Second Life not good enough for you?
|
|
a lost user
Join date: ?
Posts: ?
|
09-05-2005 20:47
Well, I - for one - have found the thread a good read. * EDIT - Except for the biting...where everything wandered off track Particularly the parts on copy+notrans vs nocopy+trans. There are aspects there that I hadn't considered, and - honestly - I don't see a terribly good solution to. Actually, it is something that I HAVE given a little thought to lately. mod+copy gives my customers the opportunity to tint adjust and replicate the tees that I sell them, to suit themselves and for overall convenience. I like that. I'd ALSO like to allow people to resell the tee if they decide they're tired with it, or generally over it (the lifespan for witty tee-shirts is finite). Thing is, there's no practical way for me to do that at the moment, without just setting them up at 0 cost, copy-mod-transfer and setting a donation jar next to them, effectively. To change that would require a technological solution (something like a 'repudiate' option), where you could destroy all but an original copy, lose personal copy-mod rights, and gain transfer/resale rights over that original with copy+mod+repudiate+notrans going to the next person. I can tell you right now, I wouldn't want to be the code-monkey who had to implement THAT option. That is a veritable sack of worms, and no mistake. But it would be NICE  Allow people the convenience and enjoyment of use of your product, and allow them to resell it in it's original form, forsaking all duplicates and modifications. If you - as a seller - wanted to permit that, of course. This isn't something that I see changing in a hurry. But I *do* understand the position. It would be nice to provide additional options to clothing and skins and whatnot. Variety is good. I'm also flexible if someone wants to negotiate permissions. But I wouldn't want to hand out a copy-mod-transfer item and see loads of people wearing a copy a month later. Heck, I give away far too much product for nothing anyway |
|
Almarea Lumiere
Registered User
Join date: 6 May 2004
Posts: 258
|
09-05-2005 21:22
From: Jonquille Noir Playing at committees, politics, leaders and followers.. that's all roleplay to me, when we can just send a well articulated and thought-out email to a Linden or a feature proposal and accomplish the same thing. Your approach is a fine one, and I imagine that you express yourself quite well and passionately when you are moved to do so. But I suspect that you don't mean to say that your approach is the one-size-fits-all solution for facilitating change. There are many advantages to working in groups: a consensus opinion is less likely to be poorly thought out, since it will have been challenged many times; the workload of addressing complex issues can be divided up; with more people involved, more creativity can be brought to bear on the issue. My objection to the use of the term "roleplay" is that it sounds a little bit condescending: like "you kids run along and enjoy your little game, now". There are many thoughtful and intelligent people involved in these meetings, and I don't think the term respects their common commitment to the future of Second Life. |
|
Goyan Luchador
Carbon Based Humanoid
Join date: 23 May 2004
Posts: 218
|
09-05-2005 21:26
If this game improves, or even levels out to a status quo, I'll continue to enjoy it. When things go downhill fast, past a point of no return, then I'll leave for something else. No big thing.
_____________________
"Perfect order is the forerunner of perfect horror." Carlos Fuentes
|
|
Cocoanut Koala
Coco's Cottages
Join date: 7 Feb 2005
Posts: 7,903
|
09-05-2005 21:41
From: DogSpot Boxer Why do I, as a buyer, need to make a "contribution" other than paying for products?
And to be clear, this isn't about *ME* in particular. It's about one particular thing that bugs me, namely the inability to sell products that I own due to no-transfer. I'm sure other residents (most of which probably don't participate here) have the same concern.
And I'd be quite suprised if I'm the first person to ever bring this up. I received some good advice ingame tonight for making my houses mod/transfer and no copy. I'm giving that some thought. coco |
|
Cocoanut Koala
Coco's Cottages
Join date: 7 Feb 2005
Posts: 7,903
|
09-05-2005 21:43
From: Almarea Lumiere I'm also totally confident that Philip knows the difference between somebody who speaks for all of SL and somebody who claims to. Fortunately, there is no such person or group who can speak for all of SL, and hopefully there never will be. coco |
|
Seth Kanahoe
political fugue artist
Join date: 30 Jan 2005
Posts: 1,220
|
09-05-2005 21:48
From: SuezanneC Baskerville Come on Seth, just give me one example of someone bitching in the forums, come on, I dare ya ... I can't. If I did, I'd just be bitching. |
|
Seth Kanahoe
political fugue artist
Join date: 30 Jan 2005
Posts: 1,220
|
09-05-2005 21:52
From: DogSpot Boxer People around here seem to have pretty thin skins. Welcome to the Second Life forums, DogSpot. Skins are for sale here, too. But they're only a pixel deep. |
|
Cocoanut Koala
Coco's Cottages
Join date: 7 Feb 2005
Posts: 7,903
|
09-05-2005 21:56
From: DogSpot Boxer Somebody wrote:
"Most find it intimidating, indeed dangerous to post here."
I've certainly learned how the wagons get circled here. Don't let the ones who give you a hard time get to you, DogSpot. They've been doing that to me since I got here. It's a sport for some, and they are indefatigueable. And when you complain about it, or stand up against it, they try to maintain that you just want to be a victim. Amazing how many people come onto these forums and immediately develop a brand-new persecution complex for no good reason. coco |
|
Snowcrash Hoffman
Digital mind virus
Join date: 30 Jan 2005
Posts: 282
|
09-05-2005 22:26
From: Cocoanut Koala Don't let the ones who give you a hard time get to you, DogSpot. They've been doing that to me since I got here. It's a sport for some, and they are indefatigueable. And when you complain about it, or stand up against it, they try to maintain that you just want to be a victim.
Amazing how many people come onto these forums and immediately develop a brand-new persecution complex for no good reason.
coco Coco, nobody is giving him hard time. You may want to read the posts again. He was ranting (his words not mine) about how everything cost money and asked a rhetorical question (see below). I simply responded to his question, which appeared condescending to him (may have been because it was in response to a rhetorical question). He rather than argue on what I said, invoked my name, which is the title of a book, to discredit my opinion. I thought that was bordering personal attack (I pointed this to him with definition of personal attack). However, Enabran corrected me as it was more ad hominum, and I agreed and regressed. He continued his insults (claiming I needed a thicker skin) and various other posts after that you can read. I did not respond to any of that and don't plan to. Here is the section from his original post that I responded: "If you want a nice skin, shape, clothes, etc, be prepared to play through the nose for it. And because so many things are no-transfer, I can't sell off used items to help me finance other purchases (see a slight rant on this topic below). So even as a premium (or is it primary) resident, I'm forced to either buy lindens, save for a long time or do without. Well, most people have to "do without" in RL. Why in the heck would anybody want to "do without" in SL?" So Coco, please analyze a bit before reaching conclusions or jump in at the opportunity to empathasize and accuse people of persecuting others who post on the forms. |
|
DogSpot Boxer
vortex thruster
Join date: 23 Aug 2005
Posts: 671
|
09-05-2005 22:27
I haven't finished reading it yet (got sidetracked with some links embedded in the thread), but it's been interesting so far. Thanks for posting it. |
|
Nolan Nash
Frischer Frosch
Join date: 15 May 2003
Posts: 7,141
|
09-05-2005 22:29
From: Seth Kanahoe I can't. If I did, I'd just be bitching. /end infinite loop. Excellent reply. I think I am going to join you in that mindset.
_____________________
“Time's fun when you're having flies.” ~Kermit
|
|
Catherine Cotton
Tis Elfin
Join date: 2 Apr 2003
Posts: 3,001
|
09-06-2005 01:31
From: Icon Serpentine This recent rash of committees and public discussion about the future of SL are starting to make me itchy.
At some point, SL was running just fine on it's own. The speculative self-absorbed pundits were free to discuss their grandious visions for the future of SL on their own in their own forum and elsewhere -- but this buzzing ideology that SL needs residents to decide its fate is starting to burst once again into the General forums.
Let me put it this way -- democracy is a joke. communism never worked. dictatorships undermine the needs of everyone, and when we finally had something going... people are digging into that primordial desire to group together and make big stupid decisions together.
Personally, I like to think things work fine in SL without resident "action groups" and "committees." Everyone built their stuff, scripted, textured, chilled out, partied, and had fun. The lindens continued doing their thing -- improving the product and customer experience, people got townhalls and even a freaking feature voting system.
And that's not good enough? Now a bunch of self-important "stakeholders" are pushing us into derision and politics?
We all have our ideas about what could make SL better. We have a forum for discussing those ideas. Go ahead and discuss them. It's a participatory culture here.
But what a participatory culture ISN'T is forcing other residents to obey regulations, clauses, and the like that they didn't previously agree to participate in... and no matter how open you make it, there will never be a system that will satisfy the participants of this culture.
The only rules, regulations, and what not that ARE acceptable in this participatory culture are contained in the documents we agreed to be bound to before beginning our participation in SL.
What I'm curious about is why there are people who think that isn't good enough.
I'm also curious as to why anyone would get the crazy idea that what they personally spend gives them any sort of privelage.
I guess to me -- all of this committee crap is hollow bickering that threatens to make my experience in SL a little bit more aggravating. I wouldn't take it too seriously, well not untill LL issues a statement saying that they are now NOT the one and only gov't in SL. Until that time I'm not worried or concerned with any wanna be gov't in SL. All Hail King Philip, thats how govt is run here. Cat |
|
AJ DaSilva
woz ere
Join date: 15 Jun 2005
Posts: 1,993
|
09-06-2005 03:45
From: DogSpot Boxer Somebody wrote:
"Most find it intimidating, indeed dangerous to post here."
I've certainly learned how the wagons get circled here. Really? With all honesty, this is the only forum I've ever been inclined to post to. Not because I know anyone either - all I do in world at the moment is explore and code - peeps here just seemed on the whole friendly and welcoming. Okay, you can go back to your discussion now.  |
|
Jesrad Seraph
Nonsense
Join date: 11 Dec 2004
Posts: 1,463
|
09-06-2005 05:32
From: DogSpot Boxer Sigh.
I *understand* the technical reasons for no-copy or no-transfer.
Let me be plainer.
As a new person to SL, you don't know what you want or need. Once you settle in and take stock, so to speak, you realize that you have things you bought that you aren't going to need.
But the SL resident is _stuck_ with those items, because they're all marked no-transfer.
Shouldn't there be a mechanism through which buyers can recoup some of their cost of items they no longer need?
Are there options to work with original creator to deal with this? As a sort of "content creator", I agree with you. There is a single case in which I sell something I am forced to make no-transfer, it's a complex vehicle. The no-transfer is because I absolutely HAVE, for purely technical reasons, to set it copiable or else the vehicle might just disappear, along with the hefty sum paid by the owner  Otherwise no-trans should be reserved for free items. I invite other creators to abide by this simple rule. They're free not to, though. From: Beau Perkins I am offended by this comment. There are plenty of us content creators who create stuff for YOUR pleasure and do not over charge for it. To say we all over charge is not a fair assumption. Maybe someone who bought your product needs the money more than the product at one moment. It does not mean they paid more than reasonable for it. From: Catherine Cotton I wouldn't take it too seriously, well not untill LL issues a statement saying that they are now NOT the one and only gov't in SL. Until that time I'm not worried or concerned with any wanna be gov't in SL. Egg's actly. Until Phil gives up a leaf or two from his laurels to any interest group or individual in SL, there's not much that will happen in this domain. But then, I think what Icon meant is that if resident-run government in SL means some resident(s) might get trampled upon, then any form of such government is a bad thing.
_____________________
Either Man can enjoy universal freedom, or Man cannot. If it is possible then everyone can act freely if they don't stop anyone else from doing same. If it is not possible, then conflict will arise anyway so punch those that try to stop you. In conclusion the only strategy that wins in all cases is that of doing what you want against all adversity, as long as you respect that right in others.
|
|
DogSpot Boxer
vortex thruster
Join date: 23 Aug 2005
Posts: 671
|
My patience is wearing thin
09-06-2005 09:02
From: Snowcrash Hoffman He rather than argue on what I said, invoked my name, which is the title of a book, to discredit my opinion. You are _really_ starting to p*ss me off. I most emphatically DID NOT invoke your name because it was the name of a book. I invoked your name because (gasp), it's your NAME. I only learned that it was a book after I looked at your profile in-game to find out if you were a content creator as well. In fact, I said that I didn't remember it was a book, in later post. And yet you continue to perpetuate the idea that because I used your name I was making a "personal attack". And the plain fact is that you WERE disrepectful and condesending in your original post. And right now I feel I'm bein attacked. HWMNBN, I do not suffer fools gladly. I'm *this* close to giving you the flaming you so richly deserve. The ball is in your court, HWMNBN, do with it as you will. Oh and you most definitely need to grow a thicker skin. This board isn't SL, where people are usually nice. This is RL, where message boards sometimes get testy. If you think that making this comment is an insult, well, it just proves my point. HWMNBN = "He Who Must Not Be Named" (because deity forbid that someone utter you know who's name, lest they be accused of a personal attacks). |
|
DogSpot Boxer
vortex thruster
Join date: 23 Aug 2005
Posts: 671
|
09-06-2005 09:19
From: Jesrad Seraph As a sort of "content creator", I agree with you. There is a single case in which I sell something I am forced to make no-transfer, it's a complex vehicle. The no-transfer is because I absolutely HAVE, for purely technical reasons, to set it copiable or else the vehicle might just disappear, along with the hefty sum paid by the owner Thank you for being open minded. |