tele hubs or point to point whats your opinion

Your obvious lack of economic knowledge gives me a headache.

No money sinks = infinite money = everything costs one hojillion dollars = what's the point of money.

LF

Lordly, Lordfly...

WE MUST THINK OF THE POOR, LORDFLY! THERE CAN BE NO LOGIC IN THE FACE OF POOR!

I always put the jetpack on maximum boost and hold down the E key with all my might as the teleport finishes when I reach a telehub. It's worked well so far.

I'd be happy to fly across the continent in a fast ship each time I wanted to go somewhere, but there's this little problem where every sim isn't created equal. Before I get to the other side of the world, I'm usually eating sand at the bottom of a void sans vehicle because the last sim I was in didn't feel like handing me off. People would take this form of travel more seriously if it wasn't such a joke.

I'd pay for point to point teleporting. Of course, that has to be an option for all land owners to shut off, else the griefers would have an absolute field day double-clicking on all the green dots.

Yes, despite the fact that SL is a pure luxury and the fact that to run SL you have a computer that cost 1-3 times the yearly income of most families in developing counries, thus making you "RICH BIATCH" in a global economy. We must treat newbies as the new poor. Umm, no. SL is a luxury, quit the bullshit talk about the poor huddled masses, it make no sense. Logic is a terrible thing in the hands of those who use it.

What you're asking for, if you would take even one second to look past your own want, is to make everything in SL free. "Infinite bread and circuses." Look up the phrase.
Stick that in your 10 dollar lifetme pipe 'n' smoke it.

When I first joined SL, I didn't mind flying from a telehub to my destination. Saw alot of the world, met some great people along the way.
Now however, it seems no matter where I try to fly, 8 times outta 10 I get sent bouncing across the grid by some noids frakin security script. Now if LL makes an effort, and maybe makes a free fly zone, I am all for keeping the hubs. But as it is now, my vote goes for P2P

I, as an owner of a shop in a telehub sim, would choose for p2p.
Telehub sims also have some disadvantages over 'regular' sims.
Quite often I find the constant use of telehub (in my case in Daikoku) causing a lot of lag, caused by both avatar processing and constant asset retrieval.
It's impossible to measure, but I think i'm losing more customers due to lag, than that I'm gaining by being close to a telehub...

Oh, I agree with everything else already mentioned in favour of p2p (or more to the point, against telehubs).

() - Both.

They threw out point to point teleporting in favor of telehubs a long time ago.. its a decision I never understood... I don't see why it's an either or choice or why they are mutually exclusive.

I haven't read the thread. Sorry bout that. So I could just be repeating stuff thats been said.

I do not like being forced to download a shedload of crap I have no interest in seeing, and I do not appreciate having to fly four sims from a damned telehub to get to where I want to go. Imagine if the web made you navigate your OWN route to your destination URL? Gotta figure out all the hops yourself to finally see that website? Right. If a website doesnt friggin load in 10 seconds most people go elsewhere. And yet we're happy to spend 10 minutes fucking around in SL trying to get to somewhere?

I don't think it should cost either. It just makes sense to be able to go to where you want to, and it doesnt make any sense to inconvenience me deliberately the way it is now.

Having said that, I don't think I've ever actually seen a telehub unless that is specifically my destination, because I don't wait long enough to see anything there. But unless you fly up a long way (and sometimes even then it doesnt help) before you start moving off, you find yourself trapped in some fucking build that hasnt even appeared yet, then have to wait 3 minutes till you can see the stupid thing so you can find your way out.

In conclusion: Telehubs fucking suck. Forcing me to use them fucking sucks. ROAM fucking rulez. But shouldn't be necessary. Because we should be able to TP WHERE WE WANT!

</rant off>

I strongly endorse this viewpoint.

Im not so sure about this. Telehubs and the surrounding builds always feel like traps to me. As soon as I land, I go straight up ... really far up in the case of one particular telehub squating on the side of a volcano ... and then in the direction Im going. I dont spend any more time at a telehub than I have to.

And I wonder just how much that happens.

If telehub market places were different in any way, aside from the shapes, it might make more sense to use then as shopping destinations. But when I've taken the time to look, all I see are exact copies of all the same big-time content makers ... so it doesn't matter which one you go to .... you can find the same stuff at all of them. I've always been curious ... does renting a shop at every telehub market and putting the identical merchandise in every one actually work?

At any rate, hearing that Lindens might be reconsidering that approach is good news to me.

This was answered by Jeska...

07-22-2005, 04:58 PM #2
Jeska Linden
Administrator


Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 1,046 We have no current plans for introducing point to point teleporting, although there are several Resident-run systems in-world which may help you achieve this type of movement




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Awww. Don't feel badly about your thread! You did very well at presenting a poll (with no bias just a straight this answer or that answer) and you did a great job expressing your own opinion on the issue.

Just because others may not agree with your opinion, please do not think you did anything wrong by posting. Any issue like this that will have a major impact on SL (whether you think the impact will be good or bad) is worth discussing as much as people want to.

meh.. Magnum is pretty old (no offense Mag!! hehe). I just don't think he has a head for virtual world economics.

And it was more recently touched upon by Robin on 08-20-2005, 04:22 PM ....




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I don't think we need more money sinks. We need more shop owners telling their customers about GOM (www.gamingopenmarket.com). The new people assume their $L50- $L500 a week is all they get, so they aren't buying money. To balance the market we need more people buying money.

Put up a sign in your shop, get a GOM atm machine... that's my opinion

I'll relate my views to Asheron's Call and how it progressed on the subject.

In the beginning in AC portals across the realm (telehubs) were rare, as the game went on they became far more common. The need to travel overland and have any reason to "see the sights" completely died out in the interest of simplicity.

Part of me is however interested in point-to-point, but I see it as causing major upheaval in the game.

I'm endorsing the idea of P2P teleporting. As Robin Linden said, it hasn't had the 'community' effect they were hoping for. If people want to meet and hang out they will, and it's not likely at a telehub.
As for the commercial effect, I think it would be an empirical question. I for one, am another one of the 'get the hell away from the hub' type. If the few opinions expressed here serve as any indication of the general sentiment, it seems that most people just use them to get as close to their target location as they need to and nothing else. I have yet to see a post (did I miss it?) that says: "Oh, I love the stores around telehubs - I do lots of my shopping there", or one like "If I can't find what I'm looking for using the 'find' functions, I often look around the shops near a telehub". I'm certain that P2P teleporting will likely increase revenue for store owners, because of reduced lag and less of the 'annoyance' factor.

This really is a tough one - because I know I have an opinion on this subject that isn't exactly popular.

I'm *really* concerned about the implications of p2p porting, and how it will fundimentally change the way our world is laid out.

In the end, will this change be a bad thing? I really can't say for sure. Will we acclimate no matter what change is made? In time, absolutely.

The thing is, the magnitude of this change isn't on the order of introducing streaming video. This change, is *gigantic*. I just don't think its a good thing to introduce dramatic changes like this, overnight.

The only change I can think of that is equally as dramatic - was the switch from a 'rez tax' to a 'tier tax'. Note that when that change was made, our world was WAY smaller. Far-reaching changes like this could be recovered from quickly back then, because our economy was not nearly as complex as it is today. Imagine if they introduced that same change today. You think we would recover just as quickly? I don't think so.

I also don't have a whole lot of confidence so far that Linden is thougholy researching all of the implications of this change, and has a plan. My worry is, that if the community pressures hard enough - they'll just go and do it - without thinking of x, y, and z.

Guys - I know teleporting sucks. And really, if I'm wrong on this one - hallelujah. But I can't help but feeling like everyone is grossly underestimating how big of a deal this will be.

I think YOU are the one grossly underestimating how much of a big deal keeping telehubs around will be.

Telehubs are alright for a small world. Maybe even a small-medium world. But the world as it stands today is so huge, it's ridiculous to keep adding more and more telehubs to inconvenience people as they travel around the world. It is my firm belief that the telehub model we have today is unsustainable as SL gets bigger and bigger. Either thousands and thousands of telehubs will need creating or we just get point to point.

Telehubs are outdated and need replacing with the more obvious, simpler point to point. Let's get on with it.

Excellent post - I agree with all of it, though I do think the telehub system can remain as an option.

I agree with that point too... Once people have the ability to go point to point, I don't mind what else gets left in or added... Just so long as we can move from A to B without any unnessesary friction

I'm moving my post from the "save us from the lindens" thread since this one seems more related to the topic at hand.

So, please excuse the cross-thread-posting.

Here it is:
-----------

Contrary to popular assumption, money is not what everything in the universe revolves around:

Commercial zones have alot to do with telehubs.

Telehubs have nothing to do with commercial zones.

Part of the original reason Telehubs showed up was because people used to complain about per-pay Point to Point teleportation.

The reason people used to complain about Point to Point teleportation was the same as the reason people complain about telehubs today: Its a pain.

When you want to get from point A to B, you want to get from point A to B. You dont want to walk, you dont want to fly. You want to get there. Its part of the assumption that because you are handling an artificial, digital world, you'd be capable of moving from point to point as easily and elegently as pointing a browser to a URL resource.

Commercial zones will adapt, just like they adapted to the formation of telehubs. They will adapt to the return of P2P reality. Human greed will make sure commerce will always adapt to the best way of extracting money from any given circumstance. If anything, the economy is not what i'm worried about here.

One true issue is that lag hotspots like clubs and malls will feel less obligated to stay away from sims that have been spared so far by being far away from telehubs. But.. then again, i've allready seen countless malls and clubs that one day have just ploped right in the center of a quiet nature sim that was far away from the telehub - just because someone sold large sections of land in that area for relativly cheap. No sim is safe, even today.

This is also not the reason they succeed and stay. Some of these clubs and casinos seem to make dwell just fine, being far away from the telehub by 4 or more sims.

LindenLab's reason for prefering to limit P2P teleportation - first by making people pay and then by introducing telehubs - was purely social. Check the forum archives for the background.

Like There.Com at the time, LindenLab felt that direct point-to-point teleportation will fragment the world and its community. Both have tried to place artificial restrictions on teleporting to combat this problem. However, both have not concidered or could forsee what have happened eventualy:

- The community splitted anyway. This is how sociaty works. There is no one true constant sociaty - people gravitate toward hanging with people who share their intrests.

- Telehubs never became a center of sharing information or meeting new people. When was the last time you've seen anyone rez at a telehub and not fly away as soon as the world rendered sufficintly to fly without lag?

- We have a large and complex road system, but its barely used. The reason is not just that "vehicles do not work so well in SecondLife", but also because its downright stupid. Sure, riding a car from place to place can be "fun" and "realistic", but it would not be what you want to do whenever you want to reach any destination in SL. Its a waste of time that most of us do not really have.

And finally, there's always the best test for finding if an idea works right or wrong: The workaround test. Simply put - flight-speed and auto-nav scripts such as Roam are not here to "enhance the Telehub experience". They're here to help you either fight or circumvent the telehub "problem". People concider telehubs to be a pain, people work around them.

I think telehubs are pretty much nothing but a pain on the mainland and should be replaced by direct point-to-point teleportation, for free. Because so far, in all the virtual worlds i've been to, this seems to be the only option that actually makes sense.

It is a cold hard fact that all those portals destroyed the immersive role playing feel of living in Dereth. But this is not a game. It's a world.

Second Life is a service that hosts the ability for us to build our dream environments. With reverse irony LL are matching Turbine's foolishness by forcing us to download and fly through dozens of foreign environments to reach our own and those of our friends.

In this case, it actually makes sense to let us teleport directly to any lcoation so that, as Philip says, this world will be even better than the real one.

Would everyone who is supportive of p2p teleporting have any issue with Linden also deciding to break up the main continent, and turn each sim into an independant private island (managed by Linden, of course)?

Like I said, I'll happily be wrong on this one. But what you're suggesting will effectively remove the distinction between the mainland and private islands.

Leaving telehubs in place after p2p is introduced would not alleviate my concerns. You are taking central egress points and scattering them. As in RL, buisnesses tend to congregate around central egress points. Take those away, and buisnesses will be scattered like seeds to the wind.

Folks complain about their neighbors enough as it is. It wont happen overnight, but there's no doubt in my mind that the level of b*tching over neighbor builds will *increase* after this is introduced.

Let me ask an open question: What is wrong with telehubs today? I'm not asking if their original mission has been accomplished. I'm asking specifically what is wrong with teleporting to a central location, and depending on personal modes of transportation for the remaining 1000m.

If any part of your answer is technology based - meaning - something that could potentially be fixed by LL in the future, sorry - I'm still not convinced this isn't a short-sighted move, and that you're focusing on the proper target.