Second Life Forums Archive - Derivatives are Copyright Infringement

pandastrong Fairplay

all bout the BANG POW NOW

Join date: 16 Aug 2004

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05-03-2005 09:54

From: Aimee Weber

and they have great grilled cheese with tomato).

I always knew you were a "Happy Waitress" type of girl!

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Forseti Svarog

ESC

Join date: 2 Nov 2004

Posts: 1,730

05-03-2005 10:08

From: Aimee Weber

Wait... I could be wrong but I am almost positive Seinfeld DOES show the sign. It's "Tom's Restaurant" (by the way, it looks TOTALLY different on the inside in RL than on the show, and they have great grilled cheese with tomato).

LOL maybe you are right aimee, and I am just recollecting an NYC urban myth

funny

mmm... grilled cheese and tomato! Hmm you remind me that I am overdue for a Corner Bistro burger.

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Chip Midnight

ate my baby!

Join date: 1 May 2003

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05-03-2005 17:23

From: blaze Spinnaker

Really, what's happening in photosourcing is copyright infringement.

It really is not a grey area

You're not getting it Blaze. The photograph isn't an issue. If you find a picture on the web that someone took in their garden and you cut out a flower and use it elsewhere, you have not violated their copyright since all compositional elements of the photograph are now gone, and the photographer does not have a copyright on the flower itself. There's a difference between something documented by a photograph and the copyrighted work that is the photograph itself. There would have to be something truly unique about the flower as protrayed in the photograph for this to be an issue... lighting, context, composition, etc.

Let me give you another example... if you take a photograph of a page from a novel where all the words are readable and then post it on the web where I find it and copy the words and use them, I have violated the copyright of the author, not the photographer. Since we've already established that there are no clear copyrights on items of clothing (only on textiles and patterns) your statement that it's not a grey area is your opinion. It isn't based on specific law. Please cite the applicable section of copyright law. There is a definitely a valid ethical question here, but its answer is no more clear than the copyright law it's based on.

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blaze Spinnaker

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05-03-2005 17:33

Chip, I don't know what to say man. If you really care about what the law thinks, then read copyright.gov closely and google a few other intellectual property websites.

If you'd rather make up your own laws on the issue, than there really isn't much I can say.

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Taken from The last paragraph on pg. 16 of Cory Ondrejka's paper "Changing Realities: User Creation, Communication, and Innovation in Digital Worlds :

"User-created content takes the idea of leveraging player opinions a step further by allowing them to effectively prototype new ideas and features. Developers can then measure which new concepts most improve the products and incorporate them into the game in future patches."

Chip Midnight

ate my baby!

Join date: 1 May 2003

Posts: 10,231

05-03-2005 17:35

From: blaze Spinnaker

Chip, I don't know what to say man. If you really care about what the law thinks, then read copyright.gov closely and google a few other intellectual property websites.

If you'd rather make up your own laws on the issue, than there really isn't much I can say.

I have. You, I'd wager, have not.

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blaze Spinnaker

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05-03-2005 17:36

Tell you what, how about you email the owners of those photographs you're photosourcing and let them know exactly what you're doing.

You should be ok, right? Nothing they can do.

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Taken from The last paragraph on pg. 16 of Cory Ondrejka's paper "Changing Realities: User Creation, Communication, and Innovation in Digital Worlds :

"User-created content takes the idea of leveraging player opinions a step further by allowing them to effectively prototype new ideas and features. Developers can then measure which new concepts most improve the products and incorporate them into the game in future patches."

Chip Midnight

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05-03-2005 17:41

Troll.

I guess you've just discovered your road to riches Blaze. Go take photos of lots of valuable things so you can then own the copyrights on them

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Ace Cassidy

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05-03-2005 17:43

Don't be silly. The definition of a derivative is :

df(x) = limit (delta-x -> 0) (( f(x + delta-x) - f(x) ) / delta-x)

- Ace

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Lo Jacobs

Awesome Possum

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05-03-2005 17:46

From: Ace Cassidy

Don't be silly. The definition of a derivative is :

df(x) = limit (delta-x -> 0) (( f(x + delta-x) - f(x) ) / delta-x)

- Ace

And the answer to the meaning of life, my friends, is 42.

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daz Groshomme

Artist *nuff said*

Join date: 28 Feb 2005

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05-03-2005 18:07

From: blaze Spinnaker

I'm afraid it is.

Actually, I think you can pay some pretty stiff fines if you take a video camera into a movie theatre in some states..

yes, if you use a photograph of a famous peice of art in SL, say a pic you took out of a museum catalog or art book of a Michaelangelo sculpture, you are breaking the law.

You are allowed to use the photographs of famous artwork that you take however, go for it, but please consider buying a art cd if you want to upload famous art to SL.

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Colette Meiji

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05-03-2005 21:41

From: Chip Midnight

Troll.

I guess you've just discovered your road to riches Blaze. Go take photos of lots of valuable things so you can then own the copyrights on them

I beleive blaze stated clearly in recent times this avatar exists mainly for the purpose of being a desenting voice.

The problem with always disenting is we may not get consistant reasoned responses.

blaze Spinnaker

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05-04-2005 04:09

Corbis has a whole business model built around the fact that photographs are fully protected by copyright.

Check it out:

http://pro.corbis.com/

_____________________

Taken from The last paragraph on pg. 16 of Cory Ondrejka's paper "Changing Realities: User Creation, Communication, and Innovation in Digital Worlds :

"User-created content takes the idea of leveraging player opinions a step further by allowing them to effectively prototype new ideas and features. Developers can then measure which new concepts most improve the products and incorporate them into the game in future patches."

blaze Spinnaker

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05-04-2005 04:33

BTW, for those who try to claim 'fair use', you do realise that gives everyone the right to copy your work and re-use it.

fair use can not be copyrighted, unless the bit that you copied is very insubstantial.

_____________________

Taken from The last paragraph on pg. 16 of Cory Ondrejka's paper "Changing Realities: User Creation, Communication, and Innovation in Digital Worlds :

"User-created content takes the idea of leveraging player opinions a step further by allowing them to effectively prototype new ideas and features. Developers can then measure which new concepts most improve the products and incorporate them into the game in future patches."

Malachi Petunia

Gentle Miscreant

Join date: 21 Sep 2003

Posts: 3,414

05-04-2005 04:46

No one in this overlong thread has claimed to be a lawyer, and if they were, they wouldn't be ethically allowed to post their opinions without a big disclaimer. Reposting an oversimplistic understanding of applicable law repeatedly, no matter how shrilly does not make someone right. Indeed, as the shrill poster has been repeatedly informed, there is indeed no "correct" until a judge has made a ruling, and I don't see any judges here either.

Derivatives are pecan pie, or, what Ace said.

blaze Spinnaker

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05-04-2005 05:03

Shrill?

Unless you're trying to model yourself after Prokofy, perhaps you should attempt some context before launching into the ad hominem.

If only lawyers could proclaim what is right and what is wrong here, then how are we supposed to create content without first talking to a lawyer?

Or is your logic, unless a lawyer comes along and says it's not OK to do this, then it must be OK?

So, can I show copyrighted movies in SL all day long until a lawyer comes a long and tells me not to do this?

This logic is unsound.

Copyright.gov was made to explain copyright law to non lawyers. The idea should be that we are reasonably intelligent people and can figure it out for ourselves without paying $500 / hour to a 8 year educated person.

_____________________

Taken from The last paragraph on pg. 16 of Cory Ondrejka's paper "Changing Realities: User Creation, Communication, and Innovation in Digital Worlds :

"User-created content takes the idea of leveraging player opinions a step further by allowing them to effectively prototype new ideas and features. Developers can then measure which new concepts most improve the products and incorporate them into the game in future patches."

blaze Spinnaker

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05-04-2005 05:13

From: someone

The safest course is always to get permission from the copyright owner before using copyrighted material. The Copyright Office cannot give this permission.

When it is impracticable to obtain permission, use of copyrighted material should be avoided unless the doctrine of “fair use” would clearly apply to the situation. The Copyright Office can neither determine if a certain use may be considered “fair” nor advise on possible copyright violations. If there is any doubt, it is advisable to consult an attorney.

http://www.copyright.gov/fls/fl102.html

_____________________

Taken from The last paragraph on pg. 16 of Cory Ondrejka's paper "Changing Realities: User Creation, Communication, and Innovation in Digital Worlds :

"User-created content takes the idea of leveraging player opinions a step further by allowing them to effectively prototype new ideas and features. Developers can then measure which new concepts most improve the products and incorporate them into the game in future patches."

Chip Midnight

ate my baby!

Join date: 1 May 2003

Posts: 10,231

05-04-2005 06:47

From: blaze Spinnaker

So, can I show copyrighted movies in SL all day long until a lawyer comes a long and tells me not to do this?

No, you can't... but if you used an actor from a movie in some other capacity you would not be violating the copyright of every movie he's been in. This isn't that difficult a concept to grasp Blaze. Honestly dude, are you trying to look dense? If so, well done!

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blaze Spinnaker

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05-04-2005 06:53

From: someone

No, you can't... but if you used an actor from a movie in some other capacity you would not be violating the copyright of every movie he's been in.

I am dense, don't you worry about that.

However, help me out here.. what are you trying to say?

I'm assuming for the moment you're refering the issue of using derivatives of photographs for making clothing as that's what you (presumably) would be interested in.

So, in this analogy, the actor is the piece of clothing?

Did you get the impression that I was trying to say that you were violating all the other images that clothing has been in?

_____________________

Taken from The last paragraph on pg. 16 of Cory Ondrejka's paper "Changing Realities: User Creation, Communication, and Innovation in Digital Worlds :

"User-created content takes the idea of leveraging player opinions a step further by allowing them to effectively prototype new ideas and features. Developers can then measure which new concepts most improve the products and incorporate them into the game in future patches."

blaze Spinnaker

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Join date: 12 Aug 2004

Posts: 5,898

05-04-2005 06:55

Also, what about this is not clear:

From: someone

The safest course is always to get permission from the copyright owner before using copyrighted material. The Copyright Office cannot give this permission.

When it is impracticable to obtain permission, use of copyrighted material should be avoided unless the doctrine of “fair use” would clearly apply to the situation. The Copyright Office can neither determine if a certain use may be considered “fair” nor advise on possible copyright violations. If there is any doubt, it is advisable to consult an attorney.

For a monent, lets say the law around photographs is not clear (I think it is very clear), don't you think you should probably check in with the owner of the material before using their work?

_____________________

Taken from The last paragraph on pg. 16 of Cory Ondrejka's paper "Changing Realities: User Creation, Communication, and Innovation in Digital Worlds :

"User-created content takes the idea of leveraging player opinions a step further by allowing them to effectively prototype new ideas and features. Developers can then measure which new concepts most improve the products and incorporate them into the game in future patches."

Chip Midnight

ate my baby!

Join date: 1 May 2003

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05-04-2005 06:57

Blaze, what part of clothing cannot be copyrighted do you not understand? (edited)

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blaze Spinnaker

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05-04-2005 07:01

We're talking past each other here.

The clothing can't be copyrighted (well, that's not entirely true) but the photograph most definitely can be.

Though, interestingly, wikipedia thinks pictures of 2d objects like photographs of art is not copyrightable, but pictures of 3d objects are.

From: someone

The Bridgeman Art Library had made photographic reproductions of famous works of art from museums around the world (works already in the public domain.) The Corel Corporation used those reproductions for an educational CD-ROM without paying Bridgeman. Bridgeman claimed copyright infringement. The Court ruled that reproductions of images in the public domain are not protected by copyright if the reproductions are slavish or lacking in originality. In their opinion, the Court noted: "There is little doubt that many photographs, probably the overwhelming majority, reflect at least the modest amount of originality required for copyright protection.... But 'slavish copying', although doubtless requiring technical skill and effort, does not qualify." [2] (http://englishhistory.net/tudor/art.html)

This ruling only applies to two-dimension works. For pictures of statues (which is, effectively, a translation of a three dimensional work into a two-dimensional copy) the picture taker has creative input into which angle to take the photographs from. Therefore, a new copyright is created when the picture is taken. Therefore, pictures of public domain 3D works are not necessarily in the public domain.

_____________________

Taken from The last paragraph on pg. 16 of Cory Ondrejka's paper "Changing Realities: User Creation, Communication, and Innovation in Digital Worlds :

"User-created content takes the idea of leveraging player opinions a step further by allowing them to effectively prototype new ideas and features. Developers can then measure which new concepts most improve the products and incorporate them into the game in future patches."

Chip Midnight

ate my baby!

Join date: 1 May 2003

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05-04-2005 07:02

I'll take that as a no.

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blaze Spinnaker

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05-04-2005 07:07

No what?

At what point did I say clothing can (or can't be) copyrighted? And, yes, it can be copyrighted if it were unique enough. But, that's not something I'm sure too many people in SL have to worry about.

I have been talking about photosourcing and using photographs from websites.

_____________________

Taken from The last paragraph on pg. 16 of Cory Ondrejka's paper "Changing Realities: User Creation, Communication, and Innovation in Digital Worlds :

"User-created content takes the idea of leveraging player opinions a step further by allowing them to effectively prototype new ideas and features. Developers can then measure which new concepts most improve the products and incorporate them into the game in future patches."

Shadow Weaver

Ancient

Join date: 13 Jan 2003

Posts: 2,808

05-04-2005 07:10

From: Chip Midnight

I'll take that as a no.

Chip there is no need to argue with them it seems this is a biannual debate as you remember this came up 6 months ago and is back again today.

The Law is the Law it hasn't changed in 6 months the data provided as supporting evidence is old.
In some cases conjecture based on personal interpretation.
So how can you debate with them when the info being used by them as counterpoint is not only inadequate but outdated.

Oh well,

Shadow

<edited to correct a thought> Simply implying them was not adequate for the point.

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blaze Spinnaker

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05-04-2005 07:12

Here, check this out:

http://pro.corbis.com/creative/terms/

From: someone

No Alterations:
Special ethical considerations apply to editorial, news, and fine art Images. When using such Images, you may not make or permit any modifications to or alterations of the Images (except for standard color correction or minor cropping for space limitations) or to the caption information unless specifically agreed in writing by Corbis.

Why do you think Corbis can say this? They have some magical copyright powers that have been bestowed upon them as a special case?

Why would you assume that "mycoolclothingpics.com" is not afforded the same rights?

_____________________

Taken from The last paragraph on pg. 16 of Cory Ondrejka's paper "Changing Realities: User Creation, Communication, and Innovation in Digital Worlds :

"User-created content takes the idea of leveraging player opinions a step further by allowing them to effectively prototype new ideas and features. Developers can then measure which new concepts most improve the products and incorporate them into the game in future patches."

Derivatives are Copyright Infringement
pandastrong Fairplay all bout the BANG POW NOW Join date: 16 Aug 2004 Posts: 2,920	05-03-2005 09:54 From: Aimee Weber and they have great grilled cheese with tomato). I always knew you were a "Happy Waitress" type of girl! _____________________ "Honestly, you are a gem -- fun, creative, and possessing strong social convictions. I think LL should be paying you to be in their game." ~ Ulrika Zugzwang on the iconography of pandastrong in the media "That's no good. Someone is going to take your place as SL's cutest boy while you're offline." ~ Ingrid Ingersoll on the topic of LL refusing to pay pandastrong for being in their game.
Forseti Svarog ESC Join date: 2 Nov 2004 Posts: 1,730	05-03-2005 10:08 From: Aimee Weber Wait... I could be wrong but I am almost positive Seinfeld DOES show the sign. It's "Tom's Restaurant" (by the way, it looks TOTALLY different on the inside in RL than on the show, and they have great grilled cheese with tomato). LOL maybe you are right aimee, and I am just recollecting an NYC urban myth funny mmm... grilled cheese and tomato! Hmm you remind me that I am overdue for a Corner Bistro burger. _____________________
Chip Midnight ate my baby! Join date: 1 May 2003 Posts: 10,231	05-03-2005 17:23 From: blaze Spinnaker Really, what's happening in photosourcing is copyright infringement. It really is not a grey area You're not getting it Blaze. The photograph isn't an issue. If you find a picture on the web that someone took in their garden and you cut out a flower and use it elsewhere, you have not violated their copyright since all compositional elements of the photograph are now gone, and the photographer does not have a copyright on the flower itself. There's a difference between something documented by a photograph and the copyrighted work that is the photograph itself. There would have to be something truly unique about the flower as protrayed in the photograph for this to be an issue... lighting, context, composition, etc. Let me give you another example... if you take a photograph of a page from a novel where all the words are readable and then post it on the web where I find it and copy the words and use them, I have violated the copyright of the author, not the photographer. Since we've already established that there are no clear copyrights on items of clothing (only on textiles and patterns) your statement that it's not a grey area is your opinion. It isn't based on specific law. Please cite the applicable section of copyright law. There is a definitely a valid ethical question here, but its answer is no more clear than the copyright law it's based on. _____________________ My other hobby: www.live365.com/stations/chip_midnight
blaze Spinnaker 1/2 Serious Join date: 12 Aug 2004 Posts: 5,898	05-03-2005 17:33 Chip, I don't know what to say man. If you really care about what the law thinks, then read copyright.gov closely and google a few other intellectual property websites. If you'd rather make up your own laws on the issue, than there really isn't much I can say. _____________________ Taken from The last paragraph on pg. 16 of Cory Ondrejka's paper "Changing Realities: User Creation, Communication, and Innovation in Digital Worlds : "User-created content takes the idea of leveraging player opinions a step further by allowing them to effectively prototype new ideas and features. Developers can then measure which new concepts most improve the products and incorporate them into the game in future patches."
Chip Midnight ate my baby! Join date: 1 May 2003 Posts: 10,231	05-03-2005 17:35 From: blaze Spinnaker Chip, I don't know what to say man. If you really care about what the law thinks, then read copyright.gov closely and google a few other intellectual property websites. If you'd rather make up your own laws on the issue, than there really isn't much I can say. I have. You, I'd wager, have not. _____________________ My other hobby: www.live365.com/stations/chip_midnight
blaze Spinnaker 1/2 Serious Join date: 12 Aug 2004 Posts: 5,898	05-03-2005 17:36 Tell you what, how about you email the owners of those photographs you're photosourcing and let them know exactly what you're doing. You should be ok, right? Nothing they can do. _____________________ Taken from The last paragraph on pg. 16 of Cory Ondrejka's paper "Changing Realities: User Creation, Communication, and Innovation in Digital Worlds : "User-created content takes the idea of leveraging player opinions a step further by allowing them to effectively prototype new ideas and features. Developers can then measure which new concepts most improve the products and incorporate them into the game in future patches."
Chip Midnight ate my baby! Join date: 1 May 2003 Posts: 10,231	05-03-2005 17:41 Troll. I guess you've just discovered your road to riches Blaze. Go take photos of lots of valuable things so you can then own the copyrights on them _____________________ My other hobby: www.live365.com/stations/chip_midnight
Ace Cassidy Resident Bohemian Join date: 5 Apr 2004 Posts: 1,228	05-03-2005 17:43 Don't be silly. The definition of a derivative is : df(x) = limit (delta-x -> 0) (( f(x + delta-x) - f(x) ) / delta-x) - Ace _____________________ "Free your mind, and your ass will follow" - George Clinton
Lo Jacobs Awesome Possum Join date: 28 May 2004 Posts: 2,734	05-03-2005 17:46 From: Ace Cassidy Don't be silly. The definition of a derivative is : df(x) = limit (delta-x -> 0) (( f(x + delta-x) - f(x) ) / delta-x) - Ace And the answer to the meaning of life, my friends, is 42. _____________________ http://churchofluxe.com/Luster
daz Groshomme Artist nuff said Join date: 28 Feb 2005 Posts: 711	05-03-2005 18:07 From: blaze Spinnaker I'm afraid it is. Actually, I think you can pay some pretty stiff fines if you take a video camera into a movie theatre in some states.. yes, if you use a photograph of a famous peice of art in SL, say a pic you took out of a museum catalog or art book of a Michaelangelo sculpture, you are breaking the law. You are allowed to use the photographs of famous artwork that you take however, go for it, but please consider buying a art cd if you want to upload famous art to SL. _____________________ daz is the SL pet of Sukkubus Phaeton daz is the RL friend of Sukkubus Phaeton Sukkubus Phaeton, RL, is the official super-model for the artist SLy and RLy known as daz! daz is missing the SL action because he needs a G5 badly
Colette Meiji Registered User Join date: 25 Mar 2005 Posts: 15,556	05-03-2005 21:41 From: Chip Midnight Troll. I guess you've just discovered your road to riches Blaze. Go take photos of lots of valuable things so you can then own the copyrights on them I beleive blaze stated clearly in recent times this avatar exists mainly for the purpose of being a desenting voice. The problem with always disenting is we may not get consistant reasoned responses.
blaze Spinnaker 1/2 Serious Join date: 12 Aug 2004 Posts: 5,898	05-04-2005 04:09 Corbis has a whole business model built around the fact that photographs are fully protected by copyright. Check it out: http://pro.corbis.com/ _____________________ Taken from The last paragraph on pg. 16 of Cory Ondrejka's paper "Changing Realities: User Creation, Communication, and Innovation in Digital Worlds : "User-created content takes the idea of leveraging player opinions a step further by allowing them to effectively prototype new ideas and features. Developers can then measure which new concepts most improve the products and incorporate them into the game in future patches."
blaze Spinnaker 1/2 Serious Join date: 12 Aug 2004 Posts: 5,898	05-04-2005 04:33 BTW, for those who try to claim 'fair use', you do realise that gives everyone the right to copy your work and re-use it. fair use can not be copyrighted, unless the bit that you copied is very insubstantial. _____________________ Taken from The last paragraph on pg. 16 of Cory Ondrejka's paper "Changing Realities: User Creation, Communication, and Innovation in Digital Worlds : "User-created content takes the idea of leveraging player opinions a step further by allowing them to effectively prototype new ideas and features. Developers can then measure which new concepts most improve the products and incorporate them into the game in future patches."
Malachi Petunia Gentle Miscreant Join date: 21 Sep 2003 Posts: 3,414	05-04-2005 04:46 No one in this overlong thread has claimed to be a lawyer, and if they were, they wouldn't be ethically allowed to post their opinions without a big disclaimer. Reposting an oversimplistic understanding of applicable law repeatedly, no matter how shrilly does not make someone right. Indeed, as the shrill poster has been repeatedly informed, there is indeed no "correct" until a judge has made a ruling, and I don't see any judges here either. Derivatives are pecan pie, or, what Ace said.
blaze Spinnaker 1/2 Serious Join date: 12 Aug 2004 Posts: 5,898	05-04-2005 05:03 Shrill? Unless you're trying to model yourself after Prokofy, perhaps you should attempt some context before launching into the ad hominem. If only lawyers could proclaim what is right and what is wrong here, then how are we supposed to create content without first talking to a lawyer? Or is your logic, unless a lawyer comes along and says it's not OK to do this, then it must be OK? So, can I show copyrighted movies in SL all day long until a lawyer comes a long and tells me not to do this? This logic is unsound. Copyright.gov was made to explain copyright law to non lawyers. The idea should be that we are reasonably intelligent people and can figure it out for ourselves without paying $500 / hour to a 8 year educated person. _____________________ Taken from The last paragraph on pg. 16 of Cory Ondrejka's paper "Changing Realities: User Creation, Communication, and Innovation in Digital Worlds : "User-created content takes the idea of leveraging player opinions a step further by allowing them to effectively prototype new ideas and features. Developers can then measure which new concepts most improve the products and incorporate them into the game in future patches."
blaze Spinnaker 1/2 Serious Join date: 12 Aug 2004 Posts: 5,898	05-04-2005 05:13 From: someone The safest course is always to get permission from the copyright owner before using copyrighted material. The Copyright Office cannot give this permission. When it is impracticable to obtain permission, use of copyrighted material should be avoided unless the doctrine of “fair use” would clearly apply to the situation. The Copyright Office can neither determine if a certain use may be considered “fair” nor advise on possible copyright violations. If there is any doubt, it is advisable to consult an attorney. http://www.copyright.gov/fls/fl102.html _____________________ Taken from The last paragraph on pg. 16 of Cory Ondrejka's paper "Changing Realities: User Creation, Communication, and Innovation in Digital Worlds : "User-created content takes the idea of leveraging player opinions a step further by allowing them to effectively prototype new ideas and features. Developers can then measure which new concepts most improve the products and incorporate them into the game in future patches."
Chip Midnight ate my baby! Join date: 1 May 2003 Posts: 10,231	05-04-2005 06:47 From: blaze Spinnaker So, can I show copyrighted movies in SL all day long until a lawyer comes a long and tells me not to do this? No, you can't... but if you used an actor from a movie in some other capacity you would not be violating the copyright of every movie he's been in. This isn't that difficult a concept to grasp Blaze. Honestly dude, are you trying to look dense? If so, well done! _____________________ My other hobby: www.live365.com/stations/chip_midnight
blaze Spinnaker 1/2 Serious Join date: 12 Aug 2004 Posts: 5,898	05-04-2005 06:53 From: someone No, you can't... but if you used an actor from a movie in some other capacity you would not be violating the copyright of every movie he's been in. I am dense, don't you worry about that. However, help me out here.. what are you trying to say? I'm assuming for the moment you're refering the issue of using derivatives of photographs for making clothing as that's what you (presumably) would be interested in. So, in this analogy, the actor is the piece of clothing? Did you get the impression that I was trying to say that you were violating all the other images that clothing has been in? _____________________ Taken from The last paragraph on pg. 16 of Cory Ondrejka's paper "Changing Realities: User Creation, Communication, and Innovation in Digital Worlds : "User-created content takes the idea of leveraging player opinions a step further by allowing them to effectively prototype new ideas and features. Developers can then measure which new concepts most improve the products and incorporate them into the game in future patches."
blaze Spinnaker 1/2 Serious Join date: 12 Aug 2004 Posts: 5,898	05-04-2005 06:55 Also, what about this is not clear: From: someone The safest course is always to get permission from the copyright owner before using copyrighted material. The Copyright Office cannot give this permission. When it is impracticable to obtain permission, use of copyrighted material should be avoided unless the doctrine of “fair use” would clearly apply to the situation. The Copyright Office can neither determine if a certain use may be considered “fair” nor advise on possible copyright violations. If there is any doubt, it is advisable to consult an attorney. For a monent, lets say the law around photographs is not clear (I think it is very clear), don't you think you should probably check in with the owner of the material before using their work? _____________________ Taken from The last paragraph on pg. 16 of Cory Ondrejka's paper "Changing Realities: User Creation, Communication, and Innovation in Digital Worlds : "User-created content takes the idea of leveraging player opinions a step further by allowing them to effectively prototype new ideas and features. Developers can then measure which new concepts most improve the products and incorporate them into the game in future patches."
Chip Midnight ate my baby! Join date: 1 May 2003 Posts: 10,231	05-04-2005 06:57 Blaze, what part of clothing cannot be copyrighted do you not understand? (edited) _____________________ My other hobby: www.live365.com/stations/chip_midnight
blaze Spinnaker 1/2 Serious Join date: 12 Aug 2004 Posts: 5,898	05-04-2005 07:01 We're talking past each other here. The clothing can't be copyrighted (well, that's not entirely true) but the photograph most definitely can be. Though, interestingly, wikipedia thinks pictures of 2d objects like photographs of art is not copyrightable, but pictures of 3d objects are. From: someone The Bridgeman Art Library had made photographic reproductions of famous works of art from museums around the world (works already in the public domain.) The Corel Corporation used those reproductions for an educational CD-ROM without paying Bridgeman. Bridgeman claimed copyright infringement. The Court ruled that reproductions of images in the public domain are not protected by copyright if the reproductions are slavish or lacking in originality. In their opinion, the Court noted: "There is little doubt that many photographs, probably the overwhelming majority, reflect at least the modest amount of originality required for copyright protection.... But 'slavish copying', although doubtless requiring technical skill and effort, does not qualify." [2] (http://englishhistory.net/tudor/art.html) This ruling only applies to two-dimension works. For pictures of statues (which is, effectively, a translation of a three dimensional work into a two-dimensional copy) the picture taker has creative input into which angle to take the photographs from. Therefore, a new copyright is created when the picture is taken. Therefore, pictures of public domain 3D works are not necessarily in the public domain. _____________________ Taken from The last paragraph on pg. 16 of Cory Ondrejka's paper "Changing Realities: User Creation, Communication, and Innovation in Digital Worlds : "User-created content takes the idea of leveraging player opinions a step further by allowing them to effectively prototype new ideas and features. Developers can then measure which new concepts most improve the products and incorporate them into the game in future patches."
Chip Midnight ate my baby! Join date: 1 May 2003 Posts: 10,231	05-04-2005 07:02 I'll take that as a no. _____________________ My other hobby: www.live365.com/stations/chip_midnight
blaze Spinnaker 1/2 Serious Join date: 12 Aug 2004 Posts: 5,898	05-04-2005 07:07 No what? At what point did I say clothing can (or can't be) copyrighted? And, yes, it can be copyrighted if it were unique enough. But, that's not something I'm sure too many people in SL have to worry about. I have been talking about photosourcing and using photographs from websites. _____________________ Taken from The last paragraph on pg. 16 of Cory Ondrejka's paper "Changing Realities: User Creation, Communication, and Innovation in Digital Worlds : "User-created content takes the idea of leveraging player opinions a step further by allowing them to effectively prototype new ideas and features. Developers can then measure which new concepts most improve the products and incorporate them into the game in future patches."
Shadow Weaver Ancient Join date: 13 Jan 2003 Posts: 2,808	05-04-2005 07:10 From: Chip Midnight I'll take that as a no. Chip there is no need to argue with them it seems this is a biannual debate as you remember this came up 6 months ago and is back again today. The Law is the Law it hasn't changed in 6 months the data provided as supporting evidence is old. In some cases conjecture based on personal interpretation. So how can you debate with them when the info being used by them as counterpoint is not only inadequate but outdated. Oh well, Shadow <edited to correct a thought> Simply implying them was not adequate for the point. _____________________ Everyone here is an adult. This ain't DisneyLand, and Mickey Mouse isn't going to swat you with a stick if you say "holy crapola."<Pathfinder Linden> New Worlds new Adventures Formerly known as Jade Wolf my business name has now changed to Dragon Shadow. Im me in world for Locations of my apparrel Online Authorized Trademark Licensed Apparel http://www.cafepress.com/slvisions OR Visit The Website @ www.slvisions.com
blaze Spinnaker 1/2 Serious Join date: 12 Aug 2004 Posts: 5,898	05-04-2005 07:12 Here, check this out: http://pro.corbis.com/creative/terms/ From: someone No Alterations: Special ethical considerations apply to editorial, news, and fine art Images. When using such Images, you may not make or permit any modifications to or alterations of the Images (except for standard color correction or minor cropping for space limitations) or to the caption information unless specifically agreed in writing by Corbis. Why do you think Corbis can say this? They have some magical copyright powers that have been bestowed upon them as a special case? Why would you assume that "mycoolclothingpics.com" is not afforded the same rights? _____________________ Taken from The last paragraph on pg. 16 of Cory Ondrejka's paper "Changing Realities: User Creation, Communication, and Innovation in Digital Worlds : "User-created content takes the idea of leveraging player opinions a step further by allowing them to effectively prototype new ideas and features. Developers can then measure which new concepts most improve the products and incorporate them into the game in future patches."

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