The entire thing in one sentence...

Well ok, several sentences, but you'll see what I mean.... I have to admit, when I read this, I immediately thought of Marie Antoinette:



"Let them eat cake!", anyone?

Then I read this, and realised there isn't that much to fret over after all... these folks don't have the diplomacy or self-control to keep up the charade long enough to get LL to take them seriously:



Between this showcase of kindness and compassion for the average player/resident and classic cerebral spikes from ol Porky:



(set in context)



Indeed... how else can one know just how to abuse the system without being punished unless one has the rules handy to skate along the line of...?

I realised.... the very insistence these folks have that offends is the insistence that will insure they shoot themselves in the head long before they can get their "FIC 4 Real!" movement off the ground.

Then the moment of truth arrived like a beautiful rainbow and all things were revealed:



That explains SO much.

*chortle* er... yep

Well my one sentence would be "Get over yourselves."

But that really doesn't sum it up: "So what?" Does a nice job, but its a bit terse.

I think Shakespeare sums all this up, including both sides.

"A tale told by an idiot: full of sound and fury, signifying nothing."

One question for you, Jake: "Why do you mindlessly support someone who does not like you, does not care about you or people like you, and would very much like to see your rights abrogated so that he can continue enacting his schizoid fantasy about being the savior of the metaverse?"

It's a long sentence, but it's one which you have to answer truthfully before I will ever again lend any credence to what you say.

Ardith, you are being entirely too hard on poor old Shakespeare.

Well my support for Prokofy is not mindless. I am not sure I would say he does not like me, I fail to see how anyof this abrogates my rights any more than the FIC already did, to whatever extent that is. I don't think he has a schizoid fantasy about being the savior of the universe, and even if so, I don't think that is any more of fantasy than SL witll be the next internet.

I point of fact I often disagree with Prokofy on the subject of telehubs among other things. I do agree with him that SL is about the rights of all players to enjoy the game, and that for some people this game is not about capitalisim or tekki-wikkism. It is about socializing, playing tringo and having fun. So i resent it when other people tell me how I "have" to play SL.

I have advocated positions which Prokofy would find communist, since I think the stipend should be increased across the board so that new and casual players can come in and take better advatage of the things SL can offer. This suggestion is of course anathema to those whose incomes are depending on the high value of the linden.

I support prokofy entirely on one issue: I do not feel his banning was justified baed on his conduct. I feel that a group of people, some of whom I number among my friends (and hope they forgive me for taking this position) decided his ides were to unpopular, his posts were too long, or not gramaitcally correct, and they ran him off the forum by shouting loud enough that the Lindens Banned him not for a true TOS Violation, but becuase it was good policy to do so.

I know that Prokofy did make some untoward attacks on certian people. I aslo can think of at least three others who are posting to day who have mande many more personal attacks than Prokofy ever did, who are posting today.

The reason I support prokofy, and support anyone who calls for equal enforcement of the TOS and a more transparent enforcement system is because to my mind, I watch a bunch of people push and attack prokofy to the point where he was constantly lashing back, and put on the defensive. Then he was run off the forums as a business decision. Frankly I can see the same thing happening to me, or to you, or to Coco.

So you may post all the condescending posts you want about not trusting me. I truly don't care what you think of me, as you have never given me a reason to respect your opinion. But the truth is, I see everyone position on these forums very fragile. It is easy to get in a heated debate about one small issue, and then have a whole community decide you are divisive and a danger to the progress of SL. We know if they scream loud enough, the Lindens will listen to the posters on the forum. If I am ever banned, I want the whole world to know why.

And that is my reason for supporting prokofy.

Well than and he is my landlord.

Oh, and for the record. My shakes spear quote applies equally across the board on the FIC/MJW issue. This uproar far exceeds any danger present by any group.

Hmm.. schizoid fantasy? I thought it was all just a game...

Some people really take this way too seriously.

I hate being in danger of taking myself, or SL, too seriously.

I agree and I think its time to catalog the other posts with the incredibly insulting slurs that are delivered with regularity by a few on the forums.

For me its all about evenhanded treatment. If Prok was banned for calling someone a name, why are the others who do that same thing regularly not banned as well.

Jake Reitveld = Prokofy Neva

Alas Jesrad, I am hardly prokofy neva. Read his blog. I am too connected to the FIC t be prok. And much to unashamed in my support for my freind aimee weber. I suppose if I am consistent with one thing, it is that I stick by the people I call my freinds, even if we disagree on some things, and they hate each other. I will give you that I am an asshole, but I am not a liar, and I am not disloyal.

Wrong. But if you actually did the research, you would know this. So one must conclude you really have no interest in fact. Oh well.



The only reason Prokovy Neva ever wanted to know or care about what the rules were was so they could figure out how best to skirt the edge of them, harrass others, and not be disciplined for it.

As with any such effort, eventually the fool misjudged and got banned for it.

Tough cookies.

As for consistancy, there's really only one truth that need be accepted. It is simple, succinct, and axiomatic:

Linden Labs makes the rules. They can change them at will or whim. If you, as a customer, do not wish to be subject to their rule and their rules, you have a choice. Make it.

Prokovy Neva could have chosen more wisely at any point in time. Prokovy Neva did not do so. Prokovy Neva now lives with the consequences of not choosing wisely. Life goes on, and hard as it may be to believe, with not even a tenth as much angst, drama, or fear as some wish to portray. Obviously Prokovy Neva did not find the consequences unfair, as they are still present in the world and working hard to wreak division and conflict in much the same manner as they did upon these forums.

Who knows? Perhaps the lesson remains unlearned and the poor fool will get themselves banned all together if they keep it up. I suppose somehow that would be the fault of the 'Evil, Evil FIC' too. (chuckle)



The world knows why Prokovy Neva was banned. The only people who don't are those who choose not to know.

The MJW movement is an abject failure for one very simple reason -- those who initiated it were anything but sincere in their motivation and unable to curb their resentment, anger, greed, and hunger for power long enough to fool those who needed to be fooled.

Whose fault is that.... gee, I wonder.

Suprisingly enough I did do the research, hell I am one of the few who read Prokofy's Biblically long posts.

And I do know the very reason why Prokofy was banned. And it might shock you.

I can accept that you disagree with my conclusions, of course. But my interpretation of the events is based on facts, and on that interpretation I am sure we will never agree.

The core of my position is not relating to the merits of prokofy's banning for whatever personal attacks he may or may not have made, it is rather focused on the fact that other people have made many personal attacks more often than prokofy and they are not banned. To my mind the difference is the unpopularity of the poster. I adovate transparent justice because, Cienna, I am afraid the next action could be taken against you and I for saying SL is a game. The only way I am comfortable with that is if the discipline system is fixed.

And I am not a member of the MJW movement. This is my own persoanl crusade and it has been all along. I suippose we can go post by post through the past and we can debate each thread so I can explain where I am coming from, but really at the end of the day, we are just going to disagree on this one. But I would never suggest you are not interested in facts.

Considering that you are not privy to conversations, warnings, and related material that is the majority part of Linden Lab's determination on how to treat residents who consistantly and deliberately break their rules, I fail to see how you think you have all evidence from which to judge with the degree of certainty you declare. This and this alone leads me to think you are not interested in the facts because, quite simply, the facts are not present in these forums.

I reiterate -- Linden Labs is not obligated to answer to their customer base as to their internal policies, nor to qualify themselves to us. If we have issue with that, we have full choice as to whether or not we wish to give our business to them.

We have no legal standing from which to assert 'rights' in this arena, as you well know.

The political lobby to gain control over certain aspects of Linden Labs workings is both out of line and could itself be considered a violation of the EULA and ToS, particularly the clauses to which we each agreed dealing with what rights we waive in return for access to enjoy this game.

Not to mention that an argument could certainly be made that this deliberate, repeated, and focused attempt to gain control of other customers within the game world could be construed as an attempt to deny service... something that is explicitly prohibited.

Now granted, Ms. Chung hardly has a record of this behavior. Others of this latest effort, however, are not as fortunate.

Maybe some customers need to be a little more careful.

So you are okay being banned from the game for this exaggerrated personal attack?

Almost everything you say here is unsupported opinion and entirely derogatory. This is the very definition of personal attack by the forum rules.

Even if I ignore the rampant hyperbole, in the second part that I bolded in particular, you seem to making libelous unsupported statements about the intent of people you have no way of knowing about. I mean you are talking about their personal intent which you could not possibly know even if you were joined at the hip.

Even if we ignore the fact that you could be RL sued for making such statements, (it is a crime after all), what about the fact that this violates the TOS and the forum rules?

This is what I was talking about in my other posts.

I mean I dont personally want to see you banned and I am not going to AR the post, but can't everyone see how emotionaly based this debate is? Normal, intelligent, and basically nice folks like Cienna (and lots of others) are making statements that make Anshe (and now Prok) seem like Hitleresque figures???

They just aren't. This whole debate is nuts!

And the fact that people are going so far "over the top" in their reaction to this thing tells me a hell of a lot more than the actual content of the accusations.

There is a large group of folks that seem to have an intense unreasoning hatred of Prokofy and Anshe.

OK,... I got it.
(like a thousand posts ago)

With all due respect, prove it. If you cannot, why say it at all?



You have no idea what I do or do not know. You may be surprised. Indeed, I am certain you would be surprised.



Untrue. Intent is the determiner in such cases. Kindly note I am stating my opinion, which I am as free to hold and, more importantly, hold forth, as anyone.



Allow me to correct you here. You are incorrect in your assumption that I am emotionally vested in this discussion, these forums, or Second Life itself. I am, in every case, and unless explicitly stated otherwise, sharing my opinion on things.... usually with tact, sometimes without it, depending upon how ridiculous I think things have gotten.

You have to admit, the very idea that a group of customers would demand control of a service product is pretty darn ridiculous. But even more ridiculous is that anyone could possibly think such a thing workable.



Hatred is a pointless waste of time and energy. I assure you that there are people in my world, my REAL world, that I have far more reason to hate and do not, and two personas in a game are so far from being on the list of potentials that you might as well say they do not exist on the same plane.



No, I don't think you do. You see, my indignation stems from the pure gall of the terminally disgruntled and perpetually power hungry... here... in a game.

Mindboggling. Truly.

I've been thinking about doing exactly that.

coco

Physician, heal thyself.

Then what will you do? Read them endlessly and cry quietly to yourself at the injustice of it all?

You are referring, of course, to the vast number of personal attacks *I* have made?

coco

No I am referring to your penchant for endlessly dwelling on what you perceive to be personal attacks.

It won't stop it if you scrapbook them now will it?

So what will you accomplish save making yourself even more miserable?

You don't want to report.

You don't want to use mute.

You refuse to use the tools provided you for dealing with what you claim are "personal attacks". So perhaps you just like to be offended so you have something to talk about, someone to defend, or some point to prove. I dunno, but I do know it's not healthy.

You speak about it constantly, yet it's been shown you have no power over others to effect the changes you desire.

You now want to scrapbook all the negativity you perceive.

Sounds like a fulfilling existence.

I had the same problem you have Coco, when I was young, and after some work, my parents finally got it through my head that if something bothers me to the point of obsessing over it, that perhaps I was a large part of the problem.

Not you, Cienna.

coco

Well this ain't going anywhere and the thread has already passed on, but...

I dont have to prove it, you do it yourself in the post.

What you said was a straight out personal attack.
You defend it by saying it's your "opinion" (that makes it okay?), and imply that it is based on things that "you know," but can't talk about, (which is the oldest dodge in the book.)

It's hardly fair, and a violation of the TOS, to post stuff about folks "evil", "greedy", ...etc. intents. Intentions you can in no way actually know. That is just a basic reality (unless you have some mind-reading device?)

What if I posted that "I know" that Cienna is plotting to overthrow the US Government, because "I know" that in her heart she is a muslim terrorist?

I will throw your own words back in your face.
If you can prove it, do so, otherwise refrain from the personal attacks and opinions and stick to what you *can* prove.

If you made a post like that about me I would totally AR you and get as many of my friends to do so as I could.

Actually, if you want to be perfectly technical and correct, it was an attack of the events, not the people themselves. I do understand that most never make the distinction, and that accounts for much of the hysteria in any given situation here.

And no, I do not have to defend my opinion, not to you nor anyone else.



In case no one ever told you, life is not fair. Nor will it ever be so.

It is not a ToS violation to post your opinion that an event occurred because of reason X, Y, or Z. No, not even if it means someone thinks poorly of someone else.

As for 'knowing', the archive of chats on this matter very directly support the veracity of things and nicely underscore that much of the motivation and intent behind the effort was precisely as I opined it to be... so yes, they are now as 'known' to all as they were to me at the onset.



I'd laugh. You see, that's another aspect of this that is revealing -- no one has the power to hurt you unless you give it to them. Someone's opinion must matter before it can hurt. If more people actually accepted in themselves their need to be liked and approved by total strangers, and worked through it to a point and place of self-value independent of it, all this hysteria over 'hurt feelings' would be a non-issue.



If I were in any way bothered by an assertion, I would take the time to disprove it. In the face of my silence on any matter, you may ever conclude my complete lack of disquiet. Promise.



Such is your right, of course. But you don't get to assume outrage for others. No matter how you try, sorry.