you dont own the view

Im disapointed once again.

as a poor newbie minion on my first 512 I suffered the humiliation of being told my build blocked their view. 5 weeks of griefing .

and now after plunking down 650 real american dollars to realize my SL dream on an island in deep water... governor linden has put a 4000sq m deep water lot -no land- adjacent to my property line. extortion? oh they got a hot one now.. one that bids with the heart and mind one that just wants to be left alone to build and enjoy friiends one that is willing to pay for it sure Ill buy it being left alone means that much to me

when its all over I could have bought my own island but I hear the servers suck

live on all the anshe chungs of the world live on all the griefers of the world
this is your game - not mine

O.o

Whereabouts is this?

it's true that you don't own the view unless you own the land. but you'll never convince bullies of that. they'll still be demanding their way, without being willing to pay for it, long after sl fades away.

it'd odd that you turned around and put yourself in the same boat by shelling out a lot of cash for too liitle land to control your own environment. seriously, if you have the cash, consider selling the land and purchasing a sim. there's no rush. you have plenty of time to visit islands and consider before you'll be able to sell the land for a decent price, if at all.

islands run on the same types of servers as the mainland. ll got behind with the upgrades believing that servers would last two to three years ha ha ha we couldn't convince them otherwise. they understand now and are working to upgrade on a more reasonable schedule. you'll find that island sims operate fine without fourteen-thousand prims rezzed and five-hundred scripts running. you'll also see owners pushing their sims to the limits and wondering why they're operating so slowly.

i'm rambling a bit but trying to answer your concerns, probably too late since you've already bought land. maybe you'll have nice neighbors. or don't discount the idea of accumulating all of the nonlinden land in your current sim. that will give you disposal of all its recourses and enough inward view to wall off the world.

No, the island servers dont suck. Getting brought up on an older sim server (which might just suck) hopefully is a thing of the past. If you do have a problem, there is the Concierge service, which I have yet to use myself.

I am pretty pleased with my sim. But you just cant plop down 1000 physical objects with another 5000 lighted spinny things and one bazillion scripts, er well I guess you can , but it will have an impact on sim performance.

Private islands are an excellent alternative, if one can afford it.

fen-

It's not just that we "heard" the private islands "suck". There are extensive, detailed complaints right here on these forums by private island owners telling their experiences with bugs, lag, problems, and lack of Linden service. I don't buy the idea that these customers are just guilty of trying to put 14000 prims on their land. They sound convincing to me. I think they have raised enough issues about private islands to give any one pause. I've seen a fair variety of private islands. I've seen really fast, beautiful, non-problematic ones, and I've seen ones with problems. It's too uneven. For someone who wants a little more social life that can come with fly-bys and neighbours, the private island sim, off the grid so to speak, isn't a solution.

I totally support cloudy's lament. He came from a situation of hellacious griefing which he fought against nobly and artistically on his lowly and lonely 512. He went from that situation to getting an island for real US money. And now the Lindens have griefed him with their griefer water, and a Linden has blown him off and told him that's "just the way it is". If there is a Concierge service, I'd like to see it available, online, in-game, and not something on the telephone--I've written to several Lindens asking them if they are Concierges and not heard a thing back. Who is it, and where is it, and why isn't it in-game?

When I use the term "Linden griefer water," I say this consciously, and without sarcasm. I know because the same thing happened to me. The Lindens, through conscious or unconscious evil (one never knows), subdivided a strip of water of some 5000 square meters in Carlisle, next to a large island on the grid I purchased which came as part of Ravenglass. In fact, they subdivided even worst -- the 5000 strip ran all along my island's water, and a tiny parcel just above that surrounded by Linden water was also subdivided and therefore not visible immediately. There was absolutely no earthly need for these odd subdivides of water. Why? Because a) they could have made it Linden water to separate two sims next to each other and made a corridor of water that way and b) because they could have easily tied that water to existing land and water parcels on that neighbouring sim.

When creating the next sim over from an existing sim. it is quite easy to parcel larger or even smaller lots that include mainland and water. There is really no need to be leaving water patches like that not tied to land, stripped alongside the edge of the next sim. It's a recipe for disaster.

When you leave water by itself like that, you open up the doors to enormous types of griefing, and that is why I call it Linden griefing, which is enabling griefers. It means that someone can plunk down a huge tower next to a beautiful island with no qualms, and all kinds of "liberals" will scream about their right to freedom of expression here on the forums. A person buys a beautiful island and water, they may not expect to secure their view on 4 sims in 4 directions, that's nearly impossible, but it is reasonable to expect that they will not have to incur a griefing or ugly build *right alongside* their purchase. It could be the *extreme edge* of *somebody else's purchase* and that way create a kind of buffer zone. Or it could be Linden land.

What happens to strips of water like this far from land, in between two owners on two different sims? Well, from flying around looking at it, I see buyers can put up a casino boat, an ugly flat store, a huge tower, or an ugly spinning for-sale sign, or simply mark the parcel for 10 sq meters, knowing the island owner is more than motivated to pay their resale price to avoid a griefing right smack next to him. When water isn't bought by an existing land-owner, it's rare that water is bought only by someone who wants to just put prims and a boat on it -- because it can be auctioned for cheaper, and sold by Anshe for less, it opens up the door to a world of extortionist building.

4000 or 5000 square meters could be easily tied to an existing land/water parcel. There doesn't seem to be any hard and fast law about sizes of land on the auction, in terms of tier. Indeed, I noticed with cloudy's island that the land was deliberately subdivided just a few meters over tier to induce him to go into the next tier level. This blatant disregard for higher paying customers, trying to milk just a little more out of them and grief them just a little harder to induce them into paying the next tier level and then buying the view into the next sim is really reprehensible. Indeed, it is not really "buying the view" which is well nigh impossible in SL, but *buying the immediate proximity in the next sim*.

I would urge the Lindens to attach this 4000 meters to other parcels of land and water they currently have at the auction and to end this pernicious practice. That seems to be the responsible thing to do, instead of having to extort an existing island owner into buying a strip of water along side them *in the next sim* where it has no prim value.

And in general, the Lindens have to rethink how they demarcate these kinds of parcels to avoid those kind of griefer strips.

And to all of you feted ones snorting and hooting about people thinking they can't buy view, or thinking the beloved Lindens could never induce extortionist prices on their auction, please think of an island with a stupid strip of water running right next to it that serves no other purpose than griefing. Then you will "get it". There is no earthly need to do this. It is WRONG. It was done to me, and I sucked it up and bought the high-priced water and lived with the Linden griefing and resellers' griefing. I did not complain. I continue not to complain about my griefed water. But when I see this happening to someone else, by God, I will complain hard. It is not right.

Can't resist, can you?

"If I get the attacks in now and ridicule their argument in advance, I can say I told you so and snort and hoot as I dismiss their reply! wee!"

I hate to break it to you Prokofy, but you are as Feted as they come, you just come from a different Inner Core than the people you are always accusing of it

I'm sorry, can someone translate the original post for me? I'm having a hard time understanding how water can be "bad".

if land is just a little over tier the answer is simple, create a group (with some alts if need be) and make it group land, that gives you a 10% bonus, on good sized parcels often that extra 1-2000 sqm will be more than enough to keep you from having to tier

Yeah, well...why should someone pay Linden $9.95 times 2 in two more premium accounts just to hold land in a group that is *a little teeny bit* over tier??? come on.

This was tried by the way then abandoned for lots of reasons. Chief of which, the Lindens just haven't ironed all the kinks out of group land as a mechanism.

well actually you wouldn't need to have the other 'group member' accounts be premim at all.. the 9.95 would be one time only.. and i don't know.. if you are talking getting a 33000 sqm plot well if you ask me paying $19.90 once, is a more economical decision than paying the extra $70 every single month, forever... but then what do i know

Oh for goodness fetid sake. Give it a fetid rest! If you can't make a fetid point without involving boring old fetid bipartisan political cliches then you've already lost the fetid argument.

Any chance of a new fetid adjective as well?

ta

the point being made here is that the almighty god linden needs to rethink the way they chop
these new sims up. dont bother replying to this thread with anymore griefer remarks

Excellent point cloudy. Perhaps someone can think of some guideliness and pass them on to LL. They don't have to deal with the consequences of their dividing up, so some experienced players could probably provide excellent guidance to them.

I'm kind of curious... if you own an island that borders another sim, just put up a giant wall near the edge of the sim. On your side, paint a pretty view. On the back, toss up a Picasso or Dali (or a few.) You see what you want, and the griefers see more art, which is what they claim to be trying to promote, so certainly they could have no complaint...

LL has a lot of stuff to do besides parcel perfect pieces of land for YOU. the parcels in a sim are well advertised before you bid. don't bid if you don't like what you see. LL can't read your mind and figure out jimmy need 4096 right here and timmy needs a 512 right there.

if LL was focused on making perfect lots for YOU, then people would complain about the repetitiveness of terrain and the lack of vistas and blah blah blah.

that is why there are land traders who are willing to take in odd shaped odd sized parcels and reshape them for you upon request. i prefer LL focus on creating a better medium and compelling topography. but i also want to sell you my land!

No, no Mr. Wu. It is MY land they should be buying!



BB

P.S. What conspiracy?

my first parcel of land, one of my neighbors built an eyesore of a building, but, being a kind soul, built a wall around it completely painted as an idyllic forest. was nice to look at, and at eye level, you never even saw the eyesore. However, I understand points on both sides of this argument. I don't like looking at huge monstrosities of a build when at my home. But, my neighbors bought and paid for their land, just as I did, so who am I to complain if they want a large piece of crap sitting on their land? I just do what I can, and that is.......I look at the other 3 sides of my property for a view, I positioned my house so that when I'm sitting there, enjoying a cocktail or 20, I'm looking over a serene valley, which is owned by someone who decided to never build anything in this lifetime apparently, because it's been sitting empty for months now.

Jauani, you don't get this particular situation, which happens to be identical to one I had, and another one I saw as well. And why should you get the Linden's griefing water, and grief the next buyer with it, who will in turn really grief the island owner?

Sure, you buy an island on a grid in a sim at auction, by bidding on it. But you *cannot know* what will be in the next sim next to your lovely island because *the Lindens didn't make and display that island yet*. You are buying in a new sim, next to a void, and it's a total crap shoot what the Lindens might put up, and then who buys it after that. Who the hell knows how the Lindens make decisions to put up things like "railroad bridges" or what makes them make a basin instead of an open ocean, or why they divide something up among sims in stupid ways, but the fact is, they are making this land without real consideration of end users and they should *stop that*. It's inconsiderate, if not evil (if deliberate). They need to listen to some of the feedback.

I don't want them to make identical cookie cutter sims that are all cute and ready for Alpine villages or whatever. But frankly, if the customer base says they want all cute little inlets for beach houses or snowy slopes for Alpine villges, let the Lindens make a thousand of them to satisfy the customer, and then throw in a few red-soil Marscapes now for all those wacky tekkies, that's fine, but really, whose world is this? The customers? Or the Lindens? The way you get a million people is if you are willing to say that it can be the customers' choice, not what you think is esethetic and non-repetitive.

When the Lindens have already sold an island on the grid, when they are sitting down to draft the next sim that goes right next to that island, it would only be common courtesy to avoid putting 4000 or 5000 meter strips of water dividing up that sim from their Linden water, and the next sim. They could have their Linden water occupy that strip, and tie water to the mainland so it can be sold as a whole. It's just one example of thinking of the end user a little more that is missing. This is not about "Timmy wants this, Billy wants that". The idea that they can happily outsource this parceling chore to land traders like yourself is laudable, and that's a great feature of the game, but there isn't much to be done when they have *already* made their cut and put a silly and potentially griefing thing like 4000-meter thin strips of water right cheek-by-jowl next to an expensive island, making the view on one direction anyway a total washout.

All it does it means that YOU can buy that 4000 strip and sell it for a young fortune to somebody desperate to preserve their initial large investment. So cloudy and others are right to complain. The Lindens should think about what is on the sim behind them that they just made, what is next to the sim they are making. Indeed, looking sometimes at their marking of Linden water and land, it often seems to me that we are dealing with a group of colour-blinded dyslexic deranged monkeys unloosed on CAD tools, not sensible and educated young men and women making land for the Lindens.

you know one thing - that you don't know what is coming next. it was your/cloudy's gamble to buy this land. similarly i bought up all the parcels of pimushe not knowing that what would pop up next door in sutherland. if you want assurances, buy land in established areas. or better yet, sell your gridded land and buy a few islands, make your own grid and live happily ever after running a rental resort.

Yep, I realize that. I don't mind it. I like surprises like the dam in Sutherland. Other surprises aren't so happy, like finding you have to portage boats now instead of boating to all the next water sims.

Buying land in established areas is one secret, like Brown and Boardman. There are many reclamation projects to be had here, but it would require convincing the Lindens to upgrade the crappy servers on those lands.

I just don't harken to the idea of buying land off the grid. I'm just not done suffering yet on the grid. Let me suffer more on the grid, Jauani. I don't want to be on a private island. If I wanted to be on a private island I wouldn't play SL, it wouldn't be as fun. I like to be able to talk to my fellow human beings who fly by.

i feel similarly about island sims. island sims don't have the same publicness as the grid, where anyone can drop in on you unbenowest to you and sometimes even to them. it offers a kind of spontaneity and openended narrative to the game that island sims do not.

part of that openendedness is the mystery of what is beyond the next horizon. there is a literal expression of the metaphor of the unexplored frontier. so embrace it or reject it. but why dilute it?

Because as video game players we are entitled to entitlement!

very nice!

Everyone once in awhile, the feted inner core comes up with a hallmark slogan the epitomizes the ethos of the feted inner core, so that I don't even have to make this stuff up!

Yes, I like the open frontier, Jauani, even though I do catch myself thinking now sometimes when I look at new sims: haven't I seen this before? Isn't this going to be the same old story? Telehub-mall-boxes-struggling newbies with cabins who don't realize what will hit them-lag-club-slag heap?

But then you turn a corner and see something like Sutherland and it restores your faith in the game. Although I'm well aware that for some, seeing a hydroelectric dam construction like RL will really rain on their parade.

And really...are the Lindens ever going to put water sluicing down that thing, even a little?

Sometimes when I look at the bright afternoon brittle sky of the Linden world, I think, this is great, I hope it lasts forever, and other times, I feel the metallic taste in my mouth of bitter disillusionment with a humankind that creates only perfect brittle sunny afternoon skies...

OK, but the point is, you don't have to be entitled to entitlement to expect that your $675 piece of virtual estate island should not have to be griefed up by somebody who decides a megatower would go just perfect on that little strip of water. The water can be tied to something else more responsably.