ll and griefers

so it looks like ll is weakening the individual's abilities to deal with griefers... so what is ll going to do to manage griefers better?

Ok. I'll respect the wishes in the other thread and respond here. Thank you for starting this thread Stone!

I will admit I have no scripting knowledge really. But I know there are ways for those in SL to "protect" themselves using scripts.

I remember back in the day, us (I was one of us then) mentors wondering how in the hell we were going to deal with griefers at stage 4. The lindens are so few, and not able to always be there. Not their fault really, but still, those of us trying to host classes had a bitch of a time dealing with those who wanted to just come in and disrupt things. How were we supposed to get rid of these *obvious* trouble makers. We were really left to our own devices (which I'm not so sad about).

Scripts were created by residents that would help us curtail the "trouble makers". These scripts began to be used on individual land.

Next thing I start seeing time and again is people being suspended and banned because they were abuse reported by the very trouble makers that started the issue on the person's land who was shot at/pushed off/ and then retaliated and shot at/banned the griefer.

My personal opinion. If you want to shoot, blast, and/or otherwise remove someone from *your* land... I don't give a rats butt why you want to do so, that is your land and so be it. You should have *every* right to protect your own land. If you are an ass on your own land, and shoot off the innocent, well then let the public be the judge if we ever go near your land again.

I'm for protests, boycotts, word of mouth "don't go there", and anything else it takes to make the public not support a parcel of land that "boots people for no reason". I'm also for the fact that I believe a person can do anything they want to another if that other person is ON their land.

Look. Either this is our world to shape and create as has been said time and again by LL, or it isn't. NEVER EVER should they(LL) take away tools they have given us. Give us MORE tools to use, give us other options, and DO NOT punish us for protecting our own lands. No matter where those lands may be. Or step in and choose to protect to the fullest the world you created.

Personally, I'd rather you (LL) let us protect ourselves. It is not so much to NOT suspend or ban someone that shoots someone on their own land. I don't care who was the originator.

I suspect that they are going to take their money and give them accounts. Oh..you mean the ones already in-world...

warnings..then 3 day suspensions...then 7 days suspensions..then warning..then 3 days suspensions..then 7 day suspensions..then warnings...

Fear of griefing is many times higher than actual griefing.

Most griefing takes place in clubs.

Why should every 512 first land holder be able to stop me flying across the grid? Who would *want* to grief these people? Why do you all think you are so important?

perhaps, but ll is still making it harder for residents to deal with griefers.

I agree with Penpen 100%.

LL is notorious for for suspending people who defend themselves against griefers.


Briana Dawson

A good thread. While I think in general the preventive measures attitide is out of hand you cannot possibly think of every way to stop a griefer, and peoples home security has seriously become an obstacle to mandatory flight (p2p teleport solves this!). I do think LL needs to step up enforcement agaisnt griefers. There is a TOS, it should be enforced. while I thing that a warning system is a good thing (after all some times griefing is really a diasgreement), I also think people who grif in game, with onjects that are created solley to greif, need the boot, frequently and often.

Another idea to take into effect. Recently a repeat "griefer" was banned. Any account or IP that was associated with the offending account was banned. husband, wife, children, friends or what not that might also be playing the game and have accessed thier accounst from that location were also banned. Any IP even if setup in another state if it accessed that account thier IP was banned, etc.

LL is stopping "griefers". I think the question is people want more INSTANT control over "griefers".

I do not kow what happened afterwords but any friends that were accidently banned and were upstanding accounts were let back in. Not sure about the repeat account or any that were involved with that IP address.

No it doesn't! I fly all over the gid. I get a kick out of it - and it's "immersive" - and I know a goodly number of people who also choose to fly over teleporting.
Clear cut rules about use of the tools plus real enforcement of the TOS (both for security user and greifer) solves the problem.

No, LL stops SOME griefers. Many known griefers are still in game, and have been for a LONG time, not just a few weeks.

Even if LL does EVENTUALLY ban someone, it's after weeks or months of them causing problems. And now LL is taking away one of the few USEFULL tools we have to deal with this on a short-term basis.

Maybe this is a wake up call. I've only been here a short while but noticed a few things.
A) Everyone whines, even myself. When it comes to topics though about change in this game the result is the same. NOTHING.

B) Instead of taking a thread like these that have been going around about the security systems, etc and turning them into useless mush, why not take them and ignore the radicalists (no name games here). Then maybe a neutral and happy medium could be found. It take smore then one thread or post for any company to react...that should have been more then enough indication that amybe we should be helping. They take thier cues from us.

Proposition 244 asks for more comprehensive land tools.

A Link to Prop 244 is here: http://secondlife.com/vote/index.php?get_id=244

Whether we're supportive or against the existance llTeleportHome, I'm hoping we all can agree that none of us want to be griefed, and better tools from Linden could help to prevent it.

I am begging you all to take a look at this proposal, and vote.


Thanks!

Travis I agree I am not one for being griefed but if someone does it *shrugs* Life is life and I do what I can and move on. The proposition looks great. TO bad I am at -30 votes or I would.

Now there's a feature list I can get behind. <adds votes>

I agree with Jillian.

The solution to the problem that I can't fly around anymore as making it so I don't NEED to fly around anymore kinda defeats the whole idea of the game/platform/metaverse/okra.

Not to mention, as you may know by now, I'm very concerned about the impression new players get in a game. If they are exploring around, and keep getting pushed and sent home, etc., then, well, that's not too welcoming, is it.

coco

I guess for me it just bothers me more when I have to fly and get booted, cause ethen i am going somewhere.

I am more tolerant when I am just tooling around in my triplane, then getting kicked is just an inconvenience.

the problem with this is that if ll doesn't step in at some point, the griefing/retaliation escalates.

ll is removing one of the resident's tool for dealing with griefers. so the question becomes what ll is going to do since residents can do less. it does imply that ll will need to do more. what more will the do?

Oh, yeah, sure. Like our 92,000 of mainland. And the fact that we get team-griefed by random folks every week who have a beef with us having a certain kind of avatar.

It's not only the 512ers.

Amen. You're very unlikely to be existing in SL and a random griefer approaches you and nails you.

Really, griefing outside of clubs is probably pretty low.

It's happened more than once to me. Sometimes on my out-of-the-way home on Seacliff (Check my ban-list), sometimes just while I was doing something else, like testing a vehicle in the vehicle sims. It's happened /tons/ to the Aerodrome and Spitoonie Island, neither of which are clubs.

Its like in ice hockey - the guy who punches first doesn't normally get the penalty, its the guy who retaliates who gets caught and put in the penalty box.

-Flip

I agree that property owners require tools that should be able to deal with griefers. I too however like to fly everywhere and have been bumped to my home position by an overactive security system.

I think that an ignore person/group function tool be added to the property managment tools that would render any offending avatars invisible and negate any script action from affecting any properties that those avatars are banned from.

I think this is the best possible solution.

http://secondlife.com/vote/index.php?get_id=401

happens to me about once a week

Yes. A happy medium would be nice. But I've actually found myself enjoying the discussion itself. I want it both ways. I want the be allowed to keep people off my land WITHOUT being thrown two sims away and having to log out and log back in again. The more refined these discussions get, with less and less people crying 'The sky is falling! The sky is falling!' over 'losing' some scripting tool, the more interesting it gets.

But the bottom line is that there needs to be a compromise. Coldly shrugging (or chuckling) as I am forced to log off because I flew over somebody's super-secret hideaway is NOT the answer. Prevent me from flying into it without assaulting me. I've said it a thousand times before. I'd happily fly around your land. I'm not there to spy on you. I just want the right to fly around without being assaulted.

And thank goodness somebody called for a happy medium.

Moved.