Linden Lab! Please do NOT ever implement any kind of gender verification in SL!

Or even in a country where it's not illegal. They do exist...

The odd thing about this debate, and the other optional verifications, is the lack of use of examples from RL which are equivalently sensitive. Why should asking for a gender verification be a harmless, free-access exercise for the likes of Mr Nilsson? In RL, he can't demand to see the HIV test results or the credit history of his prospective sexual partners: why should his "rights" extend further in SL than RL, just because it's an easy database-programming task to make him happy?

The model proposed here seems to be, in paraphrase: "I demand the right to sneak up on people and see their personal data so that I can serve my own needs above theirs" and most importantly, "I demand that Linden Labs act as my privacy-snooping proxy, because I don't have the stones to ask the question myself".

Here's an alternative approach: Why not record everything anyone wants to know. Then, whenever someone you are chatting or partying with hits the "verify..." menu, you are told that they are asking about you, and what it is in particular, they want to verify. Could be something (comparatively) harmless and understandable, like age: could be something tendentious and distrustful, like RL picture, gender, whatever. The important point is, you would know the request had been made, and would then be free to respond to them in the appropriate way. This could work very much like the ratings system works now...

...and somehow, I suspect, it would produce a small group of incredibly smug, paranoid fools perpetually verifying people, and a vast group of others who never bother with that system in the slightest. As it happens, www.slprofiles.com is 80% of the way to satisfying the idiot requirement to verify everything - which is to say, it purports to fix the problem in a way that is both inadequate, wide open to forgery - and will probably make these dorks both happy, and deluded...

One thing very few if any of you are taking into account is the original mission of Linden Labs. SL isn't here as a game for you except as it stands. It's an experiment into the nature of networking and a possible future replacement or at least partner to the traditional internet.

That said, if the above is indeed the case, requiring residents to provide all their details and become verified in a hundred and one ways ... is getting somewhat 1984ish.

yeah but that's mostly because LL is a spineless company.

Still on the net sex and games have the lion share.

We got plenty of sex... what about games?

How about implementing an engine to upload an exact photo copy of your body and face and ban ALL other forms of avatars? But be careful: There will be WEIGHT VERIFICATION!

n.b. Last time I checked I was not a pink lynx in real life.

If you can be given a choice to participate in gender verification, you can then opt out in reponse to your own personal views.
This will naturally cause a less significant problem for those who do opt out because they will still be looked at as a deciever but in general, not everyone who is genuine and honest with their gender will participate in the gender verification.
I personally vote for gender verification because I am not a deciever by nature. I am true and honest about myself and could not bring myself down so low as to do something like that.

I'll chime in on Brenda's thread.

Not only would gender ID be bad for women and certain other classes of people (transgendered, roleplayers, etc.) it would be bad for EVERYONE...whether they know it or not.

As a newbie, I was amazed at the amount of emotional involvement I experienced in my first few SL encounters. When someone threatened me, I was scared. If they said something funny, I laughed. If they flirted with me, I flirted back. If they ignored me, I felt hurt. It really WAS like a "second life", one in which I reacted to the avatars I met based on their appearance, and on what they said and did. And they reacted to me the same way.

If I knew that the cute guy with the goatee and cool shades I was talking to was "really" a middle aged, overweight woman with six kids, I would react very differently. That knowledge would always be in the back of my mind, and it would color my actions and responses. If you're honest with yourself, you'll realize that you would probably do the same.

Having the real world intrude in this way would ruin the whole universe of social interaction that is SL, and would make the SL experience much less immersive. We would be reduced to about the interaction level of traditional roleplaying games like D&D. D&D is a great game, but being able to see the people sitting around the table with you makes it very hard to stay "in character". There's a big difference between "I'm an elf" and "I'm a stockbroker PLAYING an elf".

For those arguing that "I need to know, because the person I'm talking to might be fooling me and I don't want to be hurt" ... hey, it happens in real life too. Serial killers masquerade as the quiet neighbor across the street. Gay men hide their deepest selves from their wives. There's a manipulative predator inside that smiling, gorgeous hunk. There's a hopeless romantic inside that shy nerd with the thick glasses. We seldom (I would say, "never" show our real selves to others. The best you can do is to accept the part of a person that he or she is willing to share with you, and live with uncertainty about the rest.

I don't know your RL gender. I don't need to know. I don't WANT to know! I want to know the person you are in SL, not your RL "alt".

There are far too many quotes I can plaster here... But heres my piece to add...

Looking at the majority..... A move to implement gender verification is not just immoral... But has any one thought of the legal implications revealing personal information can have? They only way they could get past it is by putting above the half way mark of that wonderful EULA that you agree to let them scream out to the world any information they have on you including your postal address...

I feel that having this barrier helps a lot of insecure people..... It also births a lot of malicious people.... Second Life is turning into a virtual Utopia.... Personally Id hate to live in Utopia.... Utopia isn't all spires and giggling children..... Butterflies flying over a meadow enclosed in a biodome that makes sure its permanently summer... It isnt families enjoying them selves day in day out while robots do all the work and processors recycle and produce food..... Watch Logan's Run..... That was a great telling of Utopia...

Utopia is Mao Tse-tung...... Utopia is Communism and Dictation.. It is uniforms and conformities...... Any one who can honestly say "I want this.... I want to be a mindless zombie" needs to be taken behind a shed and shot.....

But on the other side as me as an individual........... I don't care...... I am who I am..... If you choose not to believe that and go away then fine...... If you choose to abuse me because I wont offer proof to you the first time we meet then I am well adversed to being petty and ignoring people without the use of the mute button..... Its far more hurt full to ignore some one than to mute them...

I have photo, video and vocal proof.... The closest people and the most trusted even get to talk to me on the phone..... And to the people that arn't close enough for me to trust with my phone no. I have a verified paypal account they can look up..... That means I have linked paypal to my bank account which is a little hard to falsify (spelling?)

How ever...... If they introduce it I WONT support them by clicking the reveal button and if they make it compulsory they will be receiving a letter from a lawyer not me...

But as said before....... Weather you believe I am who I say I am or not is your choice and choice is something that should never be taken away.

The way LL are going they will become a communist company

/me thinks she would like to hang out with Lindal and falney in world.

please sumbit a blood sample for your DNA test first.

You didn't keep the results from the one I gave you?

they told me that sample was tainted, evidently French kissing is not a good way to do a saliva swab.

Who knew?

None of what you say makes any sense.

You don't deceive people, so you want to tell people your personal data. Great. Do so. Go around with a titler above your head displaying your age, gender, orientation, weight, height, social security number and home address for all I care. But why get LL involved and force a stigma on those who don't want to do it?

There are things that aren't necessarily any of your business. Yes, even things that are very central to a person's personality and identity. I keep seeing on here, "But its very important to know what gender a person is because gender is a key part of personality, and we wouldn't nessasarily feel comfortable talking about X to a person if we knew their gender." I see that as your cross to shoulder, not everyone else's. There are numerous things that could have just as strong an effect... for example, sexual orientation. Is a person lying to you if they don't pop right up and say "I'm gay!" as the first words out of their mouth when they meet you? Guess what, in real life, movie stereotypes aside, it's quite often impossible to tell if a person is gay or not unless you catch them on a date. Religion is another one - it has a HUGE bearing on a person's outlook on life, but unless they wear an icon of some form, religion isn't exactly branded on your forehead for all to see. Same with political orientation. And those are just some examples that are hard to spot in real life - expand it to more obvious differences like nationality, ethnicity, age (No, age 18 to age 118 is not the same, in any way other than legal ones), you name it, and it gets even worse.

None of which people are asking to verify in SL. Just gender.

That says something, and I'm not sure if its a good thing. Honestly, it makes me feel like most people are either way too quick to hop into the virtual sack with people and are scared of getting burned, or people are far too quick to spill "personal" details to complete strangers.

Police theyself, rather than policing others, howzabout?

I'm not trying to Generalize but it seems that all of these people spouting this moral indignity over identity protection have been men. They feel no need to protect themselves on the internet from assorted stalkers and looneys, and can't seem to grasp that there is a real reason for women to want to protect themselves. It has nothing to do with morality or deception. It's about safety. If your insecurities are going to hinder your pixel sexplay, then perhaps you should be looking for it elsewhere. If the avi you are with turns you on, go for it. Don't ask questions. It stays in SL. If you are looking for RL romance...go to EHarmony. Or your nearest Bar.

Well said! SL is not a singles club. I don't plan to meet any men I might meet on SL. No thanks, I already got my RL man and I'm happy. Even if my av has intimate relations with another one, I simply don't care if it is controlled by a 18 yrs old guy or a 60 yrs old granny. If the roleplay is good, it's good for me. SL is for fun, not for serious things. Switching your age, gender, race or species is not deception - it's called virtual reality.

Just as in.... when stating that I stand strong for my privacy and people will ask: "Why? Do you have something to hide?"

*shrugs*
To honest... people stating things as you do above scare me.

Morwen.

Well said, Morwen. *waves*

Mandy C

Why do I feel like making a fake driver's licence with my draconic muzzle on it?

Exactly because of this I am against voice as well.

Can I join the frightened Group as well? Maybe we can all Group Hug.

*hugs all*

I love you guys... and by "guys" I mean no RL or SL gender verification or assumption whatsoever. Or species-ism. Or unsolicited unwelcome intimacy or harrassment. Or spamming...

heck.. ::just pays 10 L$ via Profiles::

Im coming late into this thread but I want to give my 2 pennies worth.



You are interacting with my Av She is female.

Am I femaile in RL? Perhaps. Perhaps not.

Is Gabbi short for Gabriela or Gabriel? You decide.

I agree with others that it is immaterial. I get hit on a lot by male AV, but I dont know with some of them if they are male or female in RL. If it was such a problem, Im sure some of them would have asked by now. I never say "my wife" or "my husband" I always say my partner and leave the rest for them to decide. I truthfully say my occupation if asked. I work in a typically, but not exclusively, male domain, but I also do the cooking at home.

Hmm, lets see, RL I'm a 36 year old human male, SL I'm a 5 year old female furry kitten.
ZOMG!!!11oneone I must be a perv crossgender ageplayer beastualety.. nevermind that I don't do anything even remotly sexual.

And dont tell me, your real name is Pat!!!