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Why the sudden demand for political BS?

Beau Perkins
Second Life Resident.
Join date: 25 Dec 2003
Posts: 1,061
09-21-2005 07:12
I am just curious as to what caused the recent interest in political agendas with in Second Life. Special interest groups have formed, Bill Of Rights proposed, and people here in general seem to want to see Second Life become a political playground. It all seemed to happen shortly after the recent GOM controversy.

Some of you have valid concerns. I agree with many of the things people are fighting for. Though, I have made a decision not to support any special interest group.

Why?

Because the thought of Second Life having internal organized politics will do far more harm to this world than any of the issues you are fighting for. I just want to log on, create and mingle. Until the day comes I cannot do that, all your issues seem petty to me.


I also recently decided to stop referring to SL as an extension of real life. Up until recently I treated SL more like a part time RL job, and my enjoyment here had been minimal. Now, I say screw it. My attitude has changed; this is a game to me now. I now believe Second Life is more of a place for role-play, making dreams come true and expressing yourself in ways not possible in real life. I will always continue to operate my shops, but I refuse to let it consume my every Second Life minute.

My point?

Can't we stick to making SL about fun and not focused on politics, money or personal interest?
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Richie Waves
Predictable
Join date: 29 Jun 2005
Posts: 1,424
09-21-2005 07:22
From: Beau Perkins
Can't we stick to making SL about fun and not focused on politics, money or personal interest?


I doubt it.. just observe and laugh when its funny.. I guess that will keep it fun for a few of us :)
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no u!
Pendari Lorentz
Senior Member
Join date: 5 Sep 2003
Posts: 4,372
09-21-2005 07:24
From: Beau Perkins
Can't we stick to making SL about fun and not focused on politics, money or personal interest?


Well, something to remember is that for many people, politics, money, and personal interest *is* fun. :)

And while I'm opposed to any one government running SL grid wide, I do think experiments with online governments in private communities is something that can provide a lot of fun as well as help shape a future.

Here is a post I wrote almost a year ago:


Why I joined and support the Neualtenburg Projekt

From: Pendari Lorentz from 11-17-2004


I've been in SL for over a year now. And I was around during the large debates about bringing a government to SL. Those who remember my opinions during those debates will know that I am opposed to a current (and forseeable future) government being established for the entire world of SL. However during the debates I also strongly agreed with those who were stating that there will be a day down the road when a government very well may be needed. This could be many years from now, and it may not even be within the SL as we know it.

If you think about the future of SL, and the worlds that will develop based on its ideals, then it does give reason to pause and think that 5, 10, or 20 years from now, with the growth of technology and more people throughout the RL world turning to the online world for business, education, entertainment, etc., we really cannot begin to imagine how much our online lives are going to start resembling our real lives. When the day comes that the online world and the real life world are intertwined so heavily that we cannot tell the difference, then yes, I very much can see governments coming into play throughout the
different communities.

To me, these ifs and whens are something to think about. And if we think about them now, and we experiment with different types of online governments now, before it is "too late", then maybe in the future the governments we now live with in our RL will not be the ones to neccessarily take over our online worlds. Through experiments and trials and error, I feel that those currently in online worlds really do have a chance at shaping the future dynamics of online worlds. Some will do it through business practices, others through educational, others still through arts and entertainment, and yes some through politics.

The Neualtenburg Projekt to me is a great testing ground that I personally believe can shed some light on a possible future. I do not fear it will ever take over SL (nor would I want it to). While I would love for the Projekt to grow and expand, it will never be something that would be forced upon the unwilling. It may inspire other government project to pop up in SL, and that would be great also! Unlike the difficulty of moving to a different country in RL when you are opposed to your government, in SL and hopefully other online worlds that develop, you can choose where to move in the first place based on your beliefs, or keep it from moving into your community. Or move out fairly easily enough if you cannot overthrow a government that you do not agree with. If the day came that the Neualtenburg Projekt became unvoluntary, you better believe I'm going to be right there with everyone else making sure we tear it down fast. But that isn't going to happen. Because I know I'm not the only one involved on the inside of the projekt that would work to keep that from happening.

So my reasons for being a part of this projekt are for experimental purposes only. For my part in it, I will be focusing solely on issues pertaining to SL, and RL issues that would *directly* affect SL. I believe that the day will come in our online lives that government will very much be a part of it, and I for one would love a part in shaping how it may come to be.
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Colette Meiji
Registered User
Join date: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 15,556
09-21-2005 07:25
Simple answer -


Dhrama


:rolleyes:
Khamon Fate
fategardens.net
Join date: 21 Nov 2003
Posts: 4,177
09-21-2005 07:28
sudden?

recent?
Willow Zander
Having Blahgasms
Join date: 22 May 2004
Posts: 9,935
09-21-2005 07:34
Cos someone thought of the children at last!

:eek: :eek:

Seriously, I am politically retarded, I know NOTHING. Please don't make me learn :(
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Beau Perkins
Second Life Resident.
Join date: 25 Dec 2003
Posts: 1,061
09-21-2005 07:44
From: someone
And while I'm opposed to any one government running SL grid wide, I do think experiments with online governments in private communities is something that can provide a lot of fun as well as help shape a future


I agree with you.

Let me be more specific. The Neualtenburg Projekt , I understand. If a group of people want to form thier own continent and play governement, and thats how you have fun, all the power to you. I might even be interested one day in experiencing such a thing.

If you are talking about political agendas, lobbying the Lindens, and trying to make it more like real life, I despise that.

I have watched my L$ value drop nearly a dollar over the past several months. Still I refuse to lobby the Lindens for changes, I'' just have faith that it will work itself out and they will make the correct changes. If not....oh well I have a day job and this is just a game.
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Fey Brightwillow
Registered User
Join date: 17 Mar 2003
Posts: 152
09-21-2005 07:54
It's not sudden or new this demand for politics. I'm very much against an SL wide government. Always have been, always will be. The TOS is just fine, and is what we, as players, agree upon when we began our virtual lifes in SL.

If people in groups want to govern themselves in their roleplay or on their land/sim, go for it. Just don't try to push it onto the world as a whole. :) Cause you're not paying my SL payments *winks*

Beau, you're very correct. It's a "second" life.. a fantasy one.. one to enjoy how each and every one of us find pleasurable. Whether it is working on projects, dancing, meeting new people.. etc. :)

Well, that's my two cents, virtual of course :)
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Eboni Khan
Misanthrope
Join date: 17 Mar 2004
Posts: 2,133
09-21-2005 08:04
You have about 1% of the population that has decided they will become top dog in SL, because they think it matters. It doesn't. Luckily we have the MJW to keep this all in line.
Margaret Mfume
I.C.
Join date: 30 Dec 2004
Posts: 2,492
09-21-2005 08:05
From: Beau Perkins
My point?

Can't we stick to making SL about fun and not focused on politics, money or personal interest?

Did you also expect people to adjust their participation in SL to fall in line with your way of thinking during your initial foray into the SL experience? My point? Why does the universal "we" have to stick to making SL about fun and not do any of the things you listed in order for you to do so? As you continue to take in the profits from your shops, of course. Are "we" having fun yet?
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Emma Soyinka
Got moo? o_o
Join date: 13 Sep 2005
Posts: 218
09-21-2005 08:10
From: Beau Perkins
Can't we stick to making SL about fun and not focused on politics, money or personal interest?

If more people thought like this there'd probably be a lot more stuff to do in SL than there is currently.
DogSpot Boxer
vortex thruster
Join date: 23 Aug 2005
Posts: 671
09-21-2005 08:21
From: Margaret Mfume
Did you also expect people to adjust their participation in SL to fall in line with your way of thinking during your initial foray into the SL experience? My point? Why does the universal "we" have to stick to making SL about fun and not do any of the things you listed in order for you to do so? As you continue to take in the profits from your shops, of course. Are "we" having fun yet?


The underlying point is that while "politics" is fun for some, many/most of us don't want their political fun to affect US.

Like most politicians, the wannabe SL politicos are mainly looking out for their own self interests. Whether it be power or money or both.

As someone said above, if people want to play politics in SL, do it in their own private space and stop lobbying LL.
Dianne Mechanique
Back from the Dead
Join date: 28 Mar 2005
Posts: 2,648
09-21-2005 08:34
From: Khamon Fate
sudden?

recent?
I dunno, I agree with Beau.

Nburg is a seperate deal, (and the folks that are into it were roundly ridiculed for the most part when I started reading the forums). It *does* seem like everyone is into politics all of a sudden.

I mean if someone said a month or two ago that PandaStrong Fairplay would be working with with Juani Wu on the operation of a political citizens activist group it certainly would have seemed like an unlikely proposition.
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Margaret Mfume
I.C.
Join date: 30 Dec 2004
Posts: 2,492
09-21-2005 08:36
From: DogSpot Boxer
The underlying point is that while "politics" is fun for some, many/most of us don't want their political fun to affect US.

Like most politicians, the wannabe SL politicos are mainly looking out for their own self interests. Whether it be power or money or both.

As someone said above, if people want to play politics in SL, do it in their own private space and stop lobbying LL.

My out in the open point is that other people choices have not kept me from experiencing SL in much the way the OP has just now discovered. In fact, I've considered the efforts of those who put time and work into the building and execution of SL to be supportive of if not altogether necessary to that end.
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Taco Rubio
also quite creepy
Join date: 15 Feb 2004
Posts: 3,349
09-21-2005 09:21
Why don't we just ask Jake?
Margaret Mfume
I.C.
Join date: 30 Dec 2004
Posts: 2,492
09-21-2005 09:27
Because Jake has resigned himself to being the bitterest guy in SL. Jaded Jake?
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hush
Snowcrash Hoffman
Digital mind virus
Join date: 30 Jan 2005
Posts: 282
09-21-2005 09:43
From: Beau Perkins
Why?


1. Some people have nothing else to do, so this is their entertainment to create dramas.

2. For others, this is a simulation of RL politics so they want to experiment with these ideals that they think is important in RL. Just like you want to create an "Awesome You" avatar, they may want to create an " Awesome politics" to make their utopic ideals come true in a virtual world.

3. Others do it for the rush of the power. This is why most people go into politics. They feel like they are leading "their" people to freedom! You know some will die for that cause, it is that powerful satisfaction for certain individuals.

4. A small minority is really only interested in money and using this as a means to gather power to influence Lindens for their agendas.

Then of course for the rest of us this is rather amusing to watch and respond, so we further fuel the above groups fervor and it goes on and on.

Simple as that.
April Firefly
Idiosyncratic Poster
Join date: 3 Aug 2004
Posts: 1,253
09-21-2005 09:52
I think the voices in their heads told them to do it. You have to listen to them, don't you? Because if you don't... Well I don't want to think about it.
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From: Billybob Goodliffe
the truth is overrated :D

From: Argent Stonecutter
The most successful software company in the world does a piss-poor job on all these points. Particularly the first three. Why do you expect Linden Labs to do any better?
Yes, it's true, I have a blog now!
Margaret Mfume
I.C.
Join date: 30 Dec 2004
Posts: 2,492
09-21-2005 10:03
From: April Firefly
I think the voices in their heads told them to do it. You have to listen to them, don't you? Because if you don't... Well I don't want to think about it.

I have participated in these groups, April. Am I to assume from this post that you think that I hear voices inside my head and am thus mentally unstable?
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Travis Lambert
White dog, red collar
Join date: 3 Jun 2004
Posts: 2,819
09-21-2005 10:07
IMHO - I don't think this is anything new at all. Folks seem to have been politicing Linden for whatever their agenda is for as long as I've been around, at least.

I think what has changed, is the majority of this politcing has been confined to the forums in the past. Now we're seeing it move in-world, with more formal organization behind it.

I could see where if you're used to 'pleading your case' to Linden via the forums, these new developments could appear threatening. Conversely, if you have no involvement in the forums, in-world discourse might seem refreshing.

As long as Linden doesn't pay more attention to one group over another, I welcome folks with similar ideals grouping together to plead their case (even those I strongly disagree with).

After all, folks can speak all they want. That doesn't automatically mean Linden will take action.
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April Firefly
Idiosyncratic Poster
Join date: 3 Aug 2004
Posts: 1,253
09-21-2005 10:11
From: Margaret Mfume
I have participated in these groups, April. Am I to assume from this post that you think that I hear voices inside my head and am thus mentally unstable?



I said I think. I could be wrong. I hear voices in my head. Why does that mean I am mentally unstable. I never mentioned anyone was mentally unstable. Are you saying I am mentally unstable?
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From: Billybob Goodliffe
the truth is overrated :D

From: Argent Stonecutter
The most successful software company in the world does a piss-poor job on all these points. Particularly the first three. Why do you expect Linden Labs to do any better?
Yes, it's true, I have a blog now!
Cocoanut Koala
Coco's Cottages
Join date: 7 Feb 2005
Posts: 7,903
09-21-2005 10:11
From: Dianne Mechanique
I dunno, I agree with Beau.

Nburg is a seperate deal, (and the folks that are into it were roundly ridiculed for the most part when I started reading the forums). It *does* seem like everyone is into politics all of a sudden.

I mean if someone said a month or two ago that PandaStrong Fairplay would be working with with Juani Wu on the operation of a political citizens activist group it certainly would have seemed like an unlikely proposition.

Three things:

1. GOM

2. Fear of Anshe

3. Wishing to keep a policy of favoritism in force, and keeping inevitable demands for equal opportunity suppressed.

That's to explain the political movements (1) and the counter-movements against them (2 and 3). (1) has nothing to do with Panda or Jauani, however. They are just in it for the yuks and/or to destroy MJW, and, in Jauani's case, self-aggrandizement possibilities.

coco
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Margaret Mfume
I.C.
Join date: 30 Dec 2004
Posts: 2,492
09-21-2005 10:13
From: Travis Lambert
IMHO - I don't think this is anything new at all. Folks seem to have been politicing Linden for whatever their agenda is for as long as I've been around, at least.

I think what has changed, is the majority of this politcing has been confined to the forums in the past. Now we're seeing it move in-world, with more formal organization behind it.

I could see where if you're used to 'pleading your case' to Linden via the forums, these new developments could appear threatening. Conversely, if you have no involvement in the forums, in-world discourse might seem refreshing.

As long as Linden doesn't pay more attention to one group over another, I welcome folks with similar ideals grouping together to plead their case (even those I strongly disagree with).

After all, folks can speak all they want. That doesn't automatically mean Linden will take action.

I totally agree with you, Travis. I can envision that in-world discourse might seem even more refreshing to those who have had involvement in the forums.
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hush
Introvert Petunia
over 2 billion posts
Join date: 11 Sep 2004
Posts: 2,065
09-21-2005 10:27
Not that I'm contrarian or anything, but in RL when market failures obtain (e.g. roads, national defense, etc.) the government usually make some sort of entry.

In SL, when government failures (e.g. lack of direction, leadership, justice, consistency) obtain, a market of competing interests attempts to step in and correct them. Witness: Nexus Nash's let's help LL figure out how their economy works, land brokers' coalitions seeking audience with the King and obtaining concessions, the various wiki's to cover for lack of documentation, Mentors/Greeters/LiveHelpers producing notecards and FAQs, club owner quasi-secret shared blacklists etc. None of these are a priori bad, but these player initiatives are indicative of the government leaving holes in their provided services.
SuezanneC Baskerville
Forums Rock!
Join date: 22 Dec 2003
Posts: 14,229
Some days are better than others
09-21-2005 10:30
An individual's degree of alertness, sharpness, clarity of thought, vary from time to time, and so it is with the capabilities of the collective conscienciousness. When the group mind is firing on all eight cylinders, we get science, math, art, literature and such as it's output; when the collective brain is as sluggish as a gourmand after Thanksgiving dinner, we get politics.
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