Ok, you didn't call me a liar, so I'll respond. That was really my only stipulation.
From: Prokofy Neva
Reitsuki is hilariously arguing against me by this small-town insular argument of "don't you know who Cubey *is*" as if that is really relevant to an economic discussion about how you make a free and liberal economy.
Actually, in this case, it is relevent. When a person activly works
towards a free and competative economy, and you accuse him of just the opposite, I think it is sorta relevent to ask the literal question of if you actually know who your critsising. It has nothing to do with his fame; it has everything to do with if you actually know of what you speak.
From: Prokofy Neva
I don't know have to know who he is nor be intimidated into silence just because he is older and a talent and all the rest.
Again, it has nothing to do with how old he is. You are
the only person bringing that up. Which says something.
It has
everything to do with
what he does. If your going to accuse someone of a thing, it works better if they actually
do the thing you accuse them of. Which in this case is not what is happening.
From: Prokofy Neva
And the next argument he uses is "but he's my friend," as if I'm supposed to never argue with anybody's friend, especially if their friend is THE Cubey Terra.
Hey, go ahead and argue with him. But I don't give a damn who it is, Cubey or Newbie. If it's a friend, or if I see you demonizing and bullying a person who doesn't deserve it, I'm going to stand up for them.
Interesting, though. I never used the "arguement" he's my friend. In point of fact, I
handicapped my arguement by pointing out a
pre-existing bias that would
weaken my arguement in some eyes.
Interesting interperetation you have there.
From: Prokofy Neva
Giving away free items and being helpful and polite is ok, but I think what the oldsters have to look at here is their vaunted notion of themselves as the do-gooders and the saviours of newbiekind. Your freebies sap initiative. They prevent the development of newbie markets.
And this phrase, more than anything else, proves conclusivly that you either:
A) Did not actually read what I wrote
or
B) Did not understand what I wrote
or
C) Have no interest in what I wrote, or the truth, except when it fits your preconcieved notions. When it doesn't, you continue happily on you way none the less.
I'm honestly trying to give you the benefit of the doubt here, PN. I hate trolls, and I hate to assume someone is someone, particularly when they seem to at least have a lot of interest in the topic they discuss. But you do make it hard, sometimes, to keep my faith in that.
From: Prokofy Neva
They help enable this clientalism whereby oldbies "apprentice" newbies in content creation or in buy-sell relationships, and that is stifling, and that is a medieval guild society.
So, from now on, when a newbie asks for help, I'll tell them, "Sorry, Prokofy says that helping newbies enables a medieval guild society, so I can't help you."
Gotcha.
From: Prokofy Neva
There needs to be more competition and more authentic market signals that come from purchases, low or high priced, that can determine value. These aren't abstractions, they are realities -- the newbie first-home market is crap because there are too many freebies that look crappy, bring down sims, and don't facilitate either newbie or oldbie creativity and value of the building trade.
Ok, there are like six different issues in that one little section alone.
I'm not interested in economic theory. Quite frankly, it bores me to tears. So I'll ignore that part, it's not relevent to me in any way.
You paint the entire prefab house market with a damn wide brush, you know. I'll agree some look like crud, but alot look damn nice. Honestly there are prefab houses out there that really impress me. And I don't consider myself a shabby builder by a long shot.
Bringing down sims is a whole different issue. Unless you mean 'bring down the value of'. But that's relative... I'd rather the WORST freebie house be my neighbor than a giant wang, or a huge tower of glowing green cubes, or spining political signs, or something.
Prefabs do indeed stimulate newbie creativity. I was a newbie once. I remember. Prefabs provided a lot of inspiration. Prefabs helped me hone my building skills, figure out tricks to accomplish things more efficiently, how to create odd shapes, etc.
I'm now an "Oldbie". Prefabs still stimulate my creativity and inspiration. I see prefabs, some made by our younger residents, and I still get inspired for new ideas and new shapes to try. And I've tried to make some prefabs. And that's inspiration of the best kind: Raw and free creation.
As for the "Value of the building trade"... Well, that's economic theory, but I'll touch on that a tad: For all of the complaining you do about freebies, I'll tell you this: Stuff sells. Stuff still sells damn well, in fact. The "Value of the trade" has not been harmed.
From: Prokofy Neva
There's some crazy idea that the person who gives away items and gets glory as being a giver-away-of-free-items is not only doing better as a person and getting glory, but is getting sales.
Actually, this "crazy idea" seems to be your
own idea, and it makes perfect sense. Yes. Giving away free stuff makes a person popular and leads to sales. You have admited this, many times, trying to demonize us. This is
basic theory of advertising. Are you asking us to shoot ourselves in the proverbial foot and act like morons and NOT try to boost our sales? That's... well, that's anti-capitalist, and I've never ever seen that term applied accurately before. But thats exactly what that is.
From: Prokofy Neva
But I think that status quo received wisdom really is due for a challenge. There are people who sell their goods, sometimes loads of them for lots of money, and they don't saturate the market with freebies that devalue everything and they make a lot of money and the newbies and the oldbies are happy with their products and have genuine market feedback for their whole sales relationship.
Ok... You can either retract the first part of that statement, or retract your claim that freebies allow us oldbies to establish a strangling monopoly on the market. The two cannot logically co-exist in the same worldview.
From: Prokofy Neva
Yes, giving out a freebie to lure someone into your store is a "nice" thing to do and sets up a long-term relationship that doesn't *have* to be one of slavery but I do raise the problem that so often is *is* one of *lack of choice* and a sense of being railroaded.
Slavery?
You weaken your arguement by even
trying to make that comparison.
From: Prokofy Neva
I'm sorry, but I disagree with you here. The high and might tone you are taking in this discussion, drawing yourself up to full height like grand dragons and saying "Don't you know who we ARE?" is like some drama.
If you continue to claim we do one thing, when in fact we do another, I will continue to ask if you know who we are. Because it honestly sounds like you don't. And I repeat, if you don't know who a person is and what a person does, you have no buisness asserting you DO know who they are and what they do.
This has not one thing in all the world to do with age or status or fettidness or anything. It has to do with being a person who cares to be respectful and honest. It bothers me to see you accuse people of horrible things that they did not do, and assign evil and nefarious motives to things that are nothing of the sort. I try to give
everyone the benefit of the doubt even lacking evidence that they aren't being all wicked and nefarious, and in this case I
have evidence, having been Cubey's friend for over a year now.
It bothers me to see you attacking a friend for motivations and personality traits that I know are just not in his makeup. Ok? If you wanna attack Cubey for being a coffee addict, or being too into "pulp" styling, or anything else he's honestly guilty of, be my guest. I may not like it, but I can accept it. But that's not what happened here.
From: Prokofy Neva
I'm glad you're talented and can make cool vehicles. So let people pay for them. And let them develop them too. You don't need to flood the market with freebies and keep your grip on it. Let it go. You will have sales and they will have sales and it will all be a better place. You don't need to "help" people to be innovative by being in constant tekki wiki educatory mode (often accompanied by condescending mode to anyone who even questions that whole set-up). Just run a school and charge for lessons. And sell vehicles and charge for them. And have a few loss-leaders but don't flood the market with all this freeness like a constant beta test. It is death. It is death for this game, and this vehicle as a WWW for other worlds to appear.
Did it ever occour to you that I
like helping people? I have zero interest in charing players money to help them... I'm not a damn 1-900 number. I
like helping people. I don't agree with your views of it being the "death" of the internet or SL or anything. The linux-derived help-and-be-helped wiki-ish attitude has not killed the internet, quite the opposite. Nor has it stiffled innovation, quite the opposite.
I see the same concepts you do.
I disagree with your conclusions.
From: Prokofy Neva
Huh? How many times do I have to say that I didn't invent the term content baron, I have no gripe or grudge against the "content barons" because I think it is absolutely fine that they charge money and have customers. That's why I don't want so many freebies. When there are less freebies, when there are less oldbies ready to fly into a touchy insult-mode rage every time someone questions their positioning in the game, there will be more content-creators which will create the necessary competition for there to be less "content barons" in the sense of people brooking no competition, and therefore no natural market corrective and incentive for change and improvement.
I never claimed you did invent the term. In fact, I specificly said I
was not getting involved in that arguement. Ok?
From: Prokofy Neva
Libel? Where's the libel? Huh? I'm criticizing the practice of giving away too many freebies. This is an economic posture which I believe is not supportable. I'm urging people to sell their wares. I'm urging them to stop guilt-tripping every mall owner or space-renter as somehow a gouger and not a legitimate service-provider in this game. I'm urging people to stop believing that just because you give something out for free that we are supposed to endlessly bow to you ever after -- have the guts to put it out for sale and see if anyone buys it.
Libel is stating as facts things that are untrue in such a way as to damage or risk damage to a person's reputation. Your assertations on Cubey's personalities and motivations are untrue. Hence, Libel.
From: Prokofy Neva
The Lindens coddled and socialized you all with socialism, and you replicated it by your patronizing and cloying attitude toward newbies. Newbies are people with high-end computers and in many cases $9.95 a month to play this game and don't need the cloying pity that you dish out to them.
What does the system they own have to do with it? I have a bloody high-end system too. So do you, for all I know. Or maybe you are on a bare-bones. What does it
matter? As for "pity"? The hell? Pity? The only "pity" I have for newbies is having to deal with the hellish amounts of dhrama and land-baroning that goes on in world anymore. Well, and the ones unfortunate enough to pick a time right near a version release to sign up, because they get an unfair impression of the game. But I have no "pity" for their abilities or knowledge or any such nonsense. Quite the opposite. I've met newbies that impressed me immensly with what they are able to do. By
any standards, not just as newbies.
From: Prokofy Neva
They can go buy some money on GOM< or save up a bit to buy some things in the game and get themselves started in business in all kinds of niches that could develop when you all can let go the fierce, clinging grip you have on this economy, which you want endlessly to circulate your freebies to maintain your visiblity in world, which you want endlessly to buy your high-end products, which you want endlessly to bow before you in endless gratitude for being the noble types to help newbies. Please, spare us.
*watches the "Reality City Limits" sign with a cautious eye*
I
honestly still have not figured out how you equate "Helping people who ask for help, teaching them the techniques I use, and helping them get established as a vehicle creator that competes against me" as wanting to maintain a "...fierce, clinging grip you have on this economy".
Bow before me? Heh. I'll be happy when you stop trying to incite them to spit in my face, kick me in the junk, and take my wallet, thank you very much.
Please, spare me that.