Isn't It Time LL implemented Camping Chair Limits?

Isn't it time for LL to implement camping chair limits for each resident according to the amount of land they own on a sim?

For instance, you can be allowed the following use of camping chair limits commensurate with the amount of land you own ...

The whole sim = 40 camping chairs or the sim avatar limit (40 per mainland sims).

Half of the sim = 20 camping chairs.

One-Quarter sim = 10 camping chairs.

One-Eigth sim = 5 camping chairs.

One-Sixteenth sim = 3 camping chairs.

One-Thirty-second sim = 2 camping chairs.

513sqm - One-Thirty-second sim = 1 camping chair.

512sqm plot = not allowed the use of camping chairs.

Is this unreasonable?

It only seems fair that every resident should have fair use of the sim's resources according the amount of land they own. Although it is true that an incident of resource abuse is abuse reportable, LL will routinely allow residents owning as little as 3000-4000sqm plot of land the use of 10 camping chairs.

In other words, LL supports a resident paying for roughly 1/16th of a sim to use 25% of its avatar allowable resource. So that conceivably, four residents owning 4000sqm land with 10 camping chairs each, can monopolize an entire sim avatar limit and tough luck for the remaining residents who own the rest of the three-quarters of the sim. This is really unfair and its really mind boggling that with the influx of camping chairs a policy that is fair to all mainland residents has not yet been implemented by LL.

In exploring mainland sims one can see a direct correlation between unsold land and their proximity to locations with camping chairs. People simply want nothing to do with this land so long as they know that LL will not protect their interest by implementing some type of policy that is fair to all mainland land owners. Worse yet, those of us who have owned our land for a long time to suddenly have a couple of new residents move in and set up 10-15 camping chairs each, thereby rendering the sim henceforth totally worthless. Doesn't anyone else care at all about this?

All private islands/Estates already have similar policies in their covenants that address this issue. Why doesn't LL implement a similar policy to these popular covenants for mainland land owners? And what alternatives, short of running away from the problem, do you think we as residents have to combat this problem?

This is a really obvious unfair problem in SL and it is not going to go away.

Any suggestions, short of giving up and saying buy your own sim or rent from someone who does?

All these things make sense.

However I dont think Linden Labs has any Motivation to eliminate camping.

Camping helps them by increasing both the number online, and the number of accounts signed up for.

Colette there is nothing in that post that mentions anything about eliminating camping chairs

Ohh right --

Ill fix it

Theres no motivation for them to Reduce camping

See the end of SVC-63.

The best way to get ride of ‘camping chairs’ is to deflate their usefulness. As a resident , you can boycott any business or establishment that you TP into that you see have campers on land. Since the ‘camping chair’ is a avenue of business created by the residents, Linden Labs really can not do anything about them. Camping chairs are not cheap for the owner of the land and if the owner finds he is shelling out more lindens on campers than what he is making, I’m sure he will get them out.

Since camping chairs are used to increase traffic numbers in the search function, one thing that LL could do is change the search function to search only ONE keyword that the owner of the business/plot would have to determined when he address his ‘about land’ window. Something like this would make finding things easier for all and would effectively render camping of any kind useless. An example would be - if your primary item for sale are clothing - clothing would be your primary keyword - if you sell jewelry, jewelry would be your keyword - if you owned a mall - mall would be your keyword, etc.

I personally do not do any business with any store/mall, etc, if I see there are campers there.

*moves to feature suggestion*

SIGNED and Stamped with my tail!

The original posters ideas are good ones.

So is eliminating Traffic numbers entirely to reduce camping.

So would be improving the idle logg off so its not so easy to get around.

I dont know about the keyword restrictions - I dont like limiting peoples ability to advertize.

Still I do think its Moot.

Linden Labs has even listed Camping as an occupation in their offical guide.

Thing is - even with the often touted Police blotter entry (far as I know a single entry) - I do not see Linden Labs interested in reducing camping.

Or a host of other things which drive many of us crazy.

This would only effect the find places function. If you put in the word 'tattoo' under shopping - you get casinos and malls first.

This is where 'classified' advertising would take off as that isn't traffic driven.

good point - I get burned by this also.

Perhaps the search could go in the ORDER you list keywords

Such that since your a Tatoo shop youd order Tatoo first

While a casino would have Tatoo 8th and this would apear below you, but with all the other places that list tatoo 8th after that in traffic order

Not that there are casinos anymore *cough*

Good ideas, but no way to enforce them, sadly.
I too would like to see camping reduced or eliminated, though I don't expect it to happen any time soon (and yes, I do use them, that I have no issue with--if a landowner wants to throw money at people then why shouldn't I catch some of it?)

Hi Draco Im just curious, at 2L per every ten minutes of camping that land owner is throwing you 12L per hour. Ok now Im far from a math genius but doesn't that earn you about 4 cents per hour?

Please don't tell me you really believe earning 4 cents to sit on a camping chair for an hour is a good value?

4 pennies an hour??!!!

*sigh

I wouldnt' want to go to the full sim with 40 camping chairs...


Oh wait, I wouldn't be able to go, it'd be full

Four pennies buys you a download from your PC. Or a cheap t-shirt. Maybe even a box full of recycled freebies. Getting to sit around with 30 zombies for an hour, PRICELESS.

and all those 30 zombies are on accounts in the same room in a Virtual money farm making $1.20 an hour

Pretty much. I only run 4 accounts myself (5 if I am feeling adventurous), so US$1/day/avatar + interest (currently US$1.35/day).

And if you look elsewhere I have already stated how given an large enough supply of camping chairs one can actually live decently without doing real work, all it takes is 1 SL capable machine and 18 months. The only work involved is keeping all those accounts in a chair.

hahaha again with living off camping chairs! doesnt anyone pay electric bills.Oh yea there is no extrea cost in power useage is ther how can any justifty keeping a computer on 24 hours a day. The power uses does not = the payout.

In the US it does not 4$ a day to keep a computer powered up. Which is what Draco described.

Not even close.

Yup. $3 / day to power my entire (admittedly one room) appartment.

Camping chairs are a user created feature, not an LL feature. The owner pays whatever money people earn from it, the trafic happens on his or her land, as will the lag that this will cause. It can be annoying for close neighbours, since they suffer from the lag caused as well, but there's no reason to require LL to take steps.

Try talking with your neighbour, and try to sort out any problems you may have. Just ask him or her to reduce the number of camping chairs on site, or to place them in a seperate skybox 600ft up so lag is much less of an issue. That last is something I have seen already, stores with a special teleport to their seperate chair box elsewhere, sometimes even with a television or constantly updated addboard on the wall showing commercials (which generate some extra income for the owner of the camping chairs as well).

As for any economical effects of camping chairs: new money isn't generated by them. It's basically money that the owner already has, which he cycles back into the community. The owner isn't even guaranteed that the campers will use the money in his or her store, although he does have a slightly increased chance of course. Although I did see a variation to camping chairs as well, where the reward wasn't money, but a regular item sold at the store.

What I would think to be a more interresting option, is to limit the resource allocation to anything happening on a parcel of land, by the amount of land owned by the parcel owner. It IS possible to tell a server where to allocate resources, and how to limit them. So what we'd really want, is limiting the resources required by a parcel to a percentage that depends on the size of the parcel. A 512 parcel with 20 campingchairs should not even be allowed to draw as many resources as a 4k parcel. Owning 10% of a sim should limit every resource drawn on your land to only 10% of the resources available to the whole sim, whether it's by you, any objects or any visitors on your land. If you put hundreds of huge textures onto your land, then your plot and its visitors will suffer the consequences. If you like to use megaprims, then your plot and its visitors will suffer the consequences. If you have hundreds of visitors, then your plot and your visitors will suffer. Not the adjecent lots.

Yeah...when I run SETI@Home and leave my machine on all day, the additional cost is negligible. At least to me. But $3 a day can be a lot of money to some if spread over a month. Of course if the computer is in Mom's basemant and she is paying the bills.....

I'm sure that this is one step in every landowners process in their attempts to alleviate their problem with their inconsiderate neighbors and their camping chair dependancy. But guess what Margarita? It doesn't work. For the most part, these neighbors are already aware of the ills that camping chairs cause to their neighbors and sims. But for the most part they are selfish and simply couldnt care less about anyone but themselves. All you end up with is getting into a dispute and stress over what is suppose to be your fun time in SL. Why should LL leave it up to residents to police an issue that can be easily resolved by them.

How easily can this be resolved by LL you ask? You've offered an option it right here ...



It's really that simple.

An even easier option might be to simply introduce the limits I mentioned above into their TOS. With violators being fairly warned, and any persistent violators being charged with progressive discipline.

1. The linden's receive a complaint.
2. They investigate and find out that the violator is using more than their camping chair allotment.
3. They remove the excess camping chairs and issue a warning, and
4. Additional violations result in progressive discipline.

How much easier can it get than that?

And actually this would serve to relieve LL from the hundredths of complaints they receive daily regarding camping chairs. Because there would be a guide and firm policy in place dictating the use of camping chairs that can be made clear to all residents, and it would empower residents when they approached their neighbor and discussed the issue because all a resident had to do was give the neighbor the opportunity to remove the camping chairs lest they be reported for camping chair abuse. Most people do adhere to TOS requirements, unless their wish is to get banned, at which time LL could fulfill their wishes with a timely banning.

This is really a no brainer. Not hard at all to enforce. Just a simple addition to the TOS regarding camping chair allotment usage.

As mentioned earlier, this problem is not ever going to go away. If anything, the problem will only worsen as SL grows. It will be a persistant worry and pain for ever mainland land owner each and every time land goes up for sale in their sim. And with good reason. Chances are really good that that new owner will plunk down a dozen camping chairs on their newly acquired land in an effort to make his/her mark in Second Life.

Again, It will only get worse as SL grows. Why not address the problem and nip it in the bud now?

The problem is, limiting camping chairs is too narrow to be really workable. There are millions of ways for parcelowners to be a source of lag to all in the vicinity. A running hamsterwheel looks nice for example, but if it isn't too well scripted but has lots of extras, it can create just as much lag. I woudn't want to live next to a casino either, whether it has campig chairs or not. Too many scripts, particles, visitors, whatever you can think of. Same with danceclubs. And I think the community has thought of only a fraction of the possibilities in SL so far. Some simple and small, may certainly affect a whole sim! Putting some hardcoded resource barriers on a per-parcel basis would prevent any problems that might arise in the future, instead of forcing LL employees to look into each and every situation.

Hold on Margarita. Don't get ahead of yourself now.

This is a thread about camping chairs. Let's strictly deal with camping chairs.

Keep it really simple.

But I do agree with you about this ...



In other words, how it gets taken care of is not as important as making sure that in the end, it gets taken care of.