ATTENTION CREATORS! (This can bring your business to a STANDSTILL)

Heh I tried this (with my own objects of course, mabey thats why I had trouble) and nothing happened. So complete idiots like me will ahve no use for this script becasue we cant figure out how it works ^_^

Suppose you had someone who would prioritize their own personal gain over the progress of the community. What words would you use to describe this person?

I hope you guys realize that any half-decent scripter can make a prim copier in 5 minutes... it doesnt take a genius to run llGetPrimitiveParams and then pipe it into llRezObject and llSetPrimitiveParams.
Prim copiers have been around since at least last summer, which is when Ming Chen demoed his to me, back when we were working with Foxy on what became Sim Horror.
In fact, I'm working on something like that myself. A side effect of being able to export and import SL objects to and from OSMP means that anyone who can be bothered installing our software will be able to copy objects to it and then copy them back to SL any number of times. Do you want people to have an offline editor for SL or not?
I am certainly not going to refrain from working on my project just because it could be used to copy your products, nor will I or the OSMP dev team be taking any responsibility for it.

It's also REALLY tedious to copy high-prim items, as my attempts at building primatars/manniquins have taught me; it may be possible to automate the process but Jeff's script is a matter of manually inserting the "activation script" into each prim.

Really, the only things in "danger" are things where (a) the actual look, texture, etc of the prims is the selling point and (b) the user will require modify privledges of some kind. The downside is, that describes a great many prim-based clothing/cosmetic attachments....

While I disagree with Hiro's post over in the "Hotline to the Lindens" - the ability to copy prims via scripting is too useful and valuable to give up - I do agree that adding a "no modify contents" flag wouldn't be a bad idea.

I just added another Hotline post about this. If some Linden wants to give me grief about it being redundant, they can kiss my ass. They've known about the scripted-copying issue since it was brought up during the Cory permissions fiasco last year. And of course we've known about it for far longer.

Not a socialist/communist?

I'm beginning to seriously wonder just how many people are actually taking the time to read my responses here.

If there is nothing else to add, I am going to move this thread be closed before the personal attack phase takes over.

If you want to discuss this, try speaking to me directly. I've done my best to speak directly to several people over this, I pulled the code, and you can read the exact list of what I did for this several months ago earlier in this thread.

Thank you. If anything, while I'm not afraid to continue on, this has come at me at a time when I'm already under a lot of stress - and have final projects and tests to tend to. The real impact has demoralized me greatly, even if I intend to continue posting my own work here with the exact same level of scrutiny that I have before any of this happened. I will also continue posting to the Scripting Tips forum as I have done.

To those of you that wished to drop the bomb on me, I certainly hope you're pleased with yourselves. Really. Kasandra excluded - who was actually kind enough to speak with me in a polite manner in-world - many of the incendiary responses here have stayed that way. Some of the people involved even hid from me in-world when I attempted to contact them. I will not be posting names, because you know who you are and what you've said.

Remember, there is a real person at the other end of the keyboard here. I'm actually doing my personal best to not lash out and start collecting torsos with flaming, simply because it would not solve matters. There are a couple of people here that may deserve that kind of treatment - but I will not be the person to give it.

At that, I am declaring this thread officially over. If you wish to continue on the issue, start a new one. I will be contacting Pathfinder or another mod to lock it here, should they be willing to do so.

And for those that understand the situation, I appreciate it. Really.

At the very least, I hope this has raised awareness to some of the breakthroughs I have made to help the community. But at what cost?

To those of you listening, I certainly hope you can get to sleep tonight over your actions - both positive and negative. Because I can personally say this has been hell for me.

After all:

Jeff, thanks for replying and being a decent guy about it.


*nods*

Okay, that wasn't clear. I apologize if that was in one of your posts and I missed it.

We scripters walk a fine line when it comes to finding exploits... I actually did something similar back when I discovered how to spy on someone without a trace; I was told "not to worry about it" by an unnamed Linden. Since then, the bug will be sealed up with the anti-ghosting upgrades that were slotted for 1.6 and should be in one of the upcoming point releases.

I appreciate the gamble you're taking, and realizing now the process you went through, I take back any remarks I have about it being abuse; perhaps if I were you, I would have more clearly stated that there was Linden discussions, when I posted the script. (in bold and large font)

You seem to be a decent guy, Jeffrey. I hope this gamble pays off.

BTW, I wasn't trying to name call when I said not a socialist or communist. I think its fine to be a socialist or communist. I was just answering the question literally to see where Francis was going with it.

All I see I this thread is the shameless utter greed and hostility of Second Life's community's Warmongers and Instigators. As ive read, a hell of a lot of the latter.

Instead of this redundant WITCHHUNT how about a solution as posted earlier.
You can argue all you want, but the truth is that the tool does make building complex prims easier.
I realize that theft can occur using this script, but slamming its creator with accusations of scripting it out of spite is not the way to go about it. I myself am a builder and id hate the idea of someone copying something that took me all day to create and distribute it like its Christmas, but we are all grown ups in here (or so I’ve come to believe) lets start acting like it instead of pointing fingers like spoiled preschoolers.

1. As I read, "No mod" makes the object unable to receive foreign scripts.

2. Creators that claim they need mod off because they want the users to control the color of the object can do so via scripts.

3. The ones that create small figurines and such can just drop a script to make it no mod as a security measure. It will just take a teeny tiny bit more effort (dropping a script).

4. I personally have tested the script and It dose not copy textures as posted earlier. please prove me wrong.

5. Creating a petition to Linden Labs to implement a mirror tool in their interface that only allows the users prims to be copied. Although I thought this script did the same.

I am relatively new than some of you yet try learning new things each day. Communication is one of them. It’s not easy, but I try. Lets all try to work together and find a friendly resolve to this.

PS: No. I do not know Jeffrey from a hole in the wall, I only know him through his work that BTW is Ace!
I’d hate to see a good coder be run off by the paparazzi.

I’ve seen builders kick their long-time SL friends off their land because they begin making steady Lindens off their product! Greed takes over! All of a sudden, there buddies aren’t cool anymore…Just a waste of good space.
If this is what L$$$ creates, then perhaps we have benefited far too much. I wonder what would happen if LL pulled the plug on SL money. I bet most of you shudder at the idea.

Have you tried this yourself? It's a pain in the ass when you have more than one or two prims, and in my opinion a waste of sensors and scripts.

It's also not the only reason. What if I want to let someone resize an object, or layer on custom textures, or maybe let them link on extra prims? or just change the shape of a prim?


I don't see why developers should be forced to add scripts to a great number of their objects just to protect exploitation. It's a waste of sim resources.


I believe the point was all you need to do is edit it slightly to make it do so.


Again, the script can easily be modified.


I don't know your specific cases, but maybe they ran out of prims and felt like their friends could afford $6/month for their own land after leeching off them for a while?


Yes many of us would shudder, and rightfully so.

Hiro Pendragon
Have you tried this yourself? It's a pain in the ass when you have more than one or two prims, and in my opinion a waste of sensors and scripts.

"Hiro, although i respect your opinion, many vehicles and bots are built in this fashion and put it to good use to boot. They work just fine. then again, what do i know, im just a builder right..."

Hiro Pendragon
It's also not the only reason. What if I want to let someone resize an object, or layer on custom textures, or maybe let them link on extra prims? or just change the shape of a prim?

"Why would I allow anyone to dismantle with my work to begin with? Not only are most objects currently sold non mod, but also non transfer as well. Id have to greatly dissagree on that one man. Thats like me selling away a fine sculpure I worked hard on just to have the person tear off its head and put polkadots on it. although the object is now yours it wasnt as the artist envisioned it to look. I guess im speaking from and artistic standpoint. I mean really, I draws us back to the beggining again. Leave my work the way it is thank you."

Hiro Pendragon
I don't see why developers should be forced to add scripts to a great number of their objects just to protect exploitation. It's a waste of sim resources.

"If one script wont suffice for a group of linked objects, Id have to agree with you."

Hiro Pendragon
I believe the point was all you need to do is edit it slightly to make it do so.

"And this script made that possible??? seems more like embelishment to me."

Hiro Pendragon
Again, the script can easily be modified.

"So your telling me I can rip someone work using the tools supplied in SL? wow... wonder why noone has exploited that."

Hiro Pendragon
I don't know your specific cases, but maybe they ran out of prims and felt like their friends could afford $6/month for their own land after leeching off them for a while?

"Or... mabey they didnt. mabey they just decided that the space could make more money wich comes right back to greed. Its open to individual interpretation I guess."

Hiro Pendragon
Yes many of us would shudder, and rightfully so.[/QUOTE]

"But woulnt it make SL a better place? no more L$, no more stabbing your neighbors in the back."


I havent heard of object-theft yet since this global scare. Im sure I never will. but if so, save your torches and pinchforks. It be interesting to see how many get kicked because of theft since their name are on the object they fraudulenty copy and distribute.

The Scousers say: Calm Down, Calm Down!


PS: Please pardon my typos, Its late. just wanted to give Hiro something to read. =) Kickass scriptor BTW.

Sure, and:
(a) Many use listens that add a significant lag to SL.
(b) I use a script to customize my katanas' color using a central listener tha broadcasts link messages to all other pieces; I speak from knowledge that it's a pain, because to customize multiple areas different colors, I need to put different scripts in a variety of prims... it's annoying for doing a dozen or so prims, and it really must be a royal pain for some of the color-customizable, 100+ prim armor and jewelry I've seen.
(c) Your logic is flawed - just because some things work fine doesn't mean they all don't.


Sure, and you have that option with no mod.

But that's not what I was talking about. Please re-read my last post where I describe the variety of reasons a person might want to customize color, shape, texture, size, but don't want the contents mucked with.

OR

Perhaps someone wants to mix customizable prims with static ones.

Whatever. The whole point is to enable builders to have more options, not less. I think you'd see the logic in that.


You excessive use of punctuation is embelishment; saying the script could be edited slightly to make it violate the TOS is truth, as admitted by the creator. However, Jeffrey has explained the process he's gone through to make LL aware of his research, and he doesn't endorse using this for bad means, so it seems to me that he's genuine when he claims to look for reform.



People have. It's also been a trade secret with scripters. We're a small enough community that we have fairly good control on keeping scripting to an air of creativity and scientific research.

But, I could also script nasty griefing tools and viruses using LSL, which is a scripting tool supplied in SL. Does that mean I should? No, of course not. Does that mean if I find an easy exploit like this one that I will pass the info along to the development team? It sure does, and I have.


Absolutely, that's a possibility. However, your assertion was that all people who don't allow their friends to use their land are greedy. To disprove your assertion, I needed but to show 1 good counterexample.


Sure, since LL would shut down having no money, there'd be no one playing SL left to stab anyone else.

Look, you can't blame inanimate objects over their use by people. You blame the people. If I go around assaulting people with books, 2x4s, and fire hoses, does that mean we should ban books, lumber, and water?

Or should we just ban land ownership? How about we ban ownership in general? Or maybe we'll go communist and divee out everything equally? Let some politicians ration out all of our property?


Did you miss the photos posted on page 1, post 1 of this thread?
Have you not read posts about people reselling freebie items?



I appreciate it... I like a good back-and-forth on the forums that doesn't resort to name-calling. We debate these issues, sometimes heatedly, so that we can flush out the reasons why we lobby for things. It makes the logic behind our decisions stronger.

Good day to you

I'm sorry, but I have to be with Jeffrey on this topic. The problem is NOT the fact that he made such a script, but the fact THAT IT CAN BE MADE.

Is it any better if only a handful of "elite" people can copy your objects and set up a business? Or maybe they'll just sell the same script on the "black market" for L$ 10 000 to losers who'll try to copy things. Once the thing is out of the bottle, it can't be put back in

Could LL fix this? Yes. Just make a "no script adding" option, that denies the user the possibility of adding scripts, or maybe deny just some "dangerous" functions like llGetPrimitiveParams(). Maybe an option isn't really needed, but it would be better, because there CAN be legitimate uses of it (i saw someone making a 'car crush' by taking mod, no-transfer but copy objects and putting in a script that set it to physics, and 'blew it up'. It looked cool

Hiro,
You Win. =)

This will continue to get bounced back and forth till we turn old and gray.
I love the script, Its fun to mirror your objects so you do not have to break your head figuring out the other side. too bad it turned out bad for a few of you.

Perhaps a few "Elite" coders can pitch in ideas on how to make it a better tool.
It is what it is after all... A tool. what is done with it (as you pointed out) is up to the user.

No more instigation please.
'Nuff said.

Awesome Zonax, Id have to try that out some time.
Ok, im off to build.