SL's Population Ranking
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Adam Zaius
Deus
Join date: 9 Jan 2004
Posts: 1,483
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01-09-2005 15:26
From: Alby Yellowknife No kidding smarty pants, duh!! My question was to Adam who counted Trial accounts and got 123,000 members as detailed in his graph. If you listened before you spoke, the recepient of the question would have been obvious. They are included because there is no efficient way of guaging whether or not they are trial, banned, cancelled or other inactive accounts. -Adam
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Teeny Leviathan
Never started World War 3
Join date: 20 May 2003
Posts: 2,716
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01-09-2005 16:24
From: Adam Zaius They are included because there is no efficient way of guaging whether or not they are trial, banned, cancelled or other inactive accounts.
-Adam Let us just accent the word efficient here. I had no idea this list existed before today, and its huge.
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The Default Avatars were created by Linden Lab They evolved. They rebelled. There are many copies. And they have a plan.
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Alby Yellowknife
Sic Semper Tyrannis
Join date: 5 Jun 2004
Posts: 1,148
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01-09-2005 17:53
From: Adam Zaius They are included because there is no efficient way of guaging whether or not they are trial, banned, cancelled or other inactive accounts.
-Adam If there is no efficient way of gauging they are trial, banned, cancelled, etc, then why include them at all? They don't represent the "real" number of SL users who are active.
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Shadow Weaver
Ancient
Join date: 13 Jan 2003
Posts: 2,808
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01-10-2005 05:37
From: Alby Yellowknife If there is no efficient way of gauging they are trial, banned, cancelled, etc, then why include them at all? They don't represent the "real" number of SL users who are active. Primarly because neither you nor Adam nor myself have access to who is active who is one time accounts and who is repetitive monthly paying accounts, Simple.
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Everyone here is an adult. This ain't DisneyLand, and Mickey Mouse isn't going to swat you with a stick if you say "holy crapola."<Pathfinder Linden> New Worlds new Adventures Formerly known as Jade Wolf my business name has now changed to Dragon Shadow. Im me in world for Locations of my apparrel Online Authorized Trademark Licensed Apparel http://www.cafepress.com/slvisionsOR Visit The Website @ www.slvisions.com
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Blake Rockwell
Fun Businesses
Join date: 31 Oct 2004
Posts: 1,606
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01-10-2005 06:05
Lineage has over a million subcribers? What is the deal with that game? It must be awful special.
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Alby Yellowknife
Sic Semper Tyrannis
Join date: 5 Jun 2004
Posts: 1,148
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01-10-2005 07:33
From: Shadow Weaver Primarly because neither you nor Adam nor myself have access to who is active who is one time accounts and who is repetitive monthly paying accounts, Simple. So in other words, Adam is guessing. His chart is 100% theoretical. SL could have 1 member or 123,000 members since the data used to come up with the graph cannot be relied on as valid. When is somebody going to swallow their pride and say "Adam your wrong, SL only has 15,000-20,000 members"???
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Alby Yellowknife
Sic Semper Tyrannis
Join date: 5 Jun 2004
Posts: 1,148
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01-10-2005 07:36
From: Blake Rockwell Lineage has over a million subcribers? What is the deal with that game? It must be awful special. Source: http://pc.gamezone.com/gzreviews/r17183.htmThe world is what you make of it. In the evolving world of Lineage, you can do whatever you wish, travel far and wide, embark on quests, lead warriors into battle, or just hunt monsters. NCsoft Corporation has created a fascinating world for this hybrid massively-multiplayer online role-playing game. But while some companies would be content to sit back and simply manage a game, the company is progressively advancing the gameplay. What that adds up to is a solid gaming experience that continues to challenge. If there is a drawback to the game, it would be in the very thing that makes this game exceptional * the presentation of new episodes, which are added periodically by the developers, but serve to expand the base of game play. Episode X introduced the Lair of Valakas, a new volcanic land mass with fire-breathing monsters and an incredibly powerful dragon. The episode builds on the dwarves’ role as ironworkers and craftsmen. Episode XI: Oren again expands the lands of Lineage with a snowy, cold region near the fiery lair of Valakas, and ruled over by an Ice Queen. The Ivory Tower of Oren is introduced. It is the ultimate school of magic, and there are new spells for both humans and elves available. But the constant upgrades pose a problem for gameplayers with slower modems. You will spend a long time downloading patches and game updates. The slower modems don’t seem to have a problem in gameplay, but it is the downloads that require time and patience. The game itself can be downloaded off the Internet or you can order a disk. The game can be played on either a Mac or PC. Players can choose between four different classes * knight, wizard, prince (or princess) and elf. Each character is defined by six ability levels: strength, dexterity, intelligence, constitution, wisdom and charisma (which is pretty standard stuff). There are also two main servers you can choose from, one of which offers non-PvP play. Patience seems to be a byword of this game. Just as players demonstrated that trait while receiving downloads, you will need to do the same when it comes to leveling up your avatar. It takes time * just as moving from place-to-place takes time. You walk; no running allowed. There is a teleportation system in place to speed up moving from one region to the other, but should you venture into the wilds, you will find yourself ambling along. Fortunately, if you die and are a newer player to the game, you won’t be penalized experience points. If you don’t like the simple venturing process (akin to Ultima Online), you can take a blood pledge and fight for your clan. Game controls and player interface are of the point-and-click variety, combining mouse and keyboard hotkeys. There is a bit of a learning curve here, but you will find some other players who are willing to help you by offering advice. The game has a fixed camera angle, and your avatar can be obscured by terrain elements. If you have engaged in a battle with some of the various creatures roaming the world, their bodies and any booty dropped can also be lost behind trees. The lighting is fixed, not all that dynamic, and when night falls, this world can be very bleak. However, for all that, Lineage is an intriguing game. Not geared for those who want to level up quickly, this is a game that fits the true and patient RPGer to a ‘T." The game is meant to be savored and enjoyed, and the elements of this world are definitely different. Lineage’s constant evolution is a vital element of this game, not only for players who will reap of the benefits of exploring new lands, but also for the sake of the game developers. There are several new MMORPGs on the horizon, and Lineage will have to continue to evolve to garner its share of players.
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Vudu Suavage
Feral Twisted Torus
Join date: 27 Jul 2004
Posts: 402
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01-10-2005 08:23
From: Alby Yellowknife So in other words, Adam is guessing. His chart is 100% theoretical. SL could have 1 member or 123,000 members since the data used to come up with the graph cannot be relied on as valid.
When is somebody going to swallow their pride and say "Adam your wrong, SL only has 15,000-20,000 members"??? This is crazy. Adam produces this detailed chart giving tons of interesting information, including day-by-day account creation figures. He tells us exactly what information he used, and when you don't understand the terms, he explains them to you with references. The data is what the data is, and it does give meaningful information on SL's population even if it's not the information you would most like to know. If you want to track every account and see how often they log on and whether they count as a "member" to you, then go ahead and do it, and make your own graph when you're finished. P.S. Thanks for the graph, Adam.
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Mia Jackson
Second Life Resident
Join date: 25 Oct 2004
Posts: 86
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01-10-2005 08:49
*Agrees with Vudu* Thanks, Adam! 
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Simon Oz
Perpetual Noob
Join date: 26 Dec 2004
Posts: 61
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01-10-2005 08:56
Bruce from MMOGCHART addresses the question of what constitutes a subscriber by his standards, since I guess the same contreversy has come up with his data.
"Secondly, there’s no universal consensus on what constitutes an active subscriber. Some companies may count players currently on their traditional first “free month” as a current subscriber, whereas others might not start counting them until after that period and the customer actually chooses to subscribe. Although the accounts that don’t subscribe get “subtracted’ a month later, such accounting could create a continuous effect of inflating the overall subscription total. Most MMOGs probably do this, but some may not, and this may make them appear slightly larger than they actually are. Still, after the initial launch of a game or an expansion, the actual monthly effect of such accounts should be relatively minor… perhaps on the order of 10%."
Actually, as a one-time $9.95er, do I count as population or am I counted as a cancelled / not activated account? I would think the latter, even though I'm in world and actually doing stuff (maybe that's been addressed in the numbers too but I can't recall). I'm also hoping the latter because if the 20k subscriber base is of people paying cash monthly, SL is in a pretty good financial position and therefore I can start to breathe easier about it being around in the long run.
PS: also good work Adam, it's interesting seeing these numbers from any angle. Any Lindens want to comment? (Although the real deal may be proprietary data).
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Lordfly Digeridoo
Prim Orchestrator
Join date: 21 Jul 2003
Posts: 3,628
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01-10-2005 09:48
From: Simon Oz Bruce from MMOGCHART addresses the question of what constitutes a subscriber by his standards, since I guess the same contreversy has come up with his data.
Actually, as a one-time $9.95er, do I count as population or am I counted as a cancelled / not activated account? I would think the latter, even though I'm in world and actually doing stuff (maybe that's been addressed in the numbers too but I can't recall). I'm also hoping the latter because if the 20k subscriber base is of people paying cash monthly, SL is in a pretty good financial position and therefore I can start to breathe easier about it being around in the long run.
LLabs includes one-timer 9.95 a month folks as an active player. At last count I think there were around 2500 land owners (not counting hidden islands). some back of the envelope calculations... If we assume across all tiers that the average tier is $25/month... Linden Labs makes $62,500 a month in revenue. If we include the 50 or so hidden islands... that's another $9750 (plus $49,000 in server startup fees) Also assume that LLabs gets another 1000 or so basic accounts purchased in a month, that's another $10,000 a month. So, about 72,250 a month in revenue. That's $867,000 a year in revenue. Seems kinda low, but then again, I'm just a fan. LF
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Eanya Dalek
Registered User
Join date: 1 Oct 2004
Posts: 231
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01-10-2005 10:14
SL is defying the masses... We grow while others crash and burn
Alby, one reason that SL doesn't decline like other mmorpg"s is that once people buy a basic one time subscription to SL, it doesn't cost them to remain a customer. So you don't see any massive exodus like in other games where it costs money every month.
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Kasandra Morgan
Self-Declared Goddess
Join date: 17 Mar 2004
Posts: 639
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04-13-2005 11:22
The thing is, the way SL is set up where you can pay 10 bucks and keep your account forever, that makes it virtually impossible to lose members because even if you quit playing, you won't delete your account in case you ever decide to return. So SL will always look like it is either growing or remaining steady.
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Zonax Delorean
Registered User
Join date: 5 Jun 2004
Posts: 767
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04-13-2005 11:35
From: Lordfly Digeridoo At last count I think there were around 2500 land owners (not counting hidden islands). They seem to be always giving out the developer incentives to 2% of the landowners (please confirm I'm right, though I just can't find the 2005 January post, that also said 2%  From the Linden Announcement forums: From: someone (2004) September's $US Developer Incentive's Winners This month's total awards payout is US$2,700 - a 17% increase over last month. The number of recipients - the 2 percent of landowners earning the most dwell - increased to 41. From: someone March Developer Incentive Winners! This month's total awards payout is USD $ $4,866.00. The number of recipients receiving Developer Incentive awards increased to 68 who will split the money in proportion to the traffic they received during the last month. More info about Dwell here If this is right: 2004 September: 2050 landowners 2005 March: 3400 landowners
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