What is it with home security?

And unless the property is REALLY big they can just move their camera to see whatever they want in it anyway. A tp home script has no other effect than damaging people that happen to fly by, while it doesn't bother at all people that actually have any trepassing intentions, because if they want to see inside they will.

Not my experience at all. But then I'm still talking about private islands here and there is no 'fly by' to where I use the script. If they're going that high to that area, they are doing it to see the very things I dont want them to, and whilst I understand most are talking about it being a PITA on the mainland, the fact is that private island owners need this ability too, since there is no other effective way of managing security beyond about 20m off the ground.

So yeah, we may be talking at cross purposes somewhat, but as I've said before, just remember when trying to get rulings on this or get functionality changed, that it's not just a case of people on the mainland wanting to annoy fly by traffic!

This seems like deeply anti-social behavior that has emerged from deeply flawed land security tools. Linden Labs is, of course, taking their normal, unabiguous, hardlining, take-control-of-the-situation stance on this issue by pretty much not saying much about it.

But I get my one vote and that vote is against. Linden Labs refused to implement direct teleportation exactly BECAUSE they want us to fly over peoples land on the way to our destination. I don't believe littering the landscape with what are essentially TP-Home landminds is what they had in mind. So any time I get smacked with one of these, I will file an abuse report and leave it in the hands of god (Philip).


P.S. Kris, I got wacked by your TP security when I came around looking for Francis. Your's however, protects your skybox which is a zillion miles in the air on your private island. If we actually had effective security where I could be stopped by an invisible wall that says "no Aimees allowed" then I would have just TPed home anyways. So I wasn't really put off by your security.

It DOES complicates the issue when the TP-Home scripts have valid AND abusive uses. It means the Lindens have to settle on a set of published usage guidelines...and we know how they feel about doing THAT sort of thing.

I have nothing against home security systems , they can be usefull.

But they shouldn't tp people to their home destination when they fly over.

Simply eject or push people to the borders should do to keep them out.

Im not sure everyone knows there are at least 2 major problems with some TP home scripts. The first problem includes scripts that spam the TP Home function on a poor user over and over before the first TP home request has even had time to complete. The end result is the users connection to the game being dropped and having to relog in. Its not the fact that TP Home was used, its that it was spammed enough to kill their session which IS a violation of the TOS (or whatever its called).

The other problem is more simple in that some dont give warnings.

Actually, since that usually means being unseated from the plane I'm flying. I'd still like a warning.

This is what I want! Not an exclusively no aimees allowed script, hehe... but the ability to stop people dead and say 'nuhuh. turn round or you're leaving'. In all situations.. jetpack, vehicles, whatever. As it is, I can't stop them, so they'd get to the no go zone in the time I allow for any warning. I know I'm not being friendly. I know it can prolly crash you. I know your vehicle is stranded in my sim til I return it. But I don't have another way to say 'this part of my sim is public and this part isnt'.

(As it happens, this may not be an issue for me for much longer, because Krittannia is coming off the grid, but that's not the point!)



And I thank you for recognising that it has a valid use and not being freaked out by my oppressive use of force at 700m up in lieu of something I can use that does what I need

I know I'm on a lot of ignore lists, but it does kinda feel like I keep having to restate the same thing just to get people to recognise that the situation is not black and white and the answer is not to cripple the function without something to replace it.

I only forgive you because I enjoyed your opressive use of force on me.

I love this I mean How simple can it get...((hugs)) Mina, Anyway, even as simply put as this is why can't this be an acceptable solution.

I mean seriously why can't it? Reason I ask is because a few of my friends and I are tired of flying around in older vehicles that we enjoy and getting teleported home while our "Vehicle is Stuck" in that parcel. Sorry but that function((teleport av home)) is over used or over implimented and we have the tools via linden land tools to do the same thing.

lately I use a note card with Links to this particular style of discussion about these land tools. Im adding this one to it and when I run across propertys like this I am going to pass the owner the card. Then if they dont go read or respond to me as per my note attached. I will then summarly follow my own Ideology which falls within the confines of the TOS.

For those that dont know...the Ban Tools on Land are set to 200 Meters above the parcel. Staying well above this is like staying in Free Air Space.

I think any Script that violates this boundary set by LL is an abuse if its used without notification or warning. When I run across something like this 15seconds is plenty of Time to pull back out of a parcel. Hell if your in a vehicle you can cross a ban area in less than 15 seconds.

Now to describe why these "Scripts" are an abuse.

For example: A Person has 2000 square meters of land. That is roughly 10x 200 meter parcel. Well Joe Dumass writes a script that covers a 200 meter radius and sets it in the middle of his parcel.

Whats wrong with this picture everyone knows that scripts work off of a spherical scan. whether its coned to a limit its still a spherical cone. Thus it doesnt cover the entire parcel. So they just set it at 200 meter Sphere in most cases.
What does this do?
Well they have just violated the rights of others by banning people from other peoples parcels as the sphere over Laps.

Sorry folks sometimes the wrong person gets blamed which happend as well recently. I had to have a linden find the ban script and it was on another parcel and not the one where my craft was locked in. This is an abuse of the system especially when innocents are getting blamed for Joe Dumas's stupidity.

LL has made tools for us to use to accomplish the same thing use em and it wont violate anyone else.

However, I do think LL can impliment one addition to the Land tools that would be benificial. Letting us set the height of the ban. Right now its set from 0 meters to 200 meters above the parcel. I think for some it would be benificial if we could have it to where we could set it in up to 200 meter incriments such as 500meters to 700 meters. Still easily doable and would be great to impliment. Why? Then you could set privacy sectors such as making the first floor on your home accessable and the second inaccessable.

But again just an Idea prolly get shot in the ass for it.

Shadow.

Are you sure? because I can hover mere meters over a banned parcel, and I don't think I'm special



This is bad simply from a scripting point of view. I'm pretty sure it's already been pointed out in this thread already, but it is entirely possible to check within the scanner and ALSO check that they are physically over your own land parcel before you tp or warn them. It's a default LSL function, no extra brain power required (its literally just adding if (llOverMyLand(llDetectedKey(0))) to your script)

Yes Kris I understand this but thats the problem they dont use those tools or think far enough ahead and they go back to what I mentioned ....but you see what I mean its a poorly written script that does it.

Im not regressing on my point at all just merely agreeing that had those been implimented the script would not have been abusive....its when people dont think and are wearing that sign that says....

Anyway Im gonna back out of this one for a while let it unfold on its own.

Shadow

i have no problem with them on a private sim.
But when they are on the mainland as you are flying or walking somewhere, that is abuse pure and simple.

I agree that misuse of the llTeleportAgentHome() function is a gross violation of the CS, not to mention being a bad citizen.

But because a function can be misused, should that justify removing it for everyone?

What about push-scripts.... script physics....griefing sound-effects....even shouts.... why not disable the functions to use those as well?

llTeleportAgentHome() has responsible uses. The problem is, there's a lot of folks misusing it. Then again, there's a lot of folks misusing scripts for C4, guns, and sound-effects as well.

As to responsible uses, read my post here: /13/e3/36609/1.html#post393756

Misuse of functions (i.e. grief) is the true problem, IMHO. Land tools to prevent certain script functions and sound effects from running would sure nullify the need for TP Home for *anti-grief* purposes.

Do I sound like a broken record yet?

Travis

I'm with Travis on this.

llTeleportAgentHome I always thought was intended as an easy way to go home quickly. When I first started scripting I thought it was a nifty way to conviently go home via command rather than through the interface, I didn't think to use it for any security untill later.

The current built in Land tools obviously don't work as well as everyone would like and security scripts are becoming more and more annoying (and as Robin has stated, more and more are against the TOS/CS). There seems to be no real solution right now.

Sending people home without warning is just an asshole thing to do. I've encountered security scripts that give warnings, I don't have a problem with that, don't want me there? Thats fine, but be a little more humane and respectable to others about it.

Most of the reason for this debate seem to stem from the fact that people want privacy, where SL was never really designed for it - except for maybe as an afterthought.

I dont want to keep people out of places. If there's something I want to hide, i'd rather be able to keep the place out of the people instead - not by ejecting, giving warnings, and teleporting home, and being overall rude - but by just not giving the option of having the place ever show up on their client in the first place.

The ability to make island sims show only to select group members is a good start. Now how about fixing that feature and expanding its abilities?

And how about adding support for this for parcels that are not on a mainland sim? I'd rather be unable to see a parcel and its contents then see everything inside and get bounced off, red-barred, or teleported home. These sort of "solutions" just leave you with a bitter taste in the mouth.

Brilliant! Love It. Lets do it

Oh, and please bring teleport directly to a location back! Please, for love of all thats holy, PLEASE! (I dont mind paying, just give me the fricken option!)

Wouldn't it, in all of the cases here, be simpler and more to the best interest of LL as well to buy back some land, or play eminent domain and move some parcels around and get more roads and other Linden owned land into the game? Would make vehicles more than for show in addition to preventing issues like these - if you can follow roads to get to your landmark, you don't have to worry about security systems at all.

Edit - Missed the very last posts... teleporting to a location would be good, but then we might as well get rid of fly and let people start building doors and roofs again.

[This is the same post I put in another thread on this topic.]






In most places, in the US, it’s required that you post a “Trespassers Will Be Shot” sign on your perimeter fence before you can start popping off civilians who stray onto your land.

Setting aside the ethics of popping people off, I think we should agree on a social courtesy that asks for similar notification in Second Life. A person running a deadly script (Death in SL is equal to home-teleportation) should have some sort of warning so that innocent people don’t end up dead through no fault of their own. It is simply immoral to leave a deadfall trap that innocent people are even more likely to encounter than the people being protected against.

Either post visible signs, put up the red bars, or shoot a red stream of particles into the sky or something. Give us some sort of warning that this is a hot LZ.

From now on, I will call anyone with a hidden trap a cruel and selfish jerk. If I see particle streamers, signs, or red bars, I will call them considerate neighbors. A bit insular, I suppose, but considerate neighbors nonetheless.

People who make and sell deadly security devices should include a free kit of copyable signs and/or streamers with each device they sell – with instructions and encouragement for their responsible use.

LMAO Kathy that reminds me of the time a neighbor shot an intruder on his land. He had the No tresspassing signs up that said Tresspassers will be shot.
Unfortunately the signs were turned inward so the neighbor could read them...LOL

Shadow.

In response to Kathy's repost, I'll repost something I posted on another thread on this topic:

Yes, in the "real world" we have an evolved society that generaly frowns on bodily tossing a person out of your house or setting booby traps. (Insert: Or shooting to kill in most circumstances) But in the real world, people also tend to respect things like closed doors and "Do not enter" signs, and when they dont there are laws in place to punish them for being self-centered twits.

The second half of the societal norms has to evolve though before the first will.

In other words, I'll take down my security scripts when they are no longer needed to get 10 galdarn minutes of privacy in my workshop 700 meters in the sky that has no doors to get into and is /clearly/ not a tourist attraction or any place else you belong if you /aren't me/.

LOL!!! PRICELESS!!!

Reitsuki,

I certainly understand your need for privacy. I’m just saying that I think scripts that “kill” should have warnings at the perimeter, or visible before you fly across the boundary. I have no problem with you teleporting every single person who enters your space – as long as there was some sort of warning, so the innocent passers-by could avoid your land.

I know that there are twits a-plenty. But those of us who try to mitigate our twitishness should be able to pass by without receiving the twits’ punishment. No?

So, the only thing I would ask of people with strong security is that they shoot a stream of red particles into the sky, or turn on the red bars, or put a couple large signs up. Or something.

And, by the way, I would consider hanging out at 700 meters a good enough effort to avoid innocent travelers. If your security is confined to a fairly close area around your build at 700, I think that should certainly allow innocent people a good chance to avoid it. No need for signs at that altitude, I would guess.

My biggest concern is between 50 and 200 meters. And not visitors, but people passing by. So, if there were a 10-15 second delay, that would suffice as well.

Still, I do like the picture of red streams of particles shooting off into the sky, like the red smoke used to denote a dangerous landing zone in combat If someone put a stream up, and gave a ten second lag to the security device, I don’t think I could find much to say about whatever happened next.

You know I just thought of something after Kathys post again ...dammit woman quit spuring me on here..LOL


But Imagine this on the low level security scripts they put up 10 meter by 10 meter prims that are invisable and when an avatar closed in the script did two things.

1 notified the incomming avatar that they will be teleported away

2 started particle projections of ack ack fire bursting to simulate danger...that would be kewl

Especially when cruising along in my F4U-1 Corsair..

Shadow

Just put up a casino sign and I'll never visit.

I think that would be so cool you could keep a side of meat in it for a month.

I'd like to see all sorts of invention here. Smoke, flame, animations, perhaps a huge particle dragon shrieking and spewing fire. Anything that warns people away from a deadfall trap that can kill innocent people.

There's no reason not to. The whole idea was to keep people away anyway. This just helps keep everyone a bit further away. Why would I mess with coming on your land - seeing what you didn't want me to see (even for a moment) - when I can see that ugly dragon roaring from half a sim away?

Besides, it's cool.

And it can be set to trigger when a new body shows up at a certain distance. So, it shouldn't drone on and irritate the neighbors too much. Perhaps we can settle on a particular color, so that form doesn't matter, only color. Hunter orange, perhaps? Am I wrong to assume that most artistic projects with particles won't be in hunter orange?

The red bars are good in a pinch, but they don't show up until it's practically too late to avoid smacking face-first into them. And you can't use them 700 meters in the air.

As for the message warning of the danger, that would be an EXCELLENT part of it. In fact, I think the message is necessary to let you know what all the red particles are about. And the particles are necessary so you know where the message came from.