Pledge of Allegiance Unconstitutional in Kalifornia

I completely agree with this, unfortunately I also think that this issue is being used to direct our attention away from other issues in this country that people on either side of [this] issue would be united on and against.

While our attention is directed here, they appoint another extremely conservative chief justice. While our attention is directed on this subject, Michael Chertoff at Homeland Security gets a pat on the back instead of the boot along with the fall guy Brownie. Halliburton (and it's subsidiaries) continue to get contracts in Iraq and New Orleans. Gas prices continue to rise and oil company executives continue to pocket record profits globally and at the expense of the American people and the American tax payers. The war in Iraq continues. The country is BROKE and digging it's self deeper into debt.

But hey - the most important thing in American life today is whether or not god remains in the pledge allegiance not whether old people and children die of neglect, malnutrition or lack of medical care. Did you see the pictures of New Orleans? Do you think that any large city in America would be much different if a major disaster hit? WE LOOK LIKE A THRID WORLD COUNTRY.

I really have to ask people who claim Christianity, what is more important to you? The pledge of allegiance or suffering people. Which is more deserving or your time, money and attention?

For me, who does not claim Christianity as a belief, suffering people are more important to me even than the possibility that people of a certain belief may attempt to force their beliefs onto me. One is esoteric and the other is real. One can be dealt with over time and the other is critical need. America - Fix your damn Levee's, Roads, Bridges, Damns. Secure your water and food supplies, harbours and chemical plants. Educate, feed and give critical medical care to your own people.

Get the hell out of everybody else's business and clean up your own back yard.

I have never understood why some people feel that they will climb further up the ladder if the kick the person following on the rung behind them in the head - as opposed to reaching out and pulling them up. But that's what I see people doing a lot lately.

Then they they pray for them.

Yup that should help.

I couldn't have said it better.





Forum Siggy
_______________________________****_________________
I travel not to go anywhere, but to go. I travel for travel's sake. The great affair is to move.

Robert Louis Stevenson

I agree

Sorry, need to go off this topic for a second to respond to this comment..

Rose, please research a little before you make statements like that. FEMA was ready, willing and trying desperately to get the aid to those areas. FEMA was held back by Homeland Security. In an order from Homeland Security, not FEMA, it was deemed that FEMA had other more important things to do for Homeland Security and couldn't take the time to do what they are really intened to do for our country, namely aiding in the recovery of natural disasters. When that raised too many eyebrows in the administration, Homeland Security changed their reasoning to something about sending FEMA in could cause a threat to national security.

I have a family member who works for FEMA, who has been in complete emotional distress since the begining of all this. (Yes, she loves her work, and she loves helping people, even when they call her incompetent.) Once again, FEMA becomes the scapegoat for the folies of higher ranking and deeper rooted government agencies, and honestly it only takes a little research to see this plain as day. The point being, doing a little research before you make statements like that can prevent dragging good peoples names and reputations through the mud.

Calling FEMA incompetent for not getting aid there soon enough is like calling a worker incompetent for _not_ doing something that his/her manager told them _not_ to do. Blame the manager!!

------------------

Sorry about that everyone..

Oh man, do I ever.

Fox, I do mention Michael Chertoff and Brown here. I do blame Management. I use FEMA in the broadest sense of the term. I understand that a lot of qualified people still work for the organization. Doctors, nurses, fire and law enforcment personnel that are extremely qualified but were held back by bad management.

I also blame extreme cut backs and a lot of good qualified people leaving recently. As quoted in the LA Times:



So yes.. you are correct, no argument from me and I apologize if it appeared like I was slamming good professionals that were honestly trying to do their jobs.

Also sorry for hijaking the thread with this, it's just that I think that the whole "Family Values" thing has become a non issue when you look at what is happening to the country as a whole.

Politicians who focus on whether or not the words "under god" should be in the pledge, when people are losing their homes and their jobs and can no longer feed or protect their families, are really just generating pure political spin amongst a bunch of politicians (posturing) with enough time and money to spin and with no care whatsoever for the American people as a whole.

Maybe people will FINALLY think about that when it comes time to vote.

Oh and edited to say that I did a LOT of research. Some direct in that I was trying to track down a dear friend lost in the fray and some indirect.

Chip, you've made my point.

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal; that they are endowed by their Creator with inherent and inalienable rights"

So rights are given to "men" by a higher power greater than men. As opposed to rights being given to "men" by other men--i.e. government.

What will happen when man realizes that he is the highest power on Earth? (Psst, let's just keep this little secret between us.)

lol

Well I'm not heading up an effort for anything like that, because (and my point is) I think it's a total non-issue. I do call anyone who doesn't like hearing or seeing the G word a whiner. In the same way that the French taunter "unclogs his nose in your general direction"! Actually, I really use the term whiner because I liken it to someone who goes out in light rain for ten seconds and then proceeds to whine about getting wet: i.e. it's not that big a deal!

Bringing lawyers and judges into something that has such a trivial fix for it--making it optional--is a disproportionate response to a minor issue.

But by "tradition" I meant the reciting of the pledge as a tradition, not the under God part as a tradition. I think there's something to be said about maintaining some level of tradition as long as they aren't so backwards that they're effecting someone's rights. It's one thing that makes countries special and preserves varied culture.

I know someone's going to say this is effecting people's rights, but it really doesn't have to: the pledge and/or the under God part should be optional. I think that's a good enough solution to a problem that doesn't deserve half the debate and thought that goes into it. I'd rather this thread be about something that matters.

Hell, I'd rather this thread be about Chicken Pot Pies, even... so maybe my opinion doesn't count!

OH SHIT!!!!!

Not only am I not proving your point, you're missing mine. Read up on Deism, Garoad.You need to understand what their beliefs were in order to put it into the proper context. To a Deist, saying that we are endowed by our Creator with certain rights is akin to saying that we're endowed with them by the big bang, or that our aquatic ancestors emerged from the oceans with certain inalienable rights. There's a reason they refer to a Creator rather than god with a capital G. The Deist notion of god is not a higher power in the Christian context you're speaking of. It's not a power at all because when the Deist god finished creating the universe and everything in it, he left... gone... no longer there to listen or judge. That means everything since is all about us. They were humanists.