Consider Estate owners as server admins.

Won't work. Theres no way to know that an avatar within that "warning area" even intends to go into the land (and if there's no discrimination, no one would want the land on the sim border due to the constand "warning! warning!" popups while they wander around their backyard). Not to mention that most private islands don't border a damnable thing.

i mean when you try to tp in

the point i was trying to make was that the powers you're asking for will give EO's control over avatars, not their estates, and while i can think of good uses for all of them, i felt i should point out what you pointed out, that you're paying for the estate, not my avatar...

Teleports don't work in that fassion. Ever noticed the "connecting to region" message? That's when the first data from the new location starts coming in.

Well itsnot me that wanted a warning.

And when i pay for an estate i pay for a piece of server software which mean i more or less expect all aspects of what this piece of software do in under my control (minus messing with account balances and inventory of course)

Maybe you shouldn't pay for it then, because that's not what you get.

An avatar is the reflection of a client owned by someone else. Just because it connects to your server does not make it yours, in any way, shape, or form. Not even the teeniest, tiniest, most minuscule way. If you don't like the avatar, you can remove it from your server - but there your rights end.

no it doesn't make it mine, however it makes any action transiting through my server subject to my rules.
That's how it work on the web last time i checked.

That's where it comes down to estate rules. If the av doesn't follow the rules you remove them. They are by no means capable of being controlled by you.

First of all, SL is not "the web", not by a long shot.

The avatar is subject to your rules - if it violates it, you can kick it out. Period.

My avatar is provided by Linden Lab. I pay them for the right to have my avatar the way I like it. At no time do you enter into the equation... I pay them, they provide me a service, and you are nowhere to be seen. Going back to your "who pays the bills" thing... I pay the bills on my avatar. Me. Not you. You have absolute power to shape your sim anyway you want it - you pay for it. I have similar *absolute* power over my avatar. You don't pay for it, you have no say or control over it. Don't like it, kick it out. You don't get to adjust it to your liking. It's not yours, and it's not part of your sim.

And no, thats not "how it is" on the web, not in the way your thinking. You're asking for the ability to tamper with the clients settings, basically. You want to be able to uninstall my Firefox extensions and put in your own. No, you don't have that right.

Or to use another analogy... You can own a private business. You can enforce a dress code, and ask people to leave who aren't dressed as you see fit. You can not, however, forcibly strip a person naked and redress them as you see fit.

having an avatar isn't a paid service from linden labs.

However on the other side peoples have the right to fly using tools i didn't allow in the sim, they also have the right to spam to death because i happen to have left build on for the needs of a game zone?

I do not ask the right to tamper with your client program. But i ask for the right to be able to validate or not what your avatar do in my sim, with as much granularity as possible.

After all the act of moving, flying, jumping, attaching an object is an action that require the acceptation from the sim (and sometimes it bug and it doesn't let you).

Let s take again the web server analogy, i can prevent you to access certain contents based on rules (cookies, sessions, etc...) i can also redirect you to another address (URL rewriting), i can also accept or not your inputs, but it has always been alright because if you don't like my site you can leave it at any moment.

I can also prevent you to access it regardless of your login name (Ip range ban).

In that regard, in SL the avatar is a server side asset, it is a representation of your connection. Thus, the way it is handled is completely left to the sim software (excepted teleportation, money and maybe IMs.



But okay, lets say you keep the integrity of your avatar, but on the other side, how am i supposed to detect if you follow the rules, other than by human interactions? i still would need a whole set of new detection functions.

Sure it is. It comes with an account that I'm paying money for. Regardless of if you can get an avatar for free or not, the fact remains I'm paying money for this account, and the avatar is part of the account.

And paid or not, its a service from Linden Lab. My avatar is a contract between me and Linden Lab, just like your sim is a contract between you and Linden Lab. Your contract does not trump my contract.



Kick and ban. Problem solved.



"as much granularity as possible" doesn't stretch so far as to choosing what my avatar wears, sorry.



Right. You can kick or ban. Not tampering with my settings and uninstalling plugins (or stripping my avatar naked)



Actually, this isn't wholly true. Your avatar is intimately connected with the asset server as well as the server that hosts the sim - thats where all your clothes and attachments and such are stored.



If the only way you can detect someone breaking the rules is by script functions that don't exist, honestly I don't think its too much of a concern.

I love feature this suggestion and it makes perfect sense.

A had a recent issue with an indivual - and the Lindens kept resolving it without anything being done...even though it was a clear and serious violation of the ToS. So I contacted a Linden friend of mine, and I won't name which one told me this. But he said, "Yeah, that account should be suspended, SL is growing so huge that it's getting harder and harder to police it."

So - the next best thing would be allowing Estate Owners to start having more power to do something about it. We pay 200 - 300 dollars a month, we should be given more power than merely owning land. We should be the liasons for our residents that stay on our land.

It would certainly downsize the number of abuse reports they receive, and make it easier to control violations that occur in SL.

Lets say you make a rule that says that everyone in your sim must be human/human shaped. Meaning "no furries" or whatever.

I come in in my dragon av--a bunch of attached prims.

How do you make a server-side scripting funtion that will WITHOUT FAIL detect that I am no human?

First pass: you check the name of each attachment for keywords, such as "arm," "leg," or "wing" (for the sake of argument). This works REALLY well until I rename all my attachments to non-sense like "helmet," "right hand sword" and things like that, but leave the folder in my inventory alone, so I still know what it is--the sim has no access to my inventory folders. Now what? How do you change the function to detect non-humans then?

You can't. It requires in-person interaction that a computer is as of yet incapable of simulating.

Your functions are so generic that they could be used for ungodly aweful things, but limiting their abilities to do what you want without possibility of greif makes them useless to anyone else.

Considering the pretty big potential loss an estate owner can suffer in case he really abuse these tools, i don't think the griefing is too much of a concern.

just like how that stops crime in rl right?

So, instead of being banned, like he should, he spends a boat load of money, and loses customers/visitors until all 1 million users find, and leave, his land he goes bankrupt and then wanders around as a normal person again.

Yeah. That's fair.

I'd rather be able to report them for abuse and see them banned.

Why would they get banned its their own server.

If you enter in a private island you came there voluntary.

try telling that to the judge after raping a girl that voluntarily came on to your rl land and see how far you get

Actually, all Linden rules still apply in private sims. This has been established several times.

It's not "their server". It's Linden's server. You're just leasing it, and there are as such are subject to any rule they care to enforce.

... you already always have the option to evict and or ban me. Or even ::gasp:: communicate with me re: local standards. So why seek controls over my avatar?

mainly because it's easier if the sim rules are complex (a team based wargame, or a race based RPG) and that considering the few checks we can perform on avatars (can't detect clothes currently ) we can't automate it properly (i would rather script it than be controlling what happen in the sim 24/7 by myself)

If you have a wargame or race based RPG, limit access to a group, and interview potential members before adding them to it. Asking for default editing of others' avatars as a landowner benefit is just ... over-kill and inappropriate.

Can you explain why?
What power does it give that the estate owner hasn't already (in manual way)?

If you want to stay in a sim an estate owner can virtually request anything from you, in what is it different of having a keyring of function to do it automatically (and if you don't like it you just leave the sim and every changes are cancelled)