A proposal for the management of land in Cass
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Charlotte Gillespie
2 - 0 Lindens
Join date: 19 Nov 2004
Posts: 1,101
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02-01-2005 03:23
We have recently acquired approximately 19,000sqm of land in the region of Cass, a newly-created area in the east, containing a large amount of land for sale for prices which are, on average, much lower than in the more established areas.
The land acquired consists of a large forest, part of a hillside bordering onto a neighbouring region, and a flat area which stretches to a Linden road. We propose that this land should be managed by a co-operative group. The current draft proposal is as follows:
- the land will be handed over to group ownership - a membership fee of L$2,500 will be charged; the existence of a weekly or monthly rent in addition to this is yet to be decided - upon payment of the membership fee, and subject to agreement to comply with by-laws which will be set down, the right to build in any part of the land will be granted
The benefits of this system to builders will be manifold: the membership fee charged will be no greater than the current average price of a 512sqm plot, but will offer far greater flexibility to those who wish to pursue projects requiring a larger area of land. The system of by-laws in place will ensure that builds which exist to the detriment of the area will be removed, and there will be no danger of waking up to find your little 512 plot has been dwarfed by a much larger build. It will protect at least this corner of this region from the “512 syndrome” – large tracts of land being purchased and turned into countless 512sqm plots with little hope of any sense of community being created.
I put this proposal to the forums in general, and await responses on how it could possibly be improved.
Thanking you in advance, Charlotte Gillespie London
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Hiro Pendragon
bye bye f0rums!
Join date: 22 Jan 2004
Posts: 5,905
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02-01-2005 03:27
From: Charlotte Gillespie I put this proposal to the forums in general, and await responses on how it could possibly be improved.
By moving it to the Land/Economy forum or the Land for sale forum where it belongs?
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Charlotte Gillespie
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Join date: 19 Nov 2004
Posts: 1,101
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02-01-2005 03:31
From: Hiro Pendragon By moving it to the Land/Economy forum or the Land for sale forum where it belongs? I have the monopoly on pedantry on this forum.
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Hiro Pendragon
bye bye f0rums!
Join date: 22 Jan 2004
Posts: 5,905
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02-01-2005 03:34
From: Charlotte Gillespie I have the monopoly on pedantry on this forum. Sorry, looks like Judge Harold Green came to town and said, "Denied!"
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Charlotte Gillespie
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Join date: 19 Nov 2004
Posts: 1,101
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02-01-2005 03:36
From: Hiro Pendragon Sorry, looks like Judge Harold Green came to town and said, "Denied!" The topic of this thread is "A proposal for the management of land in Cass", not "Hiro Pendragon is bored at work".
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Hiro Pendragon
bye bye f0rums!
Join date: 22 Jan 2004
Posts: 5,905
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02-01-2005 03:39
From: Charlotte Gillespie The topic of this thread is "A proposal for the management of land in Cass", not "Hiro Pendragon is bored at work". Ah, so you admit the topic is of interest for the "land & economy" forum, then. Excellent. A Linden will be along in a while to move the thread if they also agree with you.  Look, no offense. I like entrepeneurs. I like people adding value to land they are reselling / renting. I like people creating micro-zoning areas. I just want my forum to be organized. Is that so much to ask? 
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Willow Zander
Having Blahgasms
Join date: 22 May 2004
Posts: 9,935
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02-01-2005 03:39
Can it be Willow Zander is bored at work  Good plans tho Lotte  and the land is simply bootiful
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Charlotte Gillespie
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Join date: 19 Nov 2004
Posts: 1,101
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02-01-2005 03:44
From: Hiro Pendragon Ah, so you admit the topic is of interest for the "land & economy" forum, then. I deliberately posted it in General, rather than Land and Economy, because I feel that the latter consists of the same old faces arguing the same old points in a circular fashion. I wanted some fresh ideas from different names. 
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Willow Zander
Having Blahgasms
Join date: 22 May 2004
Posts: 9,935
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02-01-2005 03:53
From: Hiro Pendragon Ah, so you admit the topic is of interest for the "land & economy" forum, then. Excellent. A Linden will be along in a while to move the thread if they also agree with you.  Look, no offense. I like entrepeneurs. I like people adding value to land they are reselling / renting. I like people creating micro-zoning areas. I just want my forum to be organized. Is that so much to ask?  YOUR forum?? 
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Maxx Monde
Registered User
Join date: 14 Nov 2003
Posts: 1,848
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02-01-2005 04:33
Its nice to see a large plot like that not get 'Chunged'.
Good luck with your project!
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Charlotte Gillespie
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Join date: 19 Nov 2004
Posts: 1,101
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02-01-2005 05:19
I encourage people to ask questions about the proposal on this public forum, but if anyone has private queries, or other messages that they'd rather not send publicly, I've set up an email account: [email]cass@mcrmail.com[/email] I thank you. 
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Walker Spaight
Raving Correspondent
Join date: 2 Jan 2005
Posts: 281
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02-01-2005 05:27
Charlotte - I like your idea a lot. However, I think it would benefit from an enhanced level of clarity and explication. For instance: From: Charlotte Gillespie We have recently acquired approximately 19,000sqm of land We == who? From: Charlotte Gillespie the land will be handed over to group ownership - a membership fee of L$2,500 will be charged; the existence of a weekly or monthly rent in addition to this is yet to be decided (a) I'm assuming (though it's not entirely clear) that my L$2,500 buys me membership in the group, and thus part ownership of the land . . . ? Or does it just buy me tenancy? And if I'm also paying rent--why? Would I also be required to allocate some of my tier to the group? It's a good price (if this is a mature sim), but it leaves some questions open. (b) I don't know who in their right minds is going to make a decision on a project like this without knowing up front whether they're going to be charged rent. (c) What's the mechanism for leaving the group? From: Charlotte Gillespie the right to build in any part of the land will be granted It's not clear to me whether a 512 is set aside for my personal use, or if "the right to build in any part of the land" means the whole sim is going to be treated like a sandbox. And in either case, how are these things going tobe enforced? I look forward to seeing how things develop and I wish you luck.
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Charlotte Gillespie
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Join date: 19 Nov 2004
Posts: 1,101
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02-01-2005 05:42
From: Walker Spaight Charlotte - I like your idea a lot. However, I think it would benefit from an enhanced level of clarity and explication. For instance:
We == who? Thank you for your questions - this is exactly what I'm looking for! "We" refers to the current people involved in the project, but it's mainly just little me at present. From: someone (a) I'm assuming (though it's not entirely clear) that my L$2,500 buys me membership in the group, and thus part ownership of the land . . . ? Or does it just buy me tenancy? And if I'm also paying rent--why? Would I also be required to allocate some of my tier to the group? It's a good price (if this is a mature sim), but it leaves some questions open. Good question. I'd rather not have to charge at all - but the L$2,500 is basically a donation to the workings of the group. Like it or not, Linden charges me tier to the tune of US$125 a month and while I'm not in this to make money, I have to recoup a proportion of the losses incurred somehow. As this proposal is in rather a nascent state at present, the fee has not been exactly fixed - I'm trying to gauge reactions before I proceed further. From: someone (b) I don't know who in their right minds is going to make a decision on a project like this without knowing up front whether they're going to be charged rent. Again, I apologise for the vagueness of the original post, but we're still working out the mechanism for collecting rent, if any, and how to recoup some of the tier fee paid. It's nowhere near open for members yet, and these decisions will be made, and set out in stone on a website before it does open. From: someone (c) What's the mechanism for leaving the group? On leaving the group, I envisage that around 50-75% of the membership fee paid would be refunded. From: someone It's not clear to me whether a 512 is set aside for my personal use, or if "the right to build in any part of the land" means the whole sim is going to be treated like a sandbox. And in either case, how are these things going tobe enforced? Members will not have a 512 plot set aside for their own use, nor will the area be treated like a giant sandbox. It's a different idea of managing land, based on trust, co-operation and common sense rather than draconian boundary rules as is the case in much of SL. The by-laws will state the character of builds allowed in the area and general rules of living on the land. The concept won't be to everyone's taste - some people like to have their plot and nothing else allowed - but for those who do want to live their Second Life in a more communal fashion, the option is now here! From: someone I look forward to seeing how things develop and I wish you luck. Many thanks. 
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Catherine Cotton
Tis Elfin
Join date: 2 Apr 2003
Posts: 3,001
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02-01-2005 06:37
From: Hiro Pendragon By moving it to the Land/Economy forum or the Land for sale forum where it belongs? Agreed it doesn't belong in this Forum.
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Charlotte Gillespie
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Join date: 19 Nov 2004
Posts: 1,101
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02-01-2005 06:59
From: Catherine Cotton Agreed it doesn't belong in this Forum. Who asked you to: a) read this thread b) take the trouble to post on it
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Catherine Cotton
Tis Elfin
Join date: 2 Apr 2003
Posts: 3,001
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02-01-2005 07:05
GEEZ!! 
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Charlotte Gillespie
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Join date: 19 Nov 2004
Posts: 1,101
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02-01-2005 07:26
From: Catherine Cotton GEEZ!!  For god's sake, do you feel a compulsion to spam every thread which so much as mentions land or money in passing? We all know how you feel - and your posts add less than nothing to a discussion.
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Catherine Cotton
Tis Elfin
Join date: 2 Apr 2003
Posts: 3,001
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02-01-2005 07:31
um all i did was agree with another poster. isn't that allowed in the forums anymore? 
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Willow Zander
Having Blahgasms
Join date: 22 May 2004
Posts: 9,935
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02-01-2005 07:33
*grabs both of you by the scruff of the neck and knocks your heads together* QUIT IT!!! How am I sposed to keep up my Forum Troll Queen Title if you two keep at it, Paris will NEVER keep me as her Forum Troll Queen if you don't stop 
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Charlotte Gillespie
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Join date: 19 Nov 2004
Posts: 1,101
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02-01-2005 07:33
From: Catherine Cotton um all i did was agree with another poster. isn't that allowed in the forums anymore?  I welcome constructive discussion of the original and subsequent posts related to the original topic only. Any further nonsense from this individual will be ignored.
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Catherine Cotton
Tis Elfin
Join date: 2 Apr 2003
Posts: 3,001
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02-01-2005 07:35
I take that is a NO, interesting...
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Kate Hanks
AFK Queen
Join date: 17 Oct 2003
Posts: 337
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02-01-2005 07:41
Charlotte- This sounds like a really cool idea! I have a couple of questions. I'm sans coffee at the moment, and apologize if you've answered these already.  1) Do you have any sort of "theme" in mind for the builds (i.e. - residential, business or both?). 2) Who decides what builds are considered "detriment" to the area? 3) If you have to join the group to be part of the project, will you also have to donate/allocate part of your land tier to the group?? Again, it sounds very interesting! Good luck with it.
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Charlotte Gillespie
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Join date: 19 Nov 2004
Posts: 1,101
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02-01-2005 07:53
From: Kate Hanks Charlotte- This sounds like a really cool idea! I have a couple of questions. I'm sans coffee at the moment, and apologize if you've answered these already.  Thankyou! It's actually really strange to talk to someone all the way in California sitting at a desk in Crewe! I'll answer them as best I can. From: someone 1) Do you have any sort of "theme" in mind for the builds (i.e. - residential, business or both?). There'll be a general character of the area - "minor" builds only, I'm thinking. There'll be houses, for sure, and I'm hoping to encourage small businesses who are starting up, need somewhere individual to put their first shop, and want to get more flexibility than just buying a random 512sqm plot somewhere. Non-profit SL groups will also be encouraged to build here. It should look at least partially realistic, meaning no buildings floating in mid air, and generally normal colours. From: someone 2) Who decides what builds are considered "detriment" to the area? It'll be based generally on common-sense and co-operation amongst the residents. Once the area is established, its character will be obvious to any visitor, and they'll know what they can and can't build. Most things will be OK - but huge builds that take up vast areas of the land, big box clubs and malls, and random vendors or gambling machines dotted around will have to go. From: someone 3) If you have to join the group to be part of the project, will you also have to donate/allocate part of your land tier to the group?? I'm planning to keep the full tier payments on my own account for simplicity's sake. The membership fee and/or rent will be in lieu of group tier donations. It prevents arguments along the lines of "I've given 4000 tier, I want to be able to take up more room than Joe Bloggs who's given 1024 tier!" From: someone Again, it sounds very interesting! Good luck with it. Cheers. 
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Catherine Cotton
Tis Elfin
Join date: 2 Apr 2003
Posts: 3,001
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02-01-2005 08:01
Ok question after I read your statement twice and did not see it mentioned.
How are you going to manage lag in that area?
We all know one bad seed could ruin your development. Also do you have the by laws written up yet? If so could you also post them. Believe it or don't this sounds interesting. Simular to what Lordfly has published in the land forums, maybe you two could get together and brain storm some ideas?
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Charlotte Gillespie
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Join date: 19 Nov 2004
Posts: 1,101
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02-01-2005 08:18
From: Catherine Cotton Ok question after I read your statement twice and did not see it mentioned.
How are you going to manage lag in that area?
We all know one bad seed could ruin your development. Also do you have the by laws written up yet? If so could you also post them. Believe it or don't this sounds interesting. Simular to what Lordfly has published in the land forums, maybe you two could get together and brain storm some ideas? Thanks for your questions! I'm having a go at writing the by-laws relating to the land right now, and I'll be able to present at least a draft in the next couple of days. As for lag, the general character of the builds permitted on the land will see to it that excessive lag will not be created. There is to be a bit in the by-laws saying that scripts which produce lag would be removed.
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