Remove Delete Ability

LL, please remove the ability to delete an object that does not belong to that person.

No person anywhere, at any time should be able to delete any of my objects from the game world.

Period.

I don't care where it is, what it's sitting on, how long it's been there, or how much it resembles a glowing rotated neon colored disk of puke, no person, even a Linden (without serious consultation with whomever you consult before IP/CC# bans occur), should be able to delete an object.

It is my property. Literally so, if I understand your stance on creations in game. The willful and total annihilation of my property should not be within the powers of any person other than myself.

Auto-Delete should become Auto-Return.

Perhaps even sandboxes should return all objects it can before a server wipe. It might miss one or two (somehow) and such a loss could be part of the dangers inherent to Cordova (perhaps much like building a home in the shadow of an active volcano), or somesuch.

Return is an available option. It should be the ONLY option.

it's not auto delete it's returned. If the item is worthy of deletion (ie built for grief) the Lindens may PERM delete, don't forget it's THEIR world.

As for the sandboxes it's stated that it's DELETE, if you don't like it don't build there!

I'm with Nexus. If you want to keep a copy, keep a copy. If you go dumping trash on my land I'll throw it away. It's nothing personal or vindictive but when people let objects trespass on people's land they are sending the message that they don't want those objects.

Not to mention, I've been chewed out for returning objects and spamming people's inventory with tons of objects named "Object".

Yea if you don't want your stuff deleted, don't build other people's land. Fair 'nuff I think.

I heartily agree with "leave delete as it is".

I pay for SL resources by way of buying land. How I deal with objects that are on my land without my permission should be entirely up to me. I do not want in any way to allow people the mindset, "f it if he returns it I'll just put it back".

On my property, people have left porn in a pg sim, put listeners for those damn world networks, built a mile above the ground to try and escape notice, and so forth. This stuff gets deleted with prejudice, and objects from that owner get added to my scanners. Somebody who left one of those little girl porn TV screens on my property actually yelled at me for deleting it!!!

Don't
Build
On
My
Land.

Not unless you're going to pay for my account.

Ok, can anyone here give me a reason to delete something, rather than returning it, beyond "I'm vindictive, and hate it when people get creative on my property"?

Trade ya the ability to delete objects for the ability to delete fourm posts.

Conversely...

Can anybody give me a reason to not build on your land or carelessly leave objects on it, other than I am a griefer and/or a thoughtless person who doesn't care what effect my objects on your land may cause (i.e., I frequently autorez to the limit, and if your objects are on my land...)...?

touche!

How about the Game Dev? Multiple people building on one plot of land. I create something. My client crashes, or my brain crashes, and I don't get a copy. Or I have 100 instances of that object across the entire plot. When an object is deleted, I get no warning, no message, and no backup. When an object is returned, I get a message saying where it was at, what was returned, and a backup.

Same with Seacliff, or any other cooperative construction project. I've had objects accidentally deleted and returned on many occasions.

Again, I ask, what POSSIBLE reason is there in retaining Delete functionality when we have Return as an option?

Return gets rid of the 'offending' objects on your plots of land (what do you guys do, run around with griefer magnets all day?) just as well as Delete.

Mol you're right in a way I apologize for the sabre rattling.

But ok, you gotta admit that building on somebody else's land is just flat out rude. If you want to leave a little something to get the owner's attention or say hello whatever, IM them or put a little llSetText on it.

And what better way of driving home that point than returning their objects, making a message pop up for every object returned?

What point is there in deleting objects, when all it does is make you the cleaning person and doesn't make them go out of their way to clean up the mess? (Even if going out of their way means tracking down all the objects they made that are unceremoniously dumped into their inventory, sorting through them, and trying to figure out which ones they want to keep, and which ones they want to get rid of.)

Again... What's the point behind delete when return will do?

No one should be able to delete someone else's property. Returning it is enough.

Let me ask you guys something. What if you bought a transferrable but no-copy vehicle and drove/flew it somewhere and went into la-la land when you crossed into a sim, and had to relog? And then you couldn't find it (since these things tend to stay in motion - trust me, they can wind up FAAAAAR away from where you were when you lost them), and someone deleted it?

You'd be out hundreds (thousands, in some cases) of L$, because someone deleted it rather than returning it.

Seriously, why would it be so awful to return it rather than deleting it? As far as people getting mad that you flooded their inventory with "Object", well, that's their fault, isn't it? Certainly that doesn't justify getting an expensive or IRREPLACEABLE object deleted.

I totally agree that (No Copy) items should only ever be returned to their owner, not deleted.

For everything else though, I would prefer to keep it as is --- IF --- the deleted items were sent to their owner's trash can. (they aren't)

Often are the times when I'm sure the owner doesn't want what I'm deleting back in their inventory. (watermelons from the watermelon gun, copies of 'gifts' that were obviously temporary, etc)

I kinda wish there was a way to RETURN things on neighboring land that wasn't owned by my neighbors as well. It's lame when something ugly shows up that they don't own and they're away for weeks. It'd also be nice to be able to return something only partially covering your land as well, but that's a different issue.

Hmm, I kinda feel sometimes the need for Delete is there, I.e. someone practices building, and rezes a plain cube, theres no need for them to have that cube, or for you to return it to them, so you can just Delete.

However I also agree that losing an expensive object/having someone be able to delete your property, sucks.

A possible solution is, for objects that are No Copy, only the Return option is available, objects that are copyable can be deleted. This solves the problem of losing expensive no-copy vehicles... however... if you have a test object you spent hours working on, suddenly zoom off, and its no copy... yeah.

The system is not broke, just the way people use it is, since people are less likely to change though, changing the system is something to think about.

My opinion right now is to leave it how it is, but I'm close to being swayed.

What if that .5x.5x.5 plywood cube with "New Script" in it turns out to be their only copy of some l33t new thing they are developing?

What if the object is copyable by the owners because it's theirs, and it's a prototype they are testing? My Slipstream started out as a plywood cube with Andrew's reference script in it.

If you keep the only copy of your l33t new script in a plywood box on someone else's land, --someone else who you haven't asked for permission to use their land-- I think you deserve to get it deleted.

But who are you to decide what's delete worthy, and what's return worthy? Perhaps they REALLY REALLY like that cube? Or it has some script in it they want to save?

Again... Return gets rid of the object -just as well- as delete.

What purpose is there behind delete, then, that return does not do as well (or even better)?

^ Please quote the above question, and respond to it.



That's Return.

-----

Hey, you guys remember back during the whole "Router Hidden" debacle?

We were on a guy's plot of land that had 13 or so of those listening objects on them. Myself and another guy were developing pointer scripts to locate and reveal these objects. After I finished up and left (since I got bored) the other guy working on the project had his project deleted, and was banned from the land by a guy within thirty seconds of his logging in. No warning. No chance to get a copy of the object. Just delete and ban. He was standing -right there- and could have been asked what he was doing, but nope. Deleted. Now, he wouldn't have had to start over had it been returned...

Who am I? I'm the owner of my land, which they did not build on with any sort of permission at all.



It gets rid of the particle spammer, broken animator, random plywood cubes, follower squeaky toy, self-reproducing fish, etc.. without handing it right back to the person who dropped it out there, so they can just cough it up again.

I'm most definitely not going to make it easier for them to use things like that again.

I'd rather it be a return vs delete non-option. Untidy builders, or unlucky "lost my car" folks would have a chance to recover lost items.

I would however like to see a special folder where returned objects go. Not Lost & Found and not in the main inventory. But a seperate dir that you can quickly check for "new" returns.

Let us also not forget the very many of us who are learning to use the xyz numbers instead of just dragging stuff by hand. I cannot tell you how many times something I was building suddenly ended up god knows where in a sim because I punched the wrong number into the wrong coordinate. I do my best to find these things, but there have been a couple of times when it has been a nice person that found it and told me where it was or returned it. I've done the same for others.

Should I just stop learning to build?

And who are you to decide what gets DELETED vs. what gets RETURNED? You don't own the -object- in question, so why should you decide whether it lives or dies? Both options clear your land, so it can't be an issue of land ownership.



Lessee...

Drag-Drop particle bomb

Vs.

Drag-Drop copy of particle bomb they keep in their inventory, because they're a griefer and came to grief.

You returning the object isn't going to make it 'easier' for a griefer to grief, because any person that is -actually- griefing is going to have a copy of the script/object in their inventory anyway, at which point you use the already available tools of:

No-Build
No-Script and
Report Abuse

to take care of the problem. Returning the object is only going to make their lives harder, because, in the case of the replicating ants/fish/whatever, they have to go through and delete each copy they want to get rid of.

What point is there in keeping delete as a viable option? It doesn't make life harder for griefers, and only punishes creative people.

What, are you going to start banning anyone standing on your land next, because it's 'rude' for them to be there without permission?

Given that most griefers have the attention span of a ferret, return basically says "Hey remember this?".

People standing on my land isn't even the same game, they don't use up my prims standing there.

Seriously, if you don't want to worry about it, don't go building stuff on people's land. How hard is that?

The problem with that logic is it punishes the innocent for the crimes of the guilty (few).

There are, in my opinion, many many more honestly lost/forgotten items littering other's lands than griefier items. Return is a safe way to insure the honest get their toys back. Personally I return anything that's not a single unaltered prim (unless its contents contain *anything*). I take the time to look, and only delete if it's a base prim (or I know absolutely it's a griefer's widget, eg: I saw um shoot/drop/push/impulse/rez..etc it).

I know I'd appreciate others taking the time to be considerate as well, given I have lost plenty of items with scripts in them while editing said scripts -- which can be literally days of work. Lost, gone poof.. nevermore.

Boso

Crashes launching your vehicle across a few sims.

Said launches making you lose a unique vehicle.

Mis-typed position numbers.

The "Router Hidden" problem, where the only place you could TEST a script is on someone else's land.

Script tests gone awry.

Cooperative building projects, such as the Game Dev.

The Digital Rights thingy. (Edited because I think I called it the wrong thing.)

All of these are reasons for removing delete.

Reasons for keeping it? You don't want to use the 'ban' tool to remove griefers, or you're vindictive, and think that scripters should lose hours of work, simply because they happened to be on the mean old lady's land at the wrong time.

No reason for delete. Not even for a plywood cube.