Yearly Log On Requirement for Lifetime Members

I recently bought a nice parcel in Federal Sim and met one of my neighbors who informed me that the guy next door was a charter member, who had bought a lifetime, no tier membership way back, and through her varied attempts to contact him, had learned that he hadn't logged in IN OVER 2 YEARS.

While I'm not so bothered by this guy's land, as he has nothing threatening my view, I began to think about this. What if someone with a lifetime membership died. Likely the family wouldn't contact SL, as virtual real estate usually isn't on the minds of grieving relatives. What if a person was incarcerated for a long sentence, or joined the peace corps for several years, or just decided they no longer wanted to play in world, but didn't bother to inform the Lindens. I started flying around old sims and found lots of old land vacant, but claimed by charter members long ago.

As a realtor, I know this land needs either use or market circulation. If someone uses their land or just wants to hang onto it, then that is use. If they don't, they should sell or return it to Linden for auction or resell as firstland. Lifetime members need to know their land is safe, yes, but how do we even know the person is still alive in RL without some sort of verification?

So here is my proposal. All lifetime members must log in or email Linden Labs with their intent at least once per year. During the final 3 months of any year they havent' logged on, they would recieve several emails and possibly even a phone call and/or postcard, trying to discover their existance and intent. Members who already haven't logged in in over a year when this proposal is implemented, would be given six months to do so, with repeated reminders. At the end of these periods, their land would be reclaimed by Linden Labs, like all other abandoned lands, and their lifetime memberships made inactive but retrievable at any future date.

Ultimately this would help the lindens keep track of users, give them more land to distribute, and open opportunities for non-lifetime residence (and yes, realtors like myself).

I think that in this situation, LL's hands may be tied. I don't know the content of the contract people agreed to when they ought charter member accounts, but if that contract said they get their tier/land for life, then there's nothing LL can do about it. They can't rewrite the terms of the agreement after the fact. Fortunately, there are relatively few Charter accounts.

While I appreciate your reply, if we don't know the terms of the lifetime membership contract, there is no way to tell if this would be possible or not.

However, I think just letting the Lindens know that there is an issue might help. I mean, even if there is a contract, it is a LIFETIME membership. For me, this issue is more about verification and wasted land than anything else. Even if there was a contract, there has to be some means for the Lindens to attempt verifying lifetime members who have left and those that are still active. Perhaps just a lifetime member mailing list that spits out an email once or twice a year, with a link back to verify. I know in other forms of law, things that are lifetime can be nulified if there is no verifiction of existance over a certain timeframe, example. RL mariages where one spouse abandons the other and there is no means of contact for several years.

I'm not saying there needs to be a big upheaval, but Linden could take steps to attempt to acsertain the status of lifetime members who have gone missing.

So please continute to vote on this proposal.

-Joy Iddinja

Charter membership was expensive (like 300$) and was at a time when many people were still wondering if A) they would be in SL that long, and B) if LL would still be around. I know I was when I signed up (I signed up at the tail end of the Charter membership program, and darn it I wish I had).

I can't imagine there are more then a couple hundered charter members (they get 500$L stipends weekly and 1024 m2 of land, for life).

Yep, the lifetime membership was about $300 and it definitely felt like a gamble at the time. Personally, I puchased one as the only route of getting LL extra revenue (short of becomming a major investor) because I wanted to help them continue their existence.

I forget what the original benefits were, but these memberships predated land-tier pricing. When tier was instituted, LL thought a fair recompense to the lifers was to grant 4096m^2 allocation and the L$500/week stipend; I don't recall any complaints.

Your estimate of a couple hundred accounts is about right to my recollection. In practical terms, the lifer benefits are such a small portion of the land and L$ flows that they are dwarfed by the rest of the economy.

Actually, they get 4096... I have a few friends with Charter accounts.

*Burp*
http://history.secondserver.net/index.php/Account

I'm not sugesting taking land away from SL's Lifetime Members. Yes, they do deserve our respect for starting this thing and gambling on it, but if they are no longer active enough that they can't bother to log in ONCE PER YEAR, or click a link on an email from Linden Labs, then they are wasting the land. There is a serious mainland shortage right now, just when the game is expanding. I know it is a small number but it is still a waste or resources, and waste ticks me off.

Maybe there is a middle way, whereby the lifetime member retains ownership of the land but relinquishes control of it to the Lindens, who can tidy it up or rent it out but not sell it.

That is why I suggested letting the Lifetimer who does have their land taken back due to abandonment, be able to reactivate their membership at any time in the future. While the land they had would be long gone, they could buy more up to the 4096m limit without tier. While they might have lost their house and end up paying for the new land, they would still be guaranteed the full amount tier free if they ever chose to return, along with the stipend, and all the other benefits of Lifetime membership.

The renting thing probably wouldn't work for the same reason the clean up idea woulnd't either, too difficult a system to impliment. I mean, if Linden can't clean up protected land, how can they hope to do so on abandoned land? If linden doesn't rent now, they would have to start up some sort of system, decide how much to charge, how to apply rules, etc. Linden is pulling back on customer service, not expanding it. It is a good idea, but practically, it wouldn't fly.

-Joy Iddinja

this is silly its like saying ok anyone that cant build a nice looking house
on their land its going to be taken away and resold....
if anyone bought a lifetime membership its lifetime.
whos life time i would say secondlifes life time and these ppl should be able to pass
their land to their kids if they wanted... just my opinion
-LW

Quote me if i am wrong love, but wasnt that a 4096 m2 land reward?

So, we've established that there are a couple of hundred lifetime account holders, most of whom are unlikely to have upped and left without selling their land. Do they really contribute to the land shortage any more than...say...land traders selling empty parcels to each other for months as the bubble continues to expand?

Not complaining. Just sayin'...if we were to make a list of contributory factors for the lack of land, lifetimers would be somewhere at the bottom of the list.

In a way I hate to agree with the 1 year check in..... but the thing is ... if you are leaving the game. your leaving. and I dont think asking someone to check-in once a year is the worst idea ever.
could kind of clear the data base a little.... maybe every 3 months on inactivite non-pay or free accts how many unused accts must there be..... a lot I imagine.

but to try and say there is a shortage of lots on the mainland is crap. there is plenty for sale. its just greedyassed r. investors thinking they can make a mint pushing 512m polts for 10000L + is insane. right around my mainland plot they have recently razed the land broken most of it up into 512 - 1024 lots starting at 20000L + cant figure anyone would buy there, its barren and over priced. hope they lose a pile of loot.

the best one is I live in a dreamland sim (A. Chung sims), the property a little behind me was bought and put for sale within 10 minutes at 50000L cost 24999 now Im all for profit but come on.... almost all of her land at that size is 24999, why would anyone pay that much more. (however if it does sell for that Im putting mine up too) Im not that cool a Nighbor ( only set fire to his house once testing something.... figured it would dispate after a while.. it didnt. had to delete 500 some odd prim flames from that corner of our sim / )

This isn't just about the land. This is about participation. If someone just wants to hold onto the land, that is fine, just click a darn link in an email once per year. This is about verification, and nipping in the bud the waste of resources.

And Dillion, your analogy is misplaced. Yes, what you say has happened in regards to the price of land. However, if this proposal were implemented, LINDEN LABS would get the land back. Most likely, considering it is often in chunks of 4096m and sometimes fully terraformable, they would sell it via auction. Some might be sold as first land, which does relieve the pressure on the market, somewhat.

Lightwave, your idea of passing on the land defeats the purpose of LIFETIME membership. When you buy the RL Farm, you forfeit your SL one.

Although, I think this passing on land is still possible, so long as it is placed in a will or trust by the Lifetime member, or any member owning land. The will's executor could log on with the deceased's user name and password, and 'sell' the land to the heirs for L$0. I don't know, but this is a really cool logic prob. LOL

-Joy Iddinja

Joy, I wasn't complaining about the owners of so much unavailable land (or their methods), and I'm aware of how reclaimed parcels are sold. I'm just pointing out that the group being discussed here is so small, that the sale of parcels belonging to such a tiny minority who behave as you suggest is unlikely to "relieve the pressure on the market". Really, compare this handful to thousands of parcels locked in the hands of traders for months -- besides your reasoning for reclaiming the land in question -- and I don't think my analogy is "misplaced" at all.

Btw, is there a good reason to believe more than a handful of 4096 parcels are abandoned in this fashion? I know of one lifetime member who sold all her land back in August when RL priorities took her out of SL for a few months. Why wouldn't most lifetime members behave similarly, given the real $USDs to be made by selling up (L$25,000 - L$35,000 for a 4096 back then, so not an insubstantial amount compared to what it would be worth now)? It's what the rest of us do, after all.

In the very long term (with regards death), I can see your point. I just can't see what's happening now being affected in the slightest by this group.

Best wishes

I know a player who is a lifer, had to stop playing for personal reasons, still has some builds in-game, and could return at any time although she's been gone at least a year.

For all I know, her shops are still generating sales. Furthermore, this player was one of the friendliest, well-known, talented, and pleasant players SL has ever known.

LL can change the terms of the lifers contract at any time. It would be sad - and a mite unkind - in this case I'm thinking of.

if there are about 200 lifetime accounts, then they would be entitled to 12.5 sims worth of land. Since there are about 5000 sims. It would have almost no effect on the land market considering that it is probably only a small percentage of people who are MIA.

(I joined a couple weeks before the 1.3 update)

If it was an email that said "please log on or click here so we know you're still alive and kicking" would take 30 seconds of her time and bingo. All good for another year.
(Of course, there would be an email about the requirement that gets sent out too, so that the lifers who don't come by any more understand the implications)

People change emails all the time. No, I would want at least a weekly email the final 2 to 3 months AND a phone call and post card within the last 2 weeks. I would want serious due diligence on the part of Linden. And before you claim it wouln't be economical for a LL employee to spend an hour on the phone trying to contact uncontactable users, I point out that 1 reclaimed, fully terraformable 4096 lot would go for over 400 US dollars, in short, paying for the program itself, considering the relatively small number of lifetimers that would have not logged on in a whole year.

As to why some people wouldn't sell their land, it depends. Some people are richer than others, some don't see the 300 they shelled out as a big deal. Others may have found new interests and just forgot the land (the main group I'd want to reach). Some may have died or been permanently disabled to the point of being unable to care what happened to their virtual land, so long as they don't slip into the grave. $300 isn't a huge sum, especially if they feel they've already gotten what they need from SL.

-Joy Iddinja

Maybe its time again to offen chater memberships to those that want to pay 300.00.I do it they offer it.

First up, if there were some kind of "lifetime" account on offer now, with similar terms to the last version offered, I'd probably take it.

Second up, these are "lifetime" accounts. That doesn't mean they get that tier-free land and stipend forever. It means they get it for life. Given that, I think it's reasonable that the players concerned actually demonstrate to LL that they are, in fact, still alive. And a yearly email to LL or login to the SL server seems quite reasonable as a minimal means of demonstrating that.

Or you could just read post #17 and then continue to beat a dead horse.

Just FYI, with lifetime offers, it generally means the life of the product, not life of the person.

So a Lifetime Warrenty lasts....as long as the product lives? That is, it's garunteed to live as long as it lives?