Discussion: Second Life and "generation gaps"?

Perhaps it's just me, but let's take a good look at ourselves as a community.

It seems, to my limited observations anyway, that the SL community falls into three more or less distinct groups:

1) "oldbies", the folks who were here before SL became "big" (prior to version 1.2);

2) The "New Creators", folks who came in during or after 1.2 and mostly before 1.5 (more creative tendencies, less outwardly social)

3) The "New Socializers", folks who come mostly from other games (TSO, There) or from popular media advertisements (newspaper articles, banner ads, and so on), who mostly use SL as a wonderful communication tool.

Now, maybe it's just me, but generally, I tend to feel most "comfortable" around folks that are in the same "age range" as me... that is, anywhere from launch (may of 2003) to just after 1.2 was announced (january of 2004). I came in in July of 2003.

This is a generalization, of course. But my friends' born-on dates are usually around mine or much before (beta, launch, etc.)

Now, that doesn't automatically mean that I'm going to hate folks in other "groups". But it seems to me that I don't get the right "feeling" around other users with later born dates.

Perhaps it's the way that my "generation" uses SL as a whole. I mean, most of the people still around SL from launch are content creators, folks who spend most of their time avoiding people and making stuff, surrounding themselves with (by now) old friends. The numbers dwindle slowly, with little chance of any replenishment (and this may be why a lot of older players drop out... all their friends left).

Just speaking from my perspective, the "newest" person I hang aroudn with has a born date of January of 2004. Folks older than me have their own groups, folks younger than me have their own groups and hangouts.

Is it like this with anyone else? Do the newer folks keep to themselves? Do the 1.2-1.5 folks keep to themselves?

Is it just a social consequence of "birds of a feather, flock together"? Finding fellow newbies is a good way of getting used to software, after all....

Anyways, jsut rambling.

Discuss.

LF

Most of the residents I socialize with are those I have known for a long time, but recently I have been talking a lot more with people who came in-world only in the last few months. I found myself not really wanting to play a lot in the last six months because of friends that no longer play, but I haven't felt like that since I started talking to newer people. I find your theory to be very true to the way things are for me and others, but more and more older people are beginning to interact with the newer members since we lose older members more and more every day.

I think you missed a group:

4) pandastrong Fairplay

I've noticed something similar. Most of the people I 'hang' with are as old or older than myself, with a few exceptions.

Personally, I think it has to do with the feel of community that lessens as SL gets more populated. The older you are in SL, the smaller your "hometown" was. (To pull an example completely out of my ass.. Betas know all the other betas.. Oldbies know most of the other oldbies.. the next gen know a decent percentage of their own gen.. etc etc up until the newcomers, where there are so many of them, they only know a small chunk of others.)

The older someone is, the more they feel that sense of community, and those that feel it tend to stick together against the 'big city kids' that are swarming into their small town.

I kinda agree. I started just as 1.3 was rolled out. I do tend to hermit quite a bit too and I know a lot of people that joined when I did. I also know a lot of oldbies and hang out here and there with them in world. I think thats related to the forums though otherwise I wouldn't have met many of them me thinks.

Hmmm... you bring up some really good points, LF.

I just know that I like to seek out friendly, talented people to hang out with. And by "talented", that means so many things to me, not only builders and scripters but people with some really deeply observational insights or a gift for words and modes of communication.

And... hmmm... I've met many from across the spectrum of SL's existence.

I have very much respect for those avatars who came before me, and am eager to learn more about SL, while at the same time I enjoy hanging out at the Welcome Area and seeing who gets rezzed in. So for me, it is important to look up to my revered elders and honor them properly.

Some people should have been in SL far earlier, but for whatever reason why didn't know about it until NOW.

Yeh, that pretty much describes SL right now.

Makes you kinda wonder who the NEXT generation will be. I know I'm a 1.2-1.5er.

My first friends in SL were born around late 2003. I find they socialise more. And I unearth myself from my hermitting abyss because of them.

My other friends who joined SL at a later date than I did, are from the TSO but they actively provide Content, mainly by bringing new blood to the City and to Suburbia.

I don't know many people to who joined within a month of my join date. I spent my first months in SL cooped up in Tigertor's apartments, rezzing cylinders and calling them chairs/lights.

If there is a rift between players, I don't think it's as clear cut as dividing them between join dates or by the activites they partake in. Here in the forums, it may seem that there's a gap, but the forums aren't an accurate representation of the SL community. Of certain individuals in SL, yes, but not the community.

Sure ... We easily can think up of various ways to group ourselves, but that distinction is all in one's head.

My story is somewhat unique I guess. I feel like I am in all of those groups.

I was invited into SL in spring of 2003 by Philip through a There forum. In the months I spent here I only ever saw 2-3 people who were not inactive/away. At the time I was testing There, SL, SWG and two other games that didn't happen so my time here was hit and miss and usually very odd hours. I loved SL for the potential and the underdog factor but when against my typical nature and devoted most of my time to the corpotare backed world (There).

In There I was one of the many who shaped the world in beta. I worked with There inc in secret groups to develop the economy, governments and member owned continents and with members to develop content and community. Always keeping a close eye on Sl as theere seemed to be connections between content and developement of the worlds. It was great to see ideas for new things discussed in the There forums come to life in SL weeks or months later when There Inc seemd to push those ideas back to "sometime in the future that would be great".

When Beta for SL ended I signed up for the free deal they offered but because of a tech problem my avie account was lost. I signed up months later as another avie but real life kept me from playing. Last summer I tried to return with a new avie but another tech problem with the registration forced me to call for help. When I explained the problem to SL they saw I had an old beta account and offered to reinstate that one if i wished. So now my born date reflects my return ( i think this makes me the youngest Omega in world).

Since then I have become a builder catering to newbie needs (mostly low prim stuff) and keep to myself allot of the time. But because of my time spent in There and the exodus of Thereians to SL I have a large social group of people who would be considered the "Oldies" of There. Some had been here since SL beta some are still coming in for the first time every week.

I find that I feel comfortable with all of the above groups you mentioned and have been welcomed by all of them as well. Maybe it is my unique perspective that allows me to move so freely amoungst them all. I am truely lucky for all I have here and have to say thanks to everyone from support (for giving me old account back) to all the SL oldies ( for helping get back up to speed and making me feel welcome from my second start) to all my old world friends ( for helping to make SL feel like home).

Well, It's increasingly hard to find people that have been in SL longer than I, but yeah, I usually "hang" with people that joined within 6 months of me.

I guess it just goes to show that, if there's a will or a way, we'll find just about any excuse to self-segregate.

I suppose in my case it's a difficult one since I don't really tend to 'hang out' or socialise a lot. But yes, I agree, most of my friends are from the late 2003 era, though I have a few (some very special) friends from early-mid 2004.

I try to welcome everyone and don't judge people on when they discovered SL. There are a few, as Torley said, who should have been here before.

Also I think the Oldbie/Midbie/Newbie structure is changing. It's a tendancy to think of anyone older than yourself as an oldbie and anyone younger as a newbie. I've been guilty of that myself "A newbie is anyone less than a year old" or something.

But the reality is that those who were newbies a couple of months ago are midbies now. And what constitutes an oldbie? We have Shadow to thank for the term Ancients to refer to Alpha members, and beta/pre-1.1 tend to be grouped currently as the oldbies (or feted inner core).

If there is a social structure based on age, then it's nebulous and in constant flux. Remember, today's contend baron is tomorrow's fetid apple core... or something...

Sio.
Sarcasm Baron

A newbie is a state of mind.

I noticed that ages ago. A person can come and become an expert of a system in a week or two, where others can remain oblivious and stumble along for months and months.

Once you obtain the self security and the sense of freedom to explore and use the system, you are no longer a newbie - you are a user.

Regarding the "groups" - I have to say its true. And I think I may have an explanation of sorts:

The beta and v1.2 groups are oddballs.

Seriously. They are the kind of people who like to explore, create, and try new things. They are also intrested in the esoteric field (that is slowly catching populairty now days) of Virtual Worlds, as a platform to being creative and sharing your creations with others. I like to concider myself as one of these people.

The people who came post 1.4 are mostly from the more mainstream groups - people who are used to social or gaming enviroments and see SL as such. They came to chat and play, and not so much to create or have the same sort of fascination with Virtual Worlds as a platform, but more as a communication tool and a social service.

Oddballs still join SL - its just that the number of new mainstream users is now significatly larger then the other group. Its all a matter of quantity.

This is why Lordfly feels more comfortable with older users - there is just a higher chance that Lordfly will find people with common intrests among those who joined at that time and date, then with a random person picked from the crop of, say, last month for example.

Good, bad, I dunno. I'd like to think that as long as people let me create in peace i'm good, but sometimes it does feel as if something isnt quite right as it should. But thats a topic for an entirely different thread.

i don't buy into this at all.

first - there are three age groups of players:

1> alpha
2> beta
3> clueless noob

second - alphas were first. betas were second. clueless noobs should STFU.

third - your activity association to player groups is probably all wrong since you admittedly don't hang out with people who've started in teh last year.

i hang out a bunch of very creative noobs. i guess they might not qualify as completely clueless since they are over a season old now and more accomplished than myself, but occasionally they will ask stupid questions and let me feel useful.

my noobs - stever whiplash - automotive engineer. barnesworth anubis - architect extrordinaire. ingrid ingersoll - hand bag hag. toast bard - she will own SL by coming fall. my noobs are all into community. they like to make neighbourhoods and upkeep stuff. they cry when they change land. i laugh at them.

i would be careful of thee kinds of generalities. they will unnecessarily make new players feel marginalized by the feted inner core. prokoky will eat this thread for lunch.

Beware you're diluting the mystique of old players with all this talk.

You're all starting to sound like you have nothing offer except age.

But hey, do us all a favor and keep it up. The more you sound like a crank the easier it will be to dismiss you.

(Not referring to anyone specifically, just this so-called feted inner core group mentality)

I am a noob who should STF up. I don't fall into any of the groups mentioned - or a bit into all of them. I don't socialize much. I'm creating content for myself (a home) - and deleting it, because I can't bear to have my "work" seen until it passes my own strident inspection; so far it has not; until it does, I shall continue deleting.... I'm a bit past the inability to rezz a cube woohooo!!! 98% of my time is spent in my hermitage, in blissful solitude. (ok, sometimes not so blissful). My home is my canvas, the image on it changes constantly. I can't build something and then "leave it forever".

I have collected 7 calling cards since June 2004; every single one of them represents a very special and unique human being and I have come to know 2 of them at a much deeper level than I know most people in RL. Come to think of it, I don't think I have 7 calling cards in RL

My hermit tendencies are very pronounced and 2 of those "calling cards" actually had to force their friendship on me. Have I checked their birth dates? Not yet, but now I will. It should be interesting to see whether they are oldbies, midbies or newbies. I'll also check some of the people whose cards I have discarded for one reason or another. I might be able to find out something about myself by doing so

I'm having a ball in SL and I have much to learn. I should be wearing a sign that says: "Old woman loves challenge".

Thats the only thing that matters...you're having a ball and learning.

Yuh, I'll second that.

It's good to have balls. And learn.

Torley! I expected better of you. You're sinking to my level.

Since I joined in November, most of the people I've got to know are "oldbies". Does this say something about me, or them?

I'm sure I've lowered the tone, anyway ...

Aww.. Thanks Wu!
Yes, we came from TSO, we tried to squeeze what little creative freedom we could out of it by making houses for people but it's nothing compared to here. Second Life is so much more addicting because of what you can make. We socialize alot but I can keep myself amused, alone, for hours here making things. Usually at least one of us tinkering with something they have on the go while we chat. And yes, we like the idea of cummunities in the sims, of making land beautiful and meeting neighbours and new friends.

If you aren't open to meeting new people and making new friends, you just won't. There are people who have been in Sl for quite some time who seemed to have had no problem becoming friendly with new players. Namely Wu, Marcos, Schwanson and Lash. Then there's Pete Fats, who is a beta person who flies around in a garbage can. He's one of us for sure. The ppl I came with from TSO are extremely silly. When we come across other lunatics, we attempt to befriend them. If you are new or old and enjoy politically incorrect humour please seek us out. We're usually somewhere in world acting dumb.

I'm an extrovert. I'm sure I'll be meeting new people and collecting friends for as long as I'm here.

I have friends across a broad spectrum from oldies to the newbies that joined just last week. I don't think my friends tend to be from one group or another but rather are people that I enjoy being around.

-Ghoti

I don't like to be categorized into artificial divisions, and I don't understand why there's a need among some Second Life residents to do so. Many of the people I meet inworld have no desire to do this, and they usually accept me for who and how I am. Factors like when I came to SL seem to have no meaning at all to them, it's not even on their radar, and I appreciate that. That's how it should be for everyone.

Some people express surprise that I can build like I do after having been inworld for only a month, and it's like they want to believe I'm someone's alt. I do not have multiple accounts. I am the only av for the RL person who is me. And when I disagree with someone on the forums, it's not that I'm told to STFU, it's that I'm asked if junior high school is too much for me. It's just rhetoric designed to discredit what I'm saying by pointing out my recent "incept" date. It's actually more embarrassing to the poster who does it, but it happens a lot on these forums, to a lot of different people. Sometimes it's deserved, but mostly it's not.

It's sad that people have to come up with these sorts of explanations or strategies if someone doesn't meet some group's expectations. SL is like a small, isolated community recently invaded by people from "away." There are thousands of real life towns like that. I wish it was different online, because in real life it only interferes with constructive development and quality of life.

There are already too many categories and hierarchies, and since SL is a little over two years old, it's silly. But with the ratings and other inworld devices, and the behavior of certain groups and even LL sometimes, SL seems to encourage that kind of behavior.

edited for grammar

That's a great line.

Agreed. People who want to cliqueify SL are simply ruining it for everyone.

The laughable thing is that there are probably only a handful of 'oldbies' that know more about SL than I do, and yet there are quite a few 'newbies' who know a lot more about SL than I do.

I think it's mostly a self-esteem issue. They see all these new players doing very cool things and realise that the only thing they have left to offer is some date beside their name.

Nah mate - the whole Feted Inner Core thing is a complete pisstake. Did you not know?