A second chance?

So if I knowingly let someone sell rip-offs of your plants in my store, it would be no reflection on me?

I suppose I just don't agree that anything goes as long as people get their money, and peoples' reputations should be seperate from their ethics. If someone knowingly supports someone who rips others off, it does have something to do with them.

Hiro:
I can appreciate your sense of being in the middle; of having misgivings, yet being suspicious enough of your own misgivings to ask the question in the interest of being fair.

Kudos to those with the capacity to question themselves.

Were it me, the fact that I could ask myself the question would make me lean towards doing business with the individual --
Even if I might not be able to fully articulate a committment to myself why I *should* deal with someone, I would require of myself unequivocal and committed articulation of why I should not. If I harbor doubts, I will normally give the benefit of the doubt.

YMMV.

This begs the question of is it "support" to rent a space out to someone who has done this in the past and swears they no longer do it?

It is support if the designers who were ripped off came and politely asked that the person be ejected because the person was still selling wares that were indeed ripped off and the owner refused? Possibly.

Is it support if the owner decided that the person did indeed stop selling the stuff and watches them to make sure that they are no longer ripping off/or now ripping off other designers? No, it is merely giving someone a second chance, albeit a careful one.

But does it reflect on the owner? I would say yes, if the person was still active in their ripping. I know I would have to carefully consider putting my vendors on a land that also holds someone who is actively ripping designs, and quite possibly on any land also held by that person, but that is a situational call, on which I would do.

Business-wise, this would in my outlook be a win/lose situation, but the moral is a highly dificult one.. which I would assume is what is really being discussed, not just the business ramifcations.

I know one thing for sure, I would never have someone renting land from me that is actively ripping off someone elses creations. If the person in question was still actively doing this, I would have to wave goodbye, no difficult decision there. My dilemma was more about deciding if I should give someone who has done this in the past a second chance.

Thanks everyone, I appreciate the time taken to share your views

I mentioned in my first post in this thread that I don't believe people should be continually punished for a mistake they tried to make right. Mistakes are forgivable, it's just not always easy to tell if they're sorry they did it, or sorry they got caught and will be sneakier next time.

My advice to Hiro is; Give her a chance, and if you find out she's still doing it, or it causes too much trouble for you, your reputation and your business, then cut ties.

Apparently it would be to a lot of people in SL. But my answer is no. I wouldn't complain to you, consider it your responsibility, or expect you to do anything about it. The issue of selling copies of my plants is between me and the perpetrator, not innocent land and mall owners busting their butts all day every day to operate their own businesses.

I realize that this perspective is unique to...well...me I guess. It explains an awful lot of things that I didn't understand about Second Life.

Actually, Cienna, I don't think it is fair. There are a great number of situations where managers or leaders have to take a decision, but will consult with their constituency. My member of parliament generally gets the benefit of my opinions about the issues of the day, despite the fact that he's the one who gets the vote in parliament. He is an honourable man who would never vote against his conscience, but he actively solicits the opinions of his constituents.

I have been in world for 16 months, and I have lived in places where people have deliberately and knowingly made life miserable for other residents and LL have done nothing about it. I bought land where another resident had set down farm animal noises that went on night and day. Where people have had objects spawning every few minutes. Where people terrform in an ugly and inconsiderate way.

I have been living in Rapture sim for months, and it is the happiest I have been anywhere in SL. I know that no one is going to put a huge club or ugly thing near my little island, and that people have to behave themselves or leave. Hiro is the best sort of landlord, in that he takes tough decisions, but consults his tenants before making any changes.

If you are trying to create real communities where people respect and support each other, I think sounding out that community over this sort of issue is completely valid, assuming that you don't name names and use it as an excuse to humiliate people. Fortunately or unfortunately this behaviour is so common that it isn't possible to conclude the name of the avatar concerned...at least for me.

A true community does look out for each other, and take account of the opinions of the people living within it. This gives people a sense that they matter and that they have some measure of control over what happens to them. If you don't want to become part of that community, there are innumerable sims where the rule of the jungle (or more likely, the dollar) prevails.
Cali

I voted yes. It seems to me that if a person made a mistake, and apologized for it, of course they deserve a second chance. It would be a shame if that person then found out they couldn't rent land because of something entirely unrelated they had already tried to make amends for.

coco

Considering you don't know the content of the PM I sent, I was surprised to see all this vehemence. I didn't post to argue with someone over whether or not my opinion was 'valid'. But thank you for very pointedly demonstrating to Hiro why I said what I said in my PM.

Hiro,

I think you putting way to much thought into this. If you don't need the money tell them to hit the road. If you want/need the money rent the spot when the complaints are more than the money is worth kick their ass out. There are plenty of spots to rent in SL so you renting to this person isnt goin to make or break anything.

Lost help

My 2 cents....

If I were the landlord I would set out rental vendors. When a person pays rent to the vendor they have the location for the time they paid. The vendor doesn't ask questions, it doesn't care what you sell, it simply tells you the prim limit for that area and whatever other rules that must be followed. The owner of the land/vendor should remove her/himself from the issues.

I'm sure LL doesn't make moral statements by controlling who can or can't buy land in different areas.

While I agree the landlord has the right to dictate basic rules that must be followed while on their land, I think it's crazy to expect landlords to look into a renters history to decide whether to rent to that person. Set the rules to apply to all renters, such as no selling freebies/copied goods created by others without permission. But don't look into their history. If someone breaks the rules, boot them without a refund.

Just my opinion

Everyone deserves a second chance...

PM? I was responding to what you said on the forum, have no knowledge of anything said outside it.
Cali

Ok. Allow me to rephrase. My opinion isn't open for your judgement. Nor does it require your acceptance.