to leave your comp on and break even with power usage.
This is all beside the fact that its a horrid idea that could never be implemented because of the loud voices shouting against it.

I know that if you look at the most popular places in SL with a few exception those locations are on islands that they control. The clubs that are not in their own sim normally only operate for limited hours on a few nights a week and are normally empty or may have a few people dancing the rest of the time and not camp dancing. The places which are on the most popular list and are not on islands of their own are the real issue. Some of those are not issues as you look at where they are in the world they have nothing around them, but other places are not that way. Some are smack in middle of mixed use sims that are both home and business locations for the land owners. That is where the problem comes in.

I am not say this would or would not work, but on average the bigger problem at this point is less to do with what is located where. It is the camping chair issue and the fact that a lot of people that have issues are when someone sets up a large camping operation in a sim with homes and other businesses. A sim that is rarely empty before the camp location came in. Then a camping operation come in and sets up shop using on average 65-70% of the sim resources 24/7 and as high as 100% at from time to time. In the specific case I am having issues with it is now limited to about 75% max useage, but the owner sure does not own anywhere near 50% much les 75% of the sim for which the resources are tied up for almost 24/7. I really think the bigger problem is camping.

Maybe what should be done is camping systems should be limited to island sims. So if you want to clog a server with camping you do it on your own sim, not in a way that effectivily shuts down everyone else's operations and keeps them from being able to go home or even stay home for fear of making so customers can't check out their products.

With the comments made regarding dwell (words previously used to describe DI's phasing out), camping chairs days are numbered as is.

Don't hurt honest buninessfolk just because they need to -gasp- go work a rt job and can't stay online.

I never said hurt people who could not be on to run business as I know too many that can't, but to assume camping chairs/other types of camping are going to disappear because dwell is disappearing I would not in the least bit bet on that. As has been discussed the camping is not really costing a casino owner who more than makes back their cost on fools who gamble trying to get higher payout.

You suggestion, does however kill anyone in the casino business who cannot stay on as long as they would like. The purpose is to let the machines run..not close them down when you go offline.

The problem with business hours is that the world is round. We are all in different time zones.

Besides, people with plain old houses could have a perpetual crowd, also, if they want; there is no reason that you can't have party after party. On top of that, with new HUD games no doubt in development, soon there will be games in "residences" also.

Voluntary zoning based on theme or building size or whatever might make sense; but it would be nearly impossible to enforce zoning based on activity.

How exactly does only allowing camping setups on island sims mean a casino can't run 24/7. Never did I say I agreed 100% with original post.

I agree the intial zone plan laid out would do that. That is why I was saying the real problem is the camping, itself, nothing else nothing more.

May I suggest you spend a little more time reading and a lot less time assuming and jumping the gun.

Okay I see that everyone is focusing on the "limited" business hours. But lets look at what was said first .

Original post by Merlyn Bailly

"I think there should be two types of zoning.
-- predesignated, permanent zoning: set by LL _ON ENTIRE SIMS_ before they are sold as FL:
C -- commercial
R -- residential (which should be, by definition, SAFE zones)
D -- (for DUAL) mixed commercial & residential
P -- public use, permanent (park/green space, local sandbox)

-- zoning set by those subscribers WHO OWN ENTIRE SIMS

IMHO I think this would resolve some of these issues."

This has been discussed ad nauseum. LL has posted plans to allow resident-run zoning... read up on them

There's a major difference: a Walmart in Miami never gets so many panhandlers in their building that no-one else can enter the state of Florida.

Three years ago it was prim hogs.
Two years ago it was clubs.
One year ago it was Tringo.
Today it's camping chairs.

This, too, shall pass.

Theres no reason a business should be shut out when the owner logs offline. EVER.

Very nice. *Claps*

So - folks could only swim in the pools I have set up to demo for the 2 hours I'm online of a weekday between the hours of Midnight and 2am?

Same for my waterslides...

You could only buy a diving board between those hours too - as they are a split profit scritped vendor.

My beachtowels would fail to animate you... and of course if your swimmer attachment required an update - that too would be out of the question as thats automated.

I think the fact is most of us agree that limited hours are a bad thing, except for on camping which should not be allowed on the main lands in my opinion. They should only be on islands.

The response to Walmart mostly applies to camping.

And this, my friends, is why the history wiki is so important

Well it can apply to anything - thats the problem with 80% of the solutions I've seen on the forums.. people see one problem and then come up with a blanket solution that does more harm than good.

So I point out where these blanket solutions go awry..

It's like the 'guns are bad - push scripts shouldn't be allowed' -- alas - push also makes trampolines, diving boards, and a a myriad of other things work.

I have a much better idea.

Let's zone SL land into "stuff I own and have nigh-total dominion over" and "other places I don't care about".

Oh, wait, we have that!

Yes, we're all in different time zones -- most of the SL membership base is US-based, however, which allows for reasonable scheduling requirements. Those businesses which are high-traffic and use many scripts (in other words, which are resource hogs: CASINOS, NIGHTCLUBS, ZOMBIE CAMPS) should be required to post business hours. The camp chairs at THE EDGE are regularly turned off, so this is certainly possible. If a business owner can't be expected to open & close the doors of his/her/its own business, they do not deserve to own a business, as they have no responsibility and no consideration for the other members of their local community. Only if the business owner is also the OWNER OF THE ENTIRE SIM should they be relieved of this requirement. This would allow other businesses in the area to schedule REAL events like conferences/meetings/exhibitions, and would reduce the local lag factor considerably. I don't think the inconvenience of scheduled business hours for certain types of business compares to the inconvenience inflicted BY THOSE SAME BUSINESSES on the rest of the local SL community, such as those people who want to do business in the same sim as a nightclub or visit a friend's house, but cannot get into the sim due to the business maxing out the sim pop level. As in everything in life, everyone's rights and privileges must be fairly balanced.

Again, people in "plain old houses" who have a "perpetual crowd" are running a nightclub, not a "plain old house". If they draw so many people and block the use of the sim by other residents, they can be designated a public nuisance, due to their abusive monopoly of SL resources. Those who monopolize the sim resources can be told to buy their own sim for their own use or limit their activities so that others may enjoy SL as well.

Re: HUD games:
-- Are these proposed HUD games in "houses" going to draw the max sim pop of 40 avs to the house and block all other access to the entire sim? If so, those who want to play these games should form a group and buy a sim/island for the purpose, rather than monopolize resources that really belong to _ALL_ the residents/users of the sim.
-- Is the noise going to be a public nuisance to their residential neighbors?
-- Are the scripts required by these games going to lag out the sim and reduce their neighbors' equitable use of SL resources?

First off, SL already has preliminary zoning: PG and M sims, as well as an entire "prezoned" separate grid for teens. What I'm proposing is simply as secondary zoning level, predetermined by LL, to make it possible for those who want a HOME to buy a residential lot in a residential-only area if they so choose, or to buy a lot in a dual-use area (residential and/or commercial) if they don't mind having businesses (and possibly very large or resource-hungry businesses) in their neighborhood, and for those who want to establish BUSINESSES to do so without having problems with residential neighbors who just want peace and quiet.

For those who want to design a chunk of SL, and put their own mark on SL's landscape, and/or establish a large, resource-hungry commercial business, a provision in the LAND OPTIONS would allow SIM OWNERS to determine the zoning of their sim either entirely or section-by-section. The zoning established by the original owner of the sim would be permanent, if the sim was later sectioned and sold by lots; only if the entire sim was sold _AS_ an entire sim could the zoning be changed by the new owner.

PUBLIC LAND:
-- To maintain a modicum of "green space" in SL, and to increase the number of areas in which SL landowners may build, SL should establish LL-owned public land as parks &/or local sandboxes... no-development zones in the center of each sim that is not wholly owned by a landowner.
--In each coastal sim, one section of the coastline should be maintained as public land to ensure coastal access for those who want to sail, surf, swim, etc (public "beach" access, essentially).

I doubt your biz draws in enough people at any one time to max out the sim pop leve (40). Furthermore, unless you have so many scripts that your business alone lags out the entire sim, this should not be a problem.

ONE MORE TIME: ONLY THE TYPES OF BUSINESS WHICH ARE EXTREME RESOURCE HOGS (CASINOS, CLUBS, AND ZOMBIE CAMPS) WOULD BE SUBJECT TO THE "SCHEDULED BUSINESS HOURS" REQUIREMENT. Others would be affected _ONLY_ if they become the same kind of resource-hogging public nuisance as the "3C's". If your business does not continually max out the sim pop level or lag out the entire damn sim, the requirement would not apply. However, if the nature of your business changed and suddenly _BECAME_ such a public nuisance, you could be RA'd and ruled as subject to the scheduled hours requirement.

Got it?

Again, enforcement would be ad hoc -- RAs filed by other members would be checked by a Linden and action taken accordingly by suspension of the landowner's account until the problem is resolved.

Not so - a very popular nightclub which us usually in the top 5 of the POPULAR list always hits the max pop level on the weekends... people are usually waiting to be TP'd in.... never mind the other businesses in the sim, no one gets to them because the nightclub people basically lock them out from the sim. And the nightclub in question has only a few designated dance pads.

Again, Jonas, only the RESOURCE HOGS would be subject to the scheduled hours requirement. If you've got a shop or biz that is not script-heavy or does not continually max out the sim pop level, it would not apply.

If you're packing as many machines into your land as possible, then your script-heavy business robs the rest of the local sim residents of equitable use of the sim resources. If you think you and your biz are the only ones with rights to sim resources, you should buy your own sim.

Again, enforcement would be Linden-enforced, via RA reports. Most members should be able to recognize that other SL members have an equitable right to use of server resources. If I want to visit a clothing shop, I should not be blocked out of the sim that business is located in due to the extreme resource requirements of a business designed and run as a RESOURCE HOG. The owner of the clothing store has the right to expect customers to be able to access that store.

Again, only RESOURCE HOGS would be restricted to maintaining scheduled business hours.

This is not unreasonable. What is COMPLETELY UNREASONABLE is for the owners of the RESOURCE HOGS to act as if they are the only people in SL with rights, or that their businesses are to be given special rights compared to all the other local residents and SL users.