Free speech in Stagecoach Island
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SuezanneC Baskerville
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10-03-2005 21:16
From: Blueman Steele I love these threads...
yea so what happens if someone does get anti Wellsfargo and enters SI with free account offers to Bank of America's "Old West Town" set up? That is a good point. What happens to regular SL customers who want to express negative views about Linden Research's corporate customers? Here's one that might produce some conflict: the Bush administration decides that buying or renting a sim and doing a Bush Ranch Island would be nice. What will happen to the way that the Linden staff looks on anti-Bush sentiment expressed inworld?
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Jonquille Noir
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10-03-2005 22:30
From: SuezanneC Baskerville The thrust of the question is "Some say that SL users have certain rights, such as a right to free speech. The Wells Fargo customers that use Stagecoach Island are using the SL platform in much the same way that regular SL users do. Do the Wells Fargo customers have the same rights as SL users? An SL user is either on land they own or on land owned by someone else. If an SL user is on Linden owned land, which is land owned by someone else, why would their rights differ from those of a customer of Company A while on Company A's land? Those people are wrong, and they need to start reading things like the ToS before they agree to them.
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Martin Magpie
Catherine Cotton
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10-03-2005 23:37
From: ReallyRick Metropolitan It is actually funny you mention this. Right off the heels of my discovery that you could not say "Second Life" in Active Worlds, we were granted access to Stagecoach Island for that one night. While with Torley I shouted out "Bank of America" and did not get booted. Hope this answers your question!  LOL love it! |
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Seth Kanahoe
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10-04-2005 00:44
From: Ulrika Zugzwang I thought I'd take this opportunity to tell you that you are an asset to these forums. It's not just your intelligence (which is substantial) but your ability to approach problems from unique perspectives. I often find myself looking up from the mud wishing I could be more like you.  ~Ulrika~ Hmmm. I'd ask you to have my baby, but I think you've done that absolutely perfectly already.  |
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Issarlk Chatnoir
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10-04-2005 09:28
From: SuezanneC Baskerville
The thrust of the question is "Some say that SL users have certain rights, such as a right to free speech. The Wells Fargo customers that use Stagecoach Island are using the SL platform in much the same way that regular SL users do. Do the Wells Fargo customers have the same rights as SL users?
If SL users have rights and Well Fargo customers that use Stagecoach Island are SL Users and SL Users's right can't be restricted on private Islands then Well Fargo customers that use Stagecoach Island have rights. What is true: SL users have right. Unknown: - Well Fargo customers that use Stagecoach Island are SL Users - Well Fargo customers that use Stagecoach Island have rights. - SL users's rights can be restricted on private islands Does Well Fargo restrict their customers right on their island ? If so, then we can say that - Well Fargo customers that use Stagecoach Island are *not* SL Users OR - SL users's right can be restricted on private islands. From: someone
An SL user is either on land they own or on land owned by someone else. If an SL user is on Linden owned land, which is land owned by someone else, why would their rights differ from those of a customer of Company A while on Company A's land?
The two variables here are rights and owner of land you're on. So I would say that the reason the right would differs is the land their are on. Which means that the owner of the land you are on sets the rules.
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Blueman Steele
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10-04-2005 22:31
From: SuezanneC Baskerville That is a good point.
What happens to regular SL customers who want to express negative views about Linden Research's corporate customers?
Here's one that might produce some conflict: the Bush administration decides that buying or renting a sim and doing a Bush Ranch Island would be nice. What will happen to the way that the Linden staff looks on anti-Bush sentiment expressed inworld? Oh what happens with the Clinton and Monica avi's mixed in with "selected" animations... and what happens if Bush ranch gets protested by a sit in? |
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SuezanneC Baskerville
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10-04-2005 23:35
From: Ghoti Nyak As a private sim owner, Wells Fargo has the right to allow or restrict any behavior they see fit in their sim.
-Ghoti So private sim owners have the right to allow people to do things which violate the CS and TOS?
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Martin Magpie
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10-05-2005 00:05
From: SuezanneC Baskerville So private sim owners have the right to allow people to do things which violate the CS and TOS? No way can I see LL giving up all power of CS and TOS to any island owner. Imagine what that would do to the grid. Mar |
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Kris Ritter
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10-05-2005 00:23
From: SuezanneC Baskerville So private sim owners have the right to allow people to do things which violate the CS and TOS? Do they "Have the right"?... no, not really. Can you do stuff on private islands which would be against the CS and TOS on the main grid? Yes. Definitely. I and my friends did all the time. Sometimes with Lindens present! If you want your own ToS and CS and your own 'rights', buy a corporate grid like Wells Fargo did. I don't understand this debate. I really don't. Why do you even care so much? The way I see it, if I buy my OWN GRID, it is NOT part of SL, no SL user would have any rights there AT ALL and I can pretty much make up the terms myself, I would have thought. I'm sure there are a few Linden ones as a basis, probably just the kinda stuff that would actually be detrimental to the service. But what I do with my grid is my affair and not one of you would have a single right there just because you play the 'real' SL. Like, buying Counterstrike doesnt grant you rights to my private counterstrike server, ya know? And you'd get a very rude reply if you tried to assert any |
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Newfie Pendragon
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10-05-2005 06:33
Let's refry these beans once more.
a) Freedom of speech applies to congress. Private companies can restrict speech however ways they wish on their property. And yes, I know there's exceptions to this rule, but in general it applies.
b) It's their grid and their sim. They can ban the phrase 'orange monkey dung' if they so pleased. It might not be great for business, but there's nothing illegal about being stupid.
- Newfie
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Seth Kanahoe
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10-05-2005 07:21
From: SuezanneC Baskerville So private sim owners have the right to allow people to do things which violate the CS and TOS? They do if they can negotiate a separate agreement with LL which involves (a) enough profit for LL to offset any risk, and (b) contractual and legal tools whereby the private owner assumes responsibility and minimalizes LL's risk even further. Capitalism trumps the CS and the ToS, if risk can be minimalized. |
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Margaret Mfume
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10-05-2005 07:42
Is it a coincidence that there are 7 permanent bans from Stagecoach Island listed on the police blotter? http://secondlife.com/support/blotter.php
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SuezanneC Baskerville
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10-05-2005 13:48
When I click on your link I get no permanent bans in the normal police blotter page. When I clicked XML on the police blotter page I got asked if I wanted to subscribe and I said yes, then a page appears with the text all run together. This run together text had several instances of action taken in Stagecoach Island, presumably including your 7 permabans. I wonder if I am seeing what I am supposed to see on the police blotter page? Is there a way to see this XML information in an easy to read format?
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SuezanneC Baskerville
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10-05-2005 13:56
From: Newfie Pendragon Let's refry these beans once more.
a) Freedom of speech applies to congress. Private companies can restrict speech however ways they wish on their property. And yes, I know there's exceptions to this rule, but in general it applies.
b) It's their grid and their sim. They can ban the phrase 'orange monkey dung' if they so pleased. It might not be great for business, but there's nothing illegal about being stupid.
- Newfie The use of the phrase "freedom of speech" in one government' s document in the phrase "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press" does not establish a monopoly on the use of the phrase by other people to mean what they want; it actually prohibits Congress from making laws abridging the freedom to use the phrase "freedom of speech" any way they choose. The international makeup of the userbase makes reference to the U.S. Bill of Rights seem somewhat parochial to me.
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Margaret Mfume
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10-05-2005 13:58
From: SuezanneC Baskerville When I click on your link I get no permanent bans in the normal police blotter page.
When I clicked XML on the police blotter page I got asked if I wanted to subscribe and I said yes, then a page appears with the text all run together.
This run together text had several instances of action taken in Stagecoach Island, presumably including your 7 permabans.
I wonder if I am seeing what I am supposed to see on the police blotter page?
Is there a way to see this XML information in an easy to read format? To maintain clarity, they were specifically "permanent bans from Stagecoach Island" and they were not "mine". They are indeed gone from the main blotter page I would assume they were bumped by new reports. I know no other way of viewing the XML info but they are still showing there.
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Cristiano Midnight
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10-05-2005 14:18
From: Margaret Mfume To maintain clarity, they were specifically "permanent bans from Stagecoach Island" and they were not "mine". They are indeed gone from the main blotter page I would assume they were bumped by new reports. I know no other way of viewing the XML info but they are still showing there. The XML is a standard RSS feed - it can be read with any RSS program. Several standalone RSS readers are available, as well as support in some web browsers (Safari on the Mac, Firefox, and also AOL Explorer and Maxthon on the IE side). You simply subscribe to the feed by putting in the address to it, and it will stay updated and display in a much easier to read format.
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Margaret Mfume
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10-05-2005 14:30
Thanks Cris. It was Suzanne who originally asked for the info but I can utilize it as well since the XML has more extensive listings than the main police blotter page. I try to keep an eye on things over in the Mauve sandbox which is usually relatively calm compared to other sandboxes. Griefers there seem to show up in waves.
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Emma Soyinka
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10-05-2005 14:42
From: SuezanneC Baskerville The international makeup of the userbase makes reference to the U.S. Bill of Rights seem somewhat parochial to me. Obviously you haven't been listening to enough Rammstein lately. |
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SuezanneC Baskerville
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10-05-2005 19:50
At least one of those bans was due to what some might call the suppressson of the right to free speech - they kicked someone out for an improper name. Thanks for the RSS info, Cris.
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Newfie Pendragon
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10-06-2005 05:30
From: SuezanneC Baskerville The international makeup of the userbase makes reference to the U.S. Bill of Rights seem somewhat parochial to me. The internantional makeup of the userbase is irrelevant in the case of SL. As LL is a US-based company, they are bound by the laws of the US. Thus when the phrase is used in its correct context for LL (a US-based company), my statement still stands. - Newfie |