/me waves a white flag

I had a vision of older residents living their fairly established lifestyles by teleporting themselves directly to map locations to reduce asset usage, by not downloading countless sims worth of unused data, and to reduce the load on telehub sims so that new residents, who rely on the hub circuits, could actually enjoy events and shopping in those sims.

But I could never expound that idea, in any fashion, without being labeled a business smashing telehub destroying newbie hating bigot. Additionally we've been told that LL's development amounts to independent programmers trying to successfully hack their own "pet project" code into a current release preview trunk. I can't believe we've wasted so much time and verbiage talking to them in terms of planning and teamwork. I give up.

*BIG HUG Khamon*

Just thought you could use one.

I'd laugh at you, but at least you realized that before spending 13,500L in hopes of talking to a Linden about their codebase.

You're just saying that because you are a business smashing telehub destroying newbie hating bigot.

That doesn't mean you aren't correct.

As you are one of the very few people is SL who goes to incredible lengths to provide beautiful, refreshing, network-optimized content (your flora), I hope the white flag != leaving SL. This place would not be quite so cool if that were the case. That's all I have to say about that. As I am flying along, downloading countless sims worth of unused data, loading telehub sims, making it hard for newbs to enjoy less lag, at least the trip is nicely populated with trees. =/

just don't forget that a few people throwing accusations does not make ALL people. There are people on BOTH sides of the telehub fence. I used to be firmly in the camp of P2P teleporting, but I've seen some arguments that make sense for hubs that go beyond the rather lame "I paid for my land and it should keep it's value" nonsense. (Disclosure: I also happen to own telehub land, but accepted the risk that hubs might disappear when I bought).

I never like to see good people feel like the mob is after them when it's only a few vocal people.

I have a dream.

That one day, hubbers and non-hubbers can live together in peace and harmony.

It must of been everyone. Surely no one that was truely surious about such a project would give up because of something as silly as a few people yelling obscenities, then later post a message about how harsh it was.

There is never a change that doesn't have it's drawbacks, but on the whole I hope point-to-point telporting will become a virtual reality one day. It won't stop people from exploring. For me it will simply make it easier. I can't select some barren looking space on the map and begin my exploration there and not be forced to start out thousands of meters away in a lag infested telehub sim.

Every change brings upheaval, but this is one change I believe will benefit SL more than distract from the enjoyment and viability of SL.

angel

~chants~ P2P P2P P2P!!!!!!!

Personally, I always felt that it was the folks who were against the idea of P2P teleporting, and favoured the status quo that were the ones being demonized and marginalized by 'the other side'.

Its likely all a matter of perspective. Both 'camps' feel as though they're a victim of the other.

I still feel that the open conversation could have been a more productive one if a compromise that fit the needs of both camps was sought, instead of an "all or nothing" scenario.

It doesn't mean we can't find some sort of common ground in the future, however.

Thanks Pen and Kage. A little niceness goes a long way.


Yes...well...yes.


This is the problem. I'm not on either side of the telehub fence, don't want them eleminated, don't care if people prefer to use them, don't mind compromising p2p to picks or owned land or such. But all that doesn't matter. I'm still a business smashing...bigot. What gets to me is that I can't talk about p2p without people immediatly turning the discussion into a telehub war and classifying me as the prime hater of those infernal devices. Whatever.


This is funny because I live in Selma, Alabama


It will. Not is SL, but it will.

Funny I was feeling the same way.

What if somebody tried that in RL. Hey everybody, bring some stuff and meet me at the river. We're gonna build us a bridge!

Buster

two simple points
- I think you're right that we need a compromise.
- No, you're not a business-smashing bigot.

I'm all for a compromise--adding P2P to Picks is my suggestion. More people would use the Picks system and it would add another level of "networking" to the world, while leaving the majority of tps to the hubs.

OK, if I understand this right, then I have the entire solution:

1. Establish point-to-point.

2. Keep the telehubs.

3. Charge 10 Lindens to use the point-to-point.

End of whole problem.

coco

Thank you for the solution Coco. Will we be charged 10L for p2p because we're not using the nearest telehub or am I missing the reasoning behind point #3?

If it makes you feel better Khamon, you convinced me.

The obvious solution is to let people script point-to-point teleportation themselves, that way if you're a regular somewhere you can script your home teleportation device to take you there directly, but if you were visiting someplace new you'd still have to go through telehubs.

Or is that thinking about it too simply?

Yes, Khamon. People don't want the telehubs to go at least in large part because they make the land around them valuable.

And people are also always hollering for more money sinks.

This would make the telehubs still attractive for people like me who don't have money to waste. (Or others, who just don't like to waste money.)

But they would provide p2p for those who want it, and don't mind paying for it, or at least WILL pay for it, just like I pay for uploading textures. (I mind it, but I do it.)

What's wrong with that plan? I don't see why it has to be an either or thing.

(For that matter, I don't even know if p2p is even do-able, or if I'm engaging in an entirely hypothetical conversation.)

coco

Considering that point-to-point teleportation was the norm until telehubs came along a few versions after launch, it seems eminently do-able.

This is wholly reasonable. LL should also charge ROAMers this fee as they are traveling quickly and bypassing hubs. They also need to find a way to charge me when I jetpack through twenty sims in 3.5 seconds. Maybe we should pay a fee to port to estate sims as well. It hardly seems fair that they get their own hub when they pay the same tier we do.

This is the line that always pisses me off and makes Prok ask me why I'm being so angry. I'm doing my dead level best to talk about this sensibly and now I'm suddenly demanding "either or" by asking a question. Where the hell does this shit come from?

It's always existed. The Betaites did it, the Lindens still do it. Funny how they find it invaluable but won't afford us the same luxury. Yes Prok, I'm being pissy. I feel somehow justified.

When you teleport someone to you, that is p2p teleporting. The technology obviously exists.

Lindens use P2P teleporting to get around. We can teleport people to our location. Early beta-SL had P2P built in. You are absolutely, 100% correct: P2P technology exists.