~What is wrong with People?!?!~

I am absolutely sickened by the things that are happening during this horrible time after the Hurricane. I have been watching the news here at work and there are many reports of crime, looting and even a story about a nurse who was held at gunpoint when she went outside for some fresh air after having been working constantly helping people. Seeing people stealing what they can and running off all smiling like it's Christmas. I can not believe that especially in a time like this were there are hundreds, maybe thousands dead, and possibly a million or so homeless, that things like this happen. I know it happens but what I do not understand is why people put so much effort into being worthless and criminalistic instead of being a good person and helping. In a time when EVERYONE should come together and help, there are still scum that will take advantage. I sincerely believe these types of people should be publically hung for everyone to see, for I am personally sick and tired of my tax dollars going to pay for criminals to have 3 hots and a cot.


I just don't understand. It is so horrible to see and hear about...it breaks my heart...

Not really a balm, but it helps a little to view this as the natural order of things. I personally think that all human motivation is rooted in selfishness (ultimately, selfishness to maintain consistency in one's own perception of reality). It is very difficult for some people to see that you can gain much more by helping others than by acting for an immediate gain.

Some people choose to live by the "A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush" theory, but fail to recognize that two or more people working together can erect a net over the whole bush and start a breeding aviary, and no longer need to worry about finding more birds.

Those kinds of people that seek only immediate gratification have their place when the social hierarchy is intact because they can be lured into doing all kinds of unsavory tasks that the rest of us wouldn't want to do. They follow carrots while we raise farms. It's understandably annoying to see the social structure fall apart and the animals run free, but they do have their place when things are stable.

Bittersweet is better than bitter, no?

I dislike it when people refer to other people as animals, because the comparison is generally unflattering to the animals.

Other people in the region are being stoic or even heroic. Selfish or not, we're an innately social species, and our first reponse is to help people in trouble. That's more significant than a few abberations.

Like it or not, we're all animals.

It's easy to write off your fellow animals as aberrations, but more difficult to figure out why they behave the way they do.

I was only separating another group out as "animals" in this instance because it suited the metaphor of farmer versus something less than farmer that also resides on the farm and can be lured into work by followng carrots. Should I have said jackasses?

When the jackasses are free from the harness, they will only cause trouble. Better?

We had this discussion at lunch. We were all of a like mind that while it's no comfort to the vendors and shop keepers, looting for food and even a small amount of clothing is quite acceptable in times like these but personally we felt the people looting the casinos and things like electronics and such that are not necessary for survival should be shot on site.

You need can goods and fresh drinking water - you certainly don't need a tv when there is no electricity.

I slightly disagree with this view... I think that we have 3 different things pulling each way in our mind. We have animalistic tendencies, to survive and reproduce. This is ethically neutral. We also have higher tendencies, to be loving and kind, which is good. And we have evil behaviors, that like to see people in misery and to put them there.

Most of these people are probably acting out of desperation... They haven't eaten for ages, they don't have anywhere to sleep, and they want to stay alive. They're probably not doing it to make someone else miserable; they're not looking that far ahead.

Of course it's still wrong for them to steal, loot, vandalize, or murder, but you can at least understand their reasons.

Everyone has some form of logic driving them, even if they don't know it. The subconscious is often smarter than the conscious...

I really can't blame those looting the Winn Dixie either. There is no food and when your kitchen is underwater it makes it hard to salvage much.... But I hope that these news videos are uses to prosecute those looting things other than basic staples.

But what motivates "good" and "evil" behaviors? --Besides divine predestination, of course.

I totally Agree!

Ok, maybe getting food and water is one thing...but stealing jewelry and radios and other electronics...is not about survival. It's about taking advantage of a horrible situation.

Hmm... How about this. What if they are only stealing MONEY? No doubt there is still money in the banks, safes, and under granny's mattress.

You can exchange money for food, water, shelter, and transportation-- all necessities in a crisis.

Well hmmm, stealing money isn't any better than stealing material goods not necessary to survival. So I still say shoot them on site. Most transportation is not available or is being offered for free at this point, the same for food water and shelter.

Chances are if they have to steal money they didn't have any to begin with. Right now there aren't that many vendors open to accept cash purchases...if they were smart they hightailed it out of there.

Perhaps you're only playing devils advocate, but the "looters" we were referring to were the opportunist vultures that hover around any disaster site.

---edit
Let me clarify, stealing anything isn't right, but it's understandable if it's items for survival and therefore a little easier to forgive. I can see stealing a gallon of water and a loaf of bread before I can see some one grabbing hands full of cash and then saying I was going to use it to buy a gallon of water and a loaf of bread.

Remember during the state of emergency of... whatever it was... when the only vendors with viable goods sold them at exorbitant rates? It's plausible to think that the same thing might be happening down there in areas surrounding New Orleans. Poor people might have to steal money to buy goods from the vultures because all the food and water is ruined by the storm, pollutants, or is otherwise inaccessible. Just saying

And yes, devil's advocate. Stealing is only wrong if I do it, so I'd just get someone else to do it for me.

Bleh.... I got tired of reading what sounds like an apologist discussion about why thieves and looters aren't really all that bad, so I'll say right off the bat that I didn't read most of this thread...

I have only this to say really: those people are just ASSHOLES plain and simple, and deserve no defense. They'd just as soon steal out of your pockets as they would the next guy's. Poor, rich, "well off", whatever--it does not mean the law doesn't apply to you, and it especially doesn't mean that what they damn well KNOW is "right" doesn't apply to them either.

I only buy into the story that a very small fraction of the population that would be classified as mentally ill genuinely do not know the difference between right and wrong, I think most people are quite capable of figuring the difference out themselves. I have little tolerance for thieves and their likes, show me a thief who has had a "hard life", and I'll show you someone who has had a HARDER life yet is still a better person than most around...

In this case, its better to steal the food. If people left the food alone, the lack of refrigeration and rising flood waters will spoil it anyway. Its better to salvage whats edible.

So, within one day, everyone's starving and stealing bread and milk from supermarkets to survive?

ya...

Its hard to raid the fridge when its 3 counties away stuck in a tree.

Yeah, that's it, shoot em on sight! None of this time-wasting legal process nonsense -- to hell with trials and juries and all that! What we need here is frontier justice! If there are a few mistakes, maybe accidentally shooting a shop owner who was salvaging his stock or a member of his family or a friend who would be welcome to the stuff, too darn bad!

I know there are some bleeding heart liberals out there who think we should just cut off the thief's hand . . . as if that would be a sufficiently effective deterrent! No way! If someone gets it into their fool head to steal a fistful of cash or a waterlogged slot machine, by God, nothing will do but instant capital punishment!!!

Having the police and National Guard shoot em, though . . . that really isn't the way to go about it. No, they have enough work to do, rescuing people from their roofs and all that. To free them up for that work and, more importantly, to provide opportunity for direct catharsis for the people in the disaster area, we should revive an American tradition that hasn't been in practice since the 1930's: good old fashioned public lynchings! Yeah! That'll make everyone feel better, plus it'll provide those nice CNN folks some great new footage for prime time during the all-important kickoff of the new Fall television season.

I once read that in Egypt they clear the dead bodies out of the Nile annually by releasing hundreds of flesh-eating turtles.

Are you thinking what I'm thinking?

WTF is wrong with you guys. Those people lost everything. Even the small percentage of assholes that's trying to "get better" of this situation arent really getting better at all, because they probably lost more then they gained.
I feel you should try to make a distinction between the active robbery of people thats going on, wich is absolutely horryfying and should be punished severely, the robbery of jewellery, small electronics and cash, wich IS making you better once you get it out of the city, and the more "allround" looting of food, water, diapers, shoes, wich are just necessities.
The last thing becomes a defendable act in times like these. Certainly not something that makes you deserve to be "shot on sight".

Although I do think robbery of jewellery and cash is an extremely lousy think to do, i just find it hard to justify the devotion of police officers time (of wich some are looting themselves btw) on defending property when all around them people are in desperate need of help or supplies, or even dying.
Human life should be priority right now.

When they're so brazen as to loot on live television, and when confronted with it, deny it...what legal process is necessary?

And it really doesn't matter anyway, my opinion is just that, an opinion. Why bother shooting them on sight when they're shooting each other anyway.

If you really want to make a difference, don't just spout rhetoric here, donate or volunteer. I just made my donation to the Red Cross it wasn't much but it was the best I could do.

MaryAnn if you read my post more carefully, I did state that looting for necessities while wrong is more forgivable and understandable than looting for fun and profit, the latter of which is what I stated "they should be shot on sight". Now in a civilized world that sounds pretty harsh but it really equates to the perpetrators should be SEVERELY prosecuted. Obviously martial law is necessary.

So yes food, water, diapers (if you can find some not soggy), clothing - steal them if you have none and we can forgive you. Steal 5 straps of thousand dollar bills, or grab a handful of diamond and watches....clean out a pawn shop and YOUR NOT the legal owner, deserves severe severe punishment.

Nisa, I do share your frustration when I hear about the people robbing eachother at gunpoint in a city that’s already full of death and despair, or the gangs stealing weapons and making the area so unsafe rescueers are pulled back out of the area because their safety cant be guaranteed. That’s a kind of anarchism and human (animal) behaviour that’s shocking and horrible to see.
I just don’t believe stealing property alone (with no direct threath towards a human being) is comparable to that kind of behaviour.
It always makes me angry and sad when i hear about a thief going to jail twice as long as someone who abused a child. I don’t understand that. I mean, I have never stolen a thing in my life, and hope I never will, but I cant find theft as serious a crime as directly use/abuse another human being.

Its the part of our system(s) i will never understand.

To clarify, I was speaking of looting in general myself (although I'm sure there's plenty of assholes in NO robbing people), and NOT about "looting" for survival at all. Although, I don't really care to hear that since someone "lost everything" it's now OK for them to steal a TV out of the local corner shop's store. Know why? Because the owner of that store has a right not to lose everything, too.

What kind of person robs a nurse at gunpoint?

This is America, buddy. If you want to live in a place where possessions aren't valued over human life, then go back to pinkland.