its really sad :(

If I had a store where one of my employes was standing talking about why a customer should leave...


Kick them out straight away... Normal people dont do this things...

I dont know the specifics about the exchange in question. But, simply telling people that they should not be in SL, in itself, is not a crime. I have (sadly) told many people that they should not waste their time with SL. When my conversation takes this course, it is due to learning that the user has sub par equipment or on dialup and their experience wont be rewarding. I explain that SL is very demanding and they should put off SL until they can get their system and connection updated and come back when they can enjoy it.

But, I suspect that this is not the type of conversation that took place. I really wonder the motivation for simply ragging on SL and driving people away. I like Hiro's suggestion to have the welcome area have a more strict rating. Literally taken, it is a "welcome" area. Everyone that bothers to be down there should have the foremost goal of being ready to help and answer questions of new people. Having friends around to pass the time is fine, but you have to be mindful that the WA is the first impression for most everyone that joins SL. It needs to be a safe and welcoming place, somewhat free of controversy. SL is a big place and there are plenty of places that people can go to express their opinion and freedom of speech, but the welcome area needs a tighter standard.

I agree with you. Banning people is not the answer. But we need to do something. I dunno what would be best. I would hate to see people limited to the WA. But i don't think we should ignore it either.

Av sex is evil!

I don't want to argue either.

Of course this is what the forums are for.

I hope you aren't reading anything beyond my opinion. I am not upset, other than at the jackass who did this. I really respect the way you presented your opinion, and I respect your opinion as well. I just disagree, for the reasons stated in my last post.

For the record, I didn't call for a ban, and my position is similar to Hikaru's, that something should have been done, however, not a ban. Defaming someone's business on their own property is not cool.

We all depend on newbies. If we want to be playing SL a couple years from now, it is essential that new players join, and are not scared off by hypocrites. As I stated in my first post on this issue; if SL "isn't worth paying for", what the hell is that person doing in SL?

How do Egg People reproduce?

We don't. We're too jaded.

I was there. And saw the incident. This guy said people in sl were rude. He had been playing about 2 weeks. Was in quite a few groups, no rates. And he simply asked the linden how to cancel his account so he don't get charged. SL isn't for everyone. And I agree, this place can be rude.

Never mind grief and drama at the welcome area.. one look at the forums would be enough to put most newbies off. Well, it nearly did when I joined anyway (which was during the doom-fest after support for events was withdrawn). I guess it's in LL's favor that most people don't find the forums.

What we need in addition to the Welcome Area is a Goodbye Area, where people can hang around trying to convince people to leave.... ok, maybe not.

Don't you spoil other people's drama now, the other version is far more exciting and suitable for the forums.

If you don't agree, (perhaps because you're part of the problem), call it drama.

Hikaru, Oz, Jillian and Enabran are not getting off on drama. I know damn well they're sick of the way new users are being treated the second they get into SL, just so a few morons can get their jollies.

This isn't a matter of "freedom of speech", it's a matter of assholes getting their kicks on fresh meat and easy targets.

There is no 'protected right' to stand in a private venue such as SL and act like an asshole to whoever arrives. As mentioned, you can't stand in the lobby of Sears and give shit to whoever enters without being kicked off the property. But that sort of analogy has been made many times in the forums here, and all it yields is 16 year olds screaming about anarkee and 'censorship'.

It's all a matter of intent. The WA is now occupied by 'regulars' (Yes, I realize that they aren't ALWAYS there: even jerks have to sleep, eat, and work.) who pretty much make it their calling to spend their time there and harrass, intimidate, and demean whoever they can.

These are the same people who talk about the TOS as being too draconian, LL as being too 'ban happy' and labels anyone who complains about their behavior as a 'whiner'. The reason behind this is that 'rules' simply interfere with their chosen method of fun.

It's very similar to other online venues I've been part of, where a certain segment of the population sits at any common gathering area, spending all of their time haranguing people for wanting to spend all of their time at such a stupid place.

They're just your average garden variety bullies, the same sort of crap you see in grade school.

LL, as usual, is being too cautious. LL seems to have this "we want to please all of the people, all the time" attitude that isn't changing as SL is becoming more populated. Online ghettos are forming, and the WA is one of them. So yeah, something has to be done, and yeah, those who have their cheap thrills to lose are going to complain that LL is being too heavy handed.

LL spent the money and time to renovate the WA as a 'first impression' for new users, and haven't lifted a finger to do anything about how people are treated when they show up there. So it's acting as a filter. Those who don't want to deal with the asshattery in WA don't stay on SL. Those who find the jackass mentality appealing, they stay. So the WA acts in a sort of "asshole darwinist" manner .

LL is getting overextended, and are beginning to not be able to see the forest for the trees. People with really shitty demeanors are becoming the rule not the exception. But that's up to LL to make a decision on, not us.

In the end, they'll lose out more than we will.

Something does need to be done. The same annoying grief squad is there, over and over. despite their temporary suspensions. What I find hilarious is that they spend so many hours of their day playing SL telling other people it isn't worth playing! If that's your opinion... then why the hell are you still here? Let people formulate their own opinion without imposing your negative will upon new players. Jeez.

Prop 400 is still out there... Lindens, any chance of a response?

http://secondlife.com/vote/get_feature.php?get_id=400

Regards,

-Flip

What sucks is that there are tons of good eggs just beyond the WA. I would be concerned that new players would hit the gates and quickly decide that based on the behaviour of a few people at the WA, that we're all *&$#@'s. And quit.

Most people seem to find the majority of the sl population pretty welcoming, at least that's what new players have told me when I bump into them. So this situation is just sort of a shame.

Okay it's not drama, it's a very serious business. Remember however that the nasty person that said the bad things about our world was a newbie. What are we going to do to protect these newbies who are attacking other newbies that also need protecting?

Ok, FINALLY someone relates the chat exchange in more detail. After reading the first page of this thread, I was wondering if maybe the perp in question had simply told the newbie that, yes, it costs lots of money to own land.

What if he had? Or what if the newbie turned out to be a clueless TSO-Barbie/Ken. The kind that makes so many folks on this board break out into hives? It may not be up to the perp to determine if someone else will make a good SLer, but isn't it possible that someone could be fair-minded and still have some bad things to say about the world?

I've talked around 8 or 10 of my friends from other games into joining SL. They were friends I knew would understand and appreciate the finer points of this world, and who have enough brain power to figure out for themselves how to make money. I have other friends who would either be shocked into speechlessness by the X-rated portion of the content, or else whine incessantly about how there isn't enough to do. And many folks who would land in between.

My way of handling these people is simply to be honest -- SL is not for everyone (here's why), but here are the things I love about it (and list them). The rest is up to them. I'm actually surprised that such a high percentage of my other-game friends have become addicted to SL as much as I am.

Jillian, I really love your idea. I don't understand why regulars are allowed to return to the WA. There are plenty of help sites and sandboxes around (albeit overrun with ganking push-scripters) for those who are not really brand new any more. SL is so overwhelming in that first couple of hours that I firmly believe it should remain a protected area -- protected from those who have only had 2 weeks' experience here and yet feel like they have the weight to pass judgement on an entire virtual experience. Let these newbies make up their own minds and get out of the WA before they get their pudding poisoned.

PERSONALLY, I don't give a crap about noobies, I'll neg a noob no hesitation, though I need a reason. All noobs now a days come to sl just for the sex. Look at peoples profiles, they like 2 days old and member of so and so escorting service, noobies, you make me sick, pack your bags and go.

While I too think that people that hang at the Welcome Area just to cause problems and get attention are immature idiots, I do have a hard time believing that somone convinced a newb, without breaking any TOS, to leave Second Life without giving it a chance.

I mean really, would you leave SL, without giving it a fair shot, just because someone apporached you when you first entered and gave you a sales pitch on why it sucked???

I would think first that they are obviously a dissatisfied customer. Then I would probably, if a Linden was there with opposing viewpoints, think they were merely out to cause trouble, and then i would go along my merry way and see for myself, exploring and meeting folks.

If a newb was so impressionable to leave SL forever on the word of one person, well..I can only hope they make it through life okay.

People can express their opinions and viewpoints without breaking any rules. And as things stand now, they can even do it at the WA. I would think, that if one person was trying to convince a newb to leave SL, there would have been 3-4 people offering opposing viewpoints. There are so many great things about Second Life, that I can't really concieve of someone being able to out-argue someone who brought up the possibilites. In fact, this all seems almost staged. Perhaps just another side-show by the lamers that tend to hang out there and do their childish antics in a desperate bid for attention?


I've been approached by real jerks before when very new in an online game, and I was able to laugh them off, recognize them as jerks, and go see the world for myself, through my eyes.

can allways trust some posters to make enlightened, tolerant comments ...

I was hoping you were being sarcastic, but I'm not so sure now.

Check the generalizations at the door please. Any sentence beginning with "All noobs" is making assumptions that only leave YOU open for ridicule and embarrassment.

And Zoey weighs in with her usual well thought out and inspiring opinion.

You are always thinking about sex Zoey! Hun, why would you care what part of SL that the newer folks like? Why would you care what anyone in SL likes other than youself, if it doesn't hamper you in any way. It seems to bother you so much. Do you constatnly watch and judge what your neighbors do in RL too? There is help for that you know. Even a hotline number...

If anyone was witness to it, they should of tp'ed the noob out of that area.

Cat

LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

somebody call the moving van!!

I dont understand the motvies of people who want noobies to leave.

First - what do they care wether someone else likes SL or not - If its so bad they should log off. Convincing others to leave, is intentional Malice. Complaining how bad the game is to people they dont even know? Sure that should be cuase for dicipline.

Since by their own professed statements they doen want to be here - who is harmed by them being suspended or banned ?

Second - many games DONT allow you back to the noobie area. Once you leave , you leave.


Last - why is the motives of the noobies who joined SL any business of ours to judge? As long as they arent out to infringe on others enjoyment of Second Life, I see no reason to question anyone's reasons for being here.

All Of You Think Of Sl Sex As Your Way Of Fulfilling Your Fl Urges. So Don't Look At Me Like I'm The Weird One.....*rollseyes*