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SL Monetary Policy and upcoming changes

Magnum Serpentine
Registered User
Join date: 20 Nov 2003
Posts: 1,811
01-11-2005 02:21
From: Alicia Eldritch
An income tax would make things MUCH worse.

Keynes was wrong, folks. The US economy is slowly dying proof.

LL has done the right thing here, given the situation. More than most of you even realize.

There will be short term pain for a lot of players, yes - including me. I will be objectively poorer in the short term because of this.

But the alternatives would be much worse. Worst of all would be creeping rampant inflation, that erodes the society from within.

In the long run, the social and economic structure will become much much stronger because of these changes.



Alicia,

I do not see why the Lindens can't leave things alone. I see no problems in the future for the current system. I only see Linden Labs giving into the Vocal Minority.

Thats all they have done in this situation.

And I am deeply angery.
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Magnum Serpentine
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Join date: 20 Nov 2003
Posts: 1,811
01-11-2005 02:23
From: Hiro Pendragon
Well we're damn vocal tonight :)


What do you mean by your remarks?
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Hiro Pendragon
bye bye f0rums!
Join date: 22 Jan 2004
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01-11-2005 02:25
From: Magnum Serpentine
What do you mean by your remarks?

I mean that while you state the minority had been vocal, the majority is speaking loud and clear about this. :)
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Satu Moreau
Seldom seen ***** phantom
Join date: 22 Nov 2004
Posts: 65
01-11-2005 03:10
From: Cubey Terra
One question... how would the rich get richer off this if the average player has less money to spend? If anything, it will be harder for anyone to sell anything. Can you elaborate on how this would favour someone who's played SL for a long time?

All I can say is that we'll have to wait and see how this effects prices. Maybe once the value of the L$ rises, prices will have to drop and it will balance out.


As said before, the rich get richer because they can pay others to rate them, the more ratings you have, the more money you get per week. Thus the rich people's ratings and stipends go up while the poor people sit in the muck.

As said before, I really think this is an awful idea, just restating, creators will have less money to upload textures and to build and create with and less reason to create as no one will be able to afford their work anymore. The number of events will drop drastically until no one really cares to spend time in world anymore and a severe depression if not all out death of SL will occur. Not to mention, with ratings costing more and stipends being less, newbies will have far less room to make and recover from early financial mistakes in game, like my first day, I tried a slot machine and lost a lot and then didn't have the money I wanted to buy an av. THough this sparked me to try to make my own av on the second day from scratch, though I didn't have enough money to upload all of the textures I needed which many times takes a lot of trial and error and paying more to upload more textures. I was fortunate enough that I met several individuals impressed with just my work in progress alone by someone two days old in the game that gave me a little bit of money for uploading textures and rating people to learn the system better.
Satu Moreau
Seldom seen ***** phantom
Join date: 22 Nov 2004
Posts: 65
01-11-2005 03:16
From: Roberta Dalek
We've been discussing tringo which is the current big thing in the SL gaming scene. There will be no motivation for people to code games as there will be no market for them. There will be no market as there will be no event host fees or contributions towards prizes.


I meant to comment on this earlier too. They are implementing this to try to get people to stop hoarding and let the money flow again, correct? At least partly the reason why. All I see this causing is for people to hoard more, especially just before this is implemented, just so they can hold on to what they have in case they find something they really intensely want to buy. But then, why should they want to buy something they like when they won't be able to replace that money so easily? No one will want to donate to pots for tringo and bingo because they'll be trying to hoard what little they have left and hosts sure won't be able to support the games themselves. This is going to seriously result in a major loss of players. You know what you guys are making here? A glorified chat room where everyone sits around bored.
Alexa Hope
Registered User
Join date: 8 Dec 2004
Posts: 670
01-11-2005 03:35
People like Alby Yellowknife and others are concerned about the L$-US$ value on GOM or whatever. The majority of us don't have enough L$ to worry about the exchange rate. I would ask them to think about that.

As I said elsewhere, because now its 25 L$ to rate someone, there will be far less ratings made and that means effectively that nearer 100 percent of the rating portion of the stipend, not 50 percent will not be paid. One or other would have been bad enough but both is a killer.

I know LL said we are in inflation but who is that harming? Only those who have megabucks. So this has been done to pander to the rich.

Someone told me the Lindens listened to their residents - how wrong were they.

Alexa

PS - as for hoarding L$, so what? I would call that saving, maybe to buy something expensive that you want.
Jsecure Hanks
Capitalist
Join date: 9 Dec 2003
Posts: 1,451
01-11-2005 03:44
I'm not sure what effect this will have... I feel warm towards the rating cost increase, and cold towards a smaller stipend...
Simon Oz
Perpetual Noob
Join date: 26 Dec 2004
Posts: 61
This isn't the apocalypse everyone thinks it is.
01-11-2005 07:07
As a fairly new recruit who wants to build and sell, my initial reaction was to get a bit pissed. "I just got here with a basic one-time account and now my allowance is going to be cut!" I said to myself. My reasoning was retail space and uploading textures is so expensive I'd never be able to afford to market.

Then I realized this is just going to bring prices in L$ down, and is also going to add greater value, in the long run, to anything I create in SL. I'm not too worried actually, and I'm broke most of the time in SL since I have no infrastructure set up yet. This will actually give me a higher motivation to create quality items in-world and to pass them on to other players.

So I have two choices;

1) Create higher quality content than I had before so that I can be the one to part newbies from their dollars before anyone else.

2) Upgrade to a full account (in the plans eventually anyway since I'm now an addict).

Either way it is going to be a bit of a rough ride, I estimate for a week or so, but it will also add value, in the mid term, to what is created in-world. Things will get more competetive, I think it'll be interesting. What I hope to see is even more thought put into higher quality items. Prices will adjust or the retailers will be undercut by faster moving competition. From my perspective everybody wins in the longer term, including LL.

As far as clubs go; I never went to any for the rates anyway and for the dancers and DJs the clear recourse is tips, which most clubs already have set up. I was a bit worried that I had joined right at the end of any meaningful social interactions anyway, the way rates and money were being handed out at clubs.
Raverchick Steele
Registered User
Join date: 20 Dec 2004
Posts: 27
This is not a threat simply my way of dealing with changes
01-11-2005 08:12
I am a new player(1mnth+) I depend on my wkly pay from LL to cover my basic costs one or two new outfits. The rest I get from bingo and such (tringo I'm learning) With this said Inbetween I go to what classes are held when time permits to learn new Ideas. If this plan goes into affect and beleive me It will I'll have to leave (cancel) I will not go into a game and have to struggle just to dress myself and rate others> LL has got to come up with a new plan. In short there are good ideas and some really bad ideas. for me It'll mean the end of my SL dayz I came from EQ2 and because of there arrogance I cancelled my account. This will happen here as well (3 active accntsatm) This is not a threat at all just simply I came here because of the uniqueness of LL's ideaoligy. well turns out it doesn't suit mine or most anyone elses idea of fair game play. Only the longterm already established (L$'sbanked) will weather this storm. New players will have to struggle greatly. i once again want to say the only ones that make this game fun are the players and once again the company running it screw it up. LL please come up with a better plan I like my SL friends but don't want to go begging in the streets. I'll reveiw the outcome and make a decision based on how LL forces me to play the game. My suggestions will go unheard so I'll be at discussion groups in one of my forms.i don't actually see the rich get richer and I for one will not use my US$'s to fund my ingame play. I just see LL forcing new players to do something most don't want to do. My favorite past time of going to bingo and seeing the same nice people will nearly come to an end and so will majority of my funtimes :-)
Devlin Gallant
Thought Police
Join date: 18 Jun 2003
Posts: 5,948
01-11-2005 08:23
From: Raiden Karuna
+ A reduction in fees paid to support events to cover only those events deemed educational
+ A 50% reduction in the bonus amounts paid out as weekly 'Stipend Ratings'

gee, now im going to have to convince SL that my *500L BEST TOPLESS PARTY@DA PENTHOUSE* is educational... :mad:

I think this change will piss off a lot of people , mainly club owners like me, and affect SL overall in a negative way. I have had multiple people (WELL ESTABLISHED PLAYERS OF SL AND CLUB OWNERS) IM me saying they are SERIOUSLY considering quitting SL and a few moving to TSO just because of this. I have also heard of a strike in the makings. Just some info! I don't think its a very good idea..
:(

-sad sl club owner.


Anything that MIGHT reduce the number of clubs can in no way be negative.
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Cromulence DeGroot
Cromulent User
Join date: 13 Sep 2004
Posts: 135
01-11-2005 09:23
From: Alicia Eldritch
An income tax would make things MUCH worse.

Keynes was wrong, folks. The US economy is slowly dying proof.
[...]
But the alternatives would be much worse. Worst of all would be creeping rampant inflation, that erodes the society from within.


Alicia, I believe the game you are looking for is LOLbertaria. Have fun there.

Anyhow, a small amount of inflation is actually a good thing if increasing consumer spending is desirable, since it acts as a disincentive for people to hoard currency.

On the other hand, any inflation at all is a bad thing for people who want to hoard L$ and sell them on GOM.

Currency flowing into the hands of the poorest players is a good thing for the lower and middle tiers of the economy, since they will most likely turn around and spend it on items and clothes made by people who are only a bit higher up than themselves in the economy.

On the other hand, it's bad for people trying to sell their hoarded L$ on GOM because there's little incentive for the average player to buy.

In the long term, having the average player be the "source" of currency in SL will benefit the entire SL economy all the way up to the top, and benefit LL too, because the whole economy revolves around catering to the average player, making SL more fun to play, and increasing the number of new players.

In the short term, someone who has a lot of L$ they've been waiting to sell on GOM must be absolutely loving this new economic plan. However, it will probably screw SL and LL pretty badly in the long run.

Hmm, I wonder if any of the Lindens would have been able to hoard a lot of L$ through alts over a long period of--NAH!! :rolleyes:

Personally I don't have anything invested in the SL economy so I am going to enjoy sitting back and watching this train wreck. A real benefit here might be all the Serious Business types cashing out and leaving, the SL economy being reformed again when the Lindens realize that there's more to monetary policy than what they can read on Wikipedia, and the people who enjoy the game for itself sticking around and having a good time if LL doesn't sink the whole ship.

wtg LL! This is a really fucking retarded thing to do, but it will be damn funny to watch. I hope the company that buys you out of bankruptcy has more of a clue than you do. Shine on you crazy diamonds!
Chip Midnight
ate my baby!
Join date: 1 May 2003
Posts: 10,231
01-11-2005 09:33
From: Cromulence DeGroot
wtg LL! This is a really fucking retarded thing to do, but it will be damn funny to watch. I hope the company that buys you out of bankruptcy has more of a clue than you do. Shine on you crazy diamonds!


Ahhh, so I guess you believe that the only reason anyone plays SL is for the free money handouts, and that being able to afford one less shirt per week is such a horrible hardship that everyone will leave in droves. Riiiiigggghhhhhhtttt. Overreact much?
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Cromulence DeGroot
Cromulent User
Join date: 13 Sep 2004
Posts: 135
01-11-2005 09:40
From: Chip Midnight
Ahhh, so I guess you believe that the only reason anyone plays SL is for the free money handouts, and that being able to afford one less shirt per week is such a horrible hardship that everyone will leave in droves. Riiiiigggghhhhhhtttt. Overreact much?

Ahhh, so I guess you don't even have a basic high school education since you obviously can't read and comprehend a few paragraphs of text. Post ignorant blather to the forms much? Personally I don't care if LL takes away stipends entirely or gives everyone L$1,000,000 a minute, but a lot of the people who play do, and certainly a lot of the people who pay LL serious money for owning land and crap like that do. SL wouldn't have an economy to speak of if people did not care about those things. Ignore reality much?
Chip Midnight
ate my baby!
Join date: 1 May 2003
Posts: 10,231
01-11-2005 09:44
Ignore reality? Hardly. I'm one of those business owners who pays $195 a month. All that's happening is that ratings bonuses are being halved. For a typical SL resident that means about $250 less a week in stipend... the cost of one or two shirts. That's hardly the end of the world, and certainly isn't going to cause the sky to fall on anyone's head.
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Nephilaine Protagonist
PixelSlinger
Join date: 22 Jul 2003
Posts: 1,693
01-11-2005 09:46
I, for one, am thouroughly entertained by the mass freakout.
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Artillo Fredericks
Friendly Orange Demon
Join date: 1 Jun 2004
Posts: 1,327
01-11-2005 09:46
"I am simply blown away after reading this post in its entirety."
/laughs

who really cares? Who is actually in this world to collect dwell, ratings, and stipends?
I mean COME ON people get real!!!
LOL Is that why we are all really here?
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Talen Morgan
Amused
Join date: 2 Apr 2004
Posts: 3,097
01-11-2005 09:49
From: Nephilaine Protagonist
I, for one, am thouroughly entertained by the mass freakout.



Me too :D

Gonna be selling popcorn at all the protest marches and riots :p
Chip Midnight
ate my baby!
Join date: 1 May 2003
Posts: 10,231
01-11-2005 09:57
From: Nephilaine Protagonist
I, for one, am thouroughly entertained by the mass freakout.


I've been wondering what to do with some of my land. It's all become clear to me now. I'll build a soup kitchen! :D
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Artillo Fredericks
Friendly Orange Demon
Join date: 1 Jun 2004
Posts: 1,327
01-11-2005 09:59
LOL Chip... do we get Navy Bean (ACK) or chicken noodle or Prim Soup?

yes we are Capitalist Pigs LOL Can I get an OINK??? :p
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Siobhan Taylor
Nemesis
Join date: 13 Aug 2003
Posts: 5,476
01-11-2005 10:00
From: Chip Midnight
I've been wondering what to do with some of my land. It's all become clear to me now. I'll build a soup kitchen! :D


I'll come round later with a wagonload of croutons :)
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Chip Midnight
ate my baby!
Join date: 1 May 2003
Posts: 10,231
01-11-2005 10:01
From: Siobhan Taylor
I'll come round later with a wagonload of croutons :)


Why did that just make me think of soylent green? hehe ;)
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Siobhan Taylor
Nemesis
Join date: 13 Aug 2003
Posts: 5,476
01-11-2005 10:03
From: Chip Midnight
Why did that just make me think of soylent green? hehe ;)

Maybe you just know me better than is healthy for mental stability. Oddly, they were green *looks round* plankton-sourced croutons...
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Nephilaine Protagonist
PixelSlinger
Join date: 22 Jul 2003
Posts: 1,693
01-11-2005 10:04
LOL!
We need aprons and ladles. STAT!
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Artillo Fredericks
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Join date: 1 Jun 2004
Posts: 1,327
01-11-2005 10:05
"SOYLENT GREEN IS PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!!"
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Siobhan Taylor
Nemesis
Join date: 13 Aug 2003
Posts: 5,476
01-11-2005 10:06
Actually it's newbies, but don't tell 'em that or they'll stop trying to get into the oldbie control centre.
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