Second Life Forums Archive - Derivatives are Copyright Infringement

blaze Spinnaker

1/2 Serious

Join date: 12 Aug 2004

Posts: 5,898

05-02-2005 12:18

Just in case you were unclear on the concept:

From: someone

A “derivative work” is a work based upon one or more preexisting works, such as a translation, musical arrangement, dramatization, fictionalization, motion picture version, sound recording, art reproduction, abridgment, condensation, or any other form in which a work may be recast, transformed, or adapted. A work consisting of editorial revisions, annotations, elaborations, or other modifications, which, as a whole, represent an original work of authorship, is a “derivative work”.

http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap1.html#103

http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap1.html#103

_____________________

Taken from The last paragraph on pg. 16 of Cory Ondrejka's paper "Changing Realities: User Creation, Communication, and Innovation in Digital Worlds :

"User-created content takes the idea of leveraging player opinions a step further by allowing them to effectively prototype new ideas and features. Developers can then measure which new concepts most improve the products and incorporate them into the game in future patches."

Jeffrey Gomez

Cubed™

Join date: 11 Jun 2004

Posts: 3,522

05-02-2005 12:35

Interpretation, blaze. Interpretation. I don't advocate people that go around immitating others' work, but so we can be clear on the definition, here's a quick Google.

From: someone

Fine art and right of reproduction defined...

Fine art is defined as any work of visual art, including but not limited to, a drawing, (including an etching, lithograph, offset print silk screen, or a work of graphic art of like nature), crafts (including crafts in clay, textile, fiber, wood, metal, plastic, and like materials, or mixed media (including a collage, assemblage, or any combination of the foregoing art media). Right of reproduction is defined as including but not limited to, the following: reproduction of works of fine art as prints suitable for framing; facsimile casts of sculpture; reproductions used for greeting cards; reproductions in general books and magazine not devoted primarily to art, and in newspapers in other than art or news sections, when such reproductions in books, magazine and newspapers are used for purposes similar to those of material for which the publishers customarily pay; art films, television, except from stations operated for educational purposes, or on programs for educational purposes from all stations; and posters, billboards, films or television.

I believe the interpretation is "if it's the same texture or based off it directly, that's infringement. If it's a knockoff someone did by hand, that isn't."

Oh, and direct forgeries are a gray area of note. For example, if I hired someone to "paint a copy of the Mona Lisa," that's very much a derivative work.

_____________________

---

Kismet Karuna

Tosser

Join date: 5 Jun 2004

Posts: 195

05-02-2005 12:38

Like Andy Warhol's Tomato Soup Can, which is based upon the Campbell's Soup can.

Aimee Weber

The one on the right

Join date: 30 Jan 2004

Posts: 4,286

05-02-2005 12:38

Where the line is drawn still seems fuzzy to me. The thing that would really help clear it up for me would be a list of examples of original works with infringing works and non infringing works.

Maybe if they could place some work of art along side two other works:
-one just barely considered an infringement
-the other just barely NOT considered and infringement

All with an explaination how the determination was made for each. Does such a thing exist?

_____________________

blaze Spinnaker

1/2 Serious

Join date: 12 Aug 2004

Posts: 5,898

05-02-2005 12:40

Oh, absolutely Jeffrey.

If you redraw by hand, that's all good. Near impossible to improve copyright infringement as well unless you did a *really* good job.

However, if you took the picture and pasted it into PS (which people do) and then touched it up - that's infringement. No matter how much you touched it up.

_____________________

Taken from The last paragraph on pg. 16 of Cory Ondrejka's paper "Changing Realities: User Creation, Communication, and Innovation in Digital Worlds :

"User-created content takes the idea of leveraging player opinions a step further by allowing them to effectively prototype new ideas and features. Developers can then measure which new concepts most improve the products and incorporate them into the game in future patches."

Jeffrey Gomez

Cubed™

Join date: 11 Jun 2004

Posts: 3,522

05-02-2005 12:44

From: Aimee Weber

All with an explaination how the determination was made for each. Does such a thing exist?

Legally, the line is very blurred - such that interpretation would be difficult or impossible to have a definite answer on.

However, it would be nice to have LL elaborate on what they define in this case. Perhaps someone should ask them?

From: blaze Spinnaker

However, if you took the picture and pasted it into PS (which people do) and then touched it up - that's infringement. No matter how much you touched it up.

This is correct, in the most clearly defined of terms.

_____________________

---

blaze Spinnaker

1/2 Serious

Join date: 12 Aug 2004

Posts: 5,898

05-02-2005 12:49

Pretty sure LL doesn't do anything.

They just sit and handle DMCA take down notifications at they come in.

_____________________

Taken from The last paragraph on pg. 16 of Cory Ondrejka's paper "Changing Realities: User Creation, Communication, and Innovation in Digital Worlds :

"User-created content takes the idea of leveraging player opinions a step further by allowing them to effectively prototype new ideas and features. Developers can then measure which new concepts most improve the products and incorporate them into the game in future patches."

Colette Meiji

Registered User

Join date: 25 Mar 2005

Posts: 15,556

05-02-2005 12:57

Kind of hard for a picture in 3D of a virtual copy of a RL object in a computer game (I assume since there was a clothes thread just recently this is a related topic) is any sort of competition of the RL object. Its not illegal to photograph things. Or to photograph photos.

Now reproducing copyrighted photographs in SL? maybe thats a different stroy. since posting photos on websires .. though extremely common is claimed by the photo owners as copyright infringement.

Wouldnt want to know how far this could be pushed .. if it is breaking a copyright to use photographic reprenataion of clothes .. would someone who use permission to reproduce and noted the source, then be advertizing those clothes in SL?

And would such a think ultimately be bad for Second Life?

Kind of interesting.

blaze Spinnaker

1/2 Serious

Join date: 12 Aug 2004

Posts: 5,898

05-02-2005 13:18

From: someone

Its not illegal .. to photograph photos.

I'm afraid it is.

Actually, I think you can pay some pretty stiff fines if you take a video camera into a movie theatre in some states..

_____________________

Taken from The last paragraph on pg. 16 of Cory Ondrejka's paper "Changing Realities: User Creation, Communication, and Innovation in Digital Worlds :

"User-created content takes the idea of leveraging player opinions a step further by allowing them to effectively prototype new ideas and features. Developers can then measure which new concepts most improve the products and incorporate them into the game in future patches."

Colette Meiji

Registered User

Join date: 25 Mar 2005

Posts: 15,556

05-02-2005 13:23

From: blaze Spinnaker

I'm afraid it is.

Actually, I think you can do some pretty hard time if you take a video camera into a movie theatre in some states..

You deliberately left out the rest of my statement

I said its not illegal to photgraph THINGS .. please look above

I do mention about copyrighted photos and the like later in my post.

It is not infringing on Porshe's copyright of their Car to take a photo of it .. SINCE its a THING ....

it is illegal to reproduce a Photographer's copyrighted photo of a Car.

I hope this distinction is clear.

Colette Meiji

Registered User

Join date: 25 Mar 2005

Posts: 15,556

05-02-2005 13:27

From: blaze Spinnaker

I'm afraid it is.

Actually, I think you can pay some pretty stiff fines if you take a video camera into a movie theatre in some states..

hmm yes i may have mispoke .. it would be illegal to photograph a copyrighted photo and reuse. It shoudlnt be illegal to photograph a phot from an advertizement of a thing , though.. provided the phograph wasnt copyrighted.

Also it wouldnt be copyright infringement to photgraph a garment and reproduce that i do not believe?

blaze Spinnaker

1/2 Serious

Join date: 12 Aug 2004

Posts: 5,898

05-02-2005 13:28

All visual, literary, and auditory works are copyrighted unless specifically placed into public domain.

_____________________

Taken from The last paragraph on pg. 16 of Cory Ondrejka's paper "Changing Realities: User Creation, Communication, and Innovation in Digital Worlds :

"User-created content takes the idea of leveraging player opinions a step further by allowing them to effectively prototype new ideas and features. Developers can then measure which new concepts most improve the products and incorporate them into the game in future patches."

Colette Meiji

Registered User

Join date: 25 Mar 2005

Posts: 15,556

05-02-2005 13:33

removed my posts since im obviously misinformed

and my other points were obviously not of interest.

Reitsuki Kojima

Witchhunter

Join date: 27 Jan 2004

Posts: 5,328

05-02-2005 13:34

From: blaze Spinnaker

All visual, literary, and auditory works are copyrighted unless specifically placed into public domain.

These are all interesting facts, but to what end, Blaze? Most people know this already. I sense that you have a point, but I'm not seeing it.

_____________________

I am myself indifferent honest; but yet I could accuse me of such things that it were better my mother had not borne me: I am very proud, revengeful, ambitious, with more offenses at my beck than I have thoughts to put them in, imagination to give them shape, or time to act them in. What should such fellows as I do crawling between earth and heaven? We are arrant knaves, all; believe none of us.

blaze Spinnaker

1/2 Serious

Join date: 12 Aug 2004

Posts: 5,898

05-02-2005 13:40

It's not surprising you're not seeing it because some posts got deleted, so you're only seeing half of the conversation.

_____________________

Taken from The last paragraph on pg. 16 of Cory Ondrejka's paper "Changing Realities: User Creation, Communication, and Innovation in Digital Worlds :

"User-created content takes the idea of leveraging player opinions a step further by allowing them to effectively prototype new ideas and features. Developers can then measure which new concepts most improve the products and incorporate them into the game in future patches."

Malachi Petunia

Gentle Miscreant

Join date: 21 Sep 2003

Posts: 3,414

05-02-2005 13:47

I think the thread starter wants to be a intellectual property lawyer. Please note, most people have to go to law school to reach that status. In such schools they usually teach that nothing in law is unequivocal. As someone above has said - Interpretation - that is, there exists no statute or case law that doesn't require it. If the law could be unequivocal, we wouldn't need the judiciary.

Intellectual Property is one of the more slippery areas of the law as it was "invented" only recently. So you can cite definititions and make myriad proclamations on the subject and more likely than not be utterly wrong.

blaze Spinnaker

1/2 Serious

Join date: 12 Aug 2004

Posts: 5,898

05-02-2005 13:53

Well, you can make proclamations about anything in existence and more than likely be wrong.

Well, except math, of course. But even then you could probably be wrong.

Anyways, having sat through a very long court case on copyright infringement due to a multi-million dollar suit brought against a company I work for I have more than a passing familarity with the subject.

_____________________

Taken from The last paragraph on pg. 16 of Cory Ondrejka's paper "Changing Realities: User Creation, Communication, and Innovation in Digital Worlds :

"User-created content takes the idea of leveraging player opinions a step further by allowing them to effectively prototype new ideas and features. Developers can then measure which new concepts most improve the products and incorporate them into the game in future patches."

Meilian Shang

crass and pornographic

Join date: 22 Mar 2005

Posts: 242

05-02-2005 14:01

I work daily with copyright issues in my job. The law's interpretation is very muddled Even the intellectual property lawyers with whom I consult disagree with each other on many points especially regarding "derivative works." So the only valid statement w/r/t copyright law is "it's one big grey area."

If in doubt about it, don't do it. No one can sue you for NOT using their stuff after all

FlipperPA Peregrine

Magically Delicious!

Join date: 14 Nov 2003

Posts: 3,703

05-02-2005 14:14

The law contradicts itself. Quoting copyright law is like quoting religious scripture... most of the time, its always been translated several times and is subject to heavy interpretation and conjecture. Both are also often used by people for personal gain.

Fair use is definitely an interesting question too in SL; while SL is not necessarily an education tool, a recreational tool, or a commercial tool, it is some kind of combination. Copyrights have different power in all three of those realms.

Regards,

-Flip

_____________________

Peregrine Salon: www.PeregrineSalon.com - my consulting company
Second Blogger: www.SecondBlogger.com - free, fully integrated Second Life blogging for all avatars!

blaze Spinnaker

1/2 Serious

Join date: 12 Aug 2004

Posts: 5,898

05-02-2005 14:19

Well, I don't think there is a lot grey area around taking a photo from a website, pasting it into PS, touching it up with the liquify tool, uploading it into SL and then charging X L$ for it per copy.

_____________________

Taken from The last paragraph on pg. 16 of Cory Ondrejka's paper "Changing Realities: User Creation, Communication, and Innovation in Digital Worlds :

"User-created content takes the idea of leveraging player opinions a step further by allowing them to effectively prototype new ideas and features. Developers can then measure which new concepts most improve the products and incorporate them into the game in future patches."

pandastrong Fairplay

all bout the BANG POW NOW

Join date: 16 Aug 2004

Posts: 2,920

05-02-2005 14:25

From: blaze Spinnaker

Well, I don't think there is a lot grey area around taking a photo from a website, pasting it into PS, touching it up with the liquify tool, uploading it into SL and then charging X L$ for it per copy.

Grey area: A shirt is not the same thing as a "photograph" of a shirt.

If the "photograph" of the shirt was copyrighted, it might be a different situation.

_____________________

"Honestly, you are a gem -- fun, creative, and possessing strong social convictions. I think LL should be paying you to be in their game."

~ Ulrika Zugzwang on the iconography of pandastrong in the media

"That's no good. Someone is going to take your place as SL's cutest boy while you're offline."

~ Ingrid Ingersoll on the topic of LL refusing to pay pandastrong for being in their game.

blaze Spinnaker

1/2 Serious

Join date: 12 Aug 2004

Posts: 5,898

05-02-2005 14:33

All visual / literary / auditory productions are automatically copyrighted.

_____________________

Taken from The last paragraph on pg. 16 of Cory Ondrejka's paper "Changing Realities: User Creation, Communication, and Innovation in Digital Worlds :

"User-created content takes the idea of leveraging player opinions a step further by allowing them to effectively prototype new ideas and features. Developers can then measure which new concepts most improve the products and incorporate them into the game in future patches."

pandastrong Fairplay

all bout the BANG POW NOW

Join date: 16 Aug 2004

Posts: 2,920

05-02-2005 14:37

From: blaze Spinnaker

All visual / literary / auditory productions are automatically copyrighted.

You're right. It is all black and white. Too bad for hip-hop.

_____________________

"Honestly, you are a gem -- fun, creative, and possessing strong social convictions. I think LL should be paying you to be in their game."

~ Ulrika Zugzwang on the iconography of pandastrong in the media

"That's no good. Someone is going to take your place as SL's cutest boy while you're offline."

~ Ingrid Ingersoll on the topic of LL refusing to pay pandastrong for being in their game.

Surreal Farber

Cat Herder

Join date: 5 Feb 2004

Posts: 2,059

05-02-2005 14:39

The law is such a series of contradicting decisions, that copyright infrigments seems to only apply if the owner has the money, time, and will to pursue someone.

Don't forget naming infringements. If I open a burger joint named McDonalds, I should expect a sharply worded cease & desist letter unless I can prove I used the name prior to the golden arches.

_____________________

Surreal

Phobos 3d Design - putting the hot in psychotic since 2004

Come see our whole line of clothing, animations and accessories in Chaos (37, 198, 43)

blaze Spinnaker

1/2 Serious

Join date: 12 Aug 2004

Posts: 5,898

05-02-2005 14:41

From: someone

The law is such a series of contradicting decisions, that copyright infrigments seems to only apply if the owner has the money, time, and will to pursue someone

This is the ultimate reality of the situation.

And usually it's more of a case if the person you're persuing has money. A lot of lawyers will act on commision, but only if they can get some big bux out of it.

_____________________

Taken from The last paragraph on pg. 16 of Cory Ondrejka's paper "Changing Realities: User Creation, Communication, and Innovation in Digital Worlds :

"User-created content takes the idea of leveraging player opinions a step further by allowing them to effectively prototype new ideas and features. Developers can then measure which new concepts most improve the products and incorporate them into the game in future patches."

Derivatives are Copyright Infringement
blaze Spinnaker 1/2 Serious Join date: 12 Aug 2004 Posts: 5,898	05-02-2005 12:18 Just in case you were unclear on the concept: From: someone A “derivative work” is a work based upon one or more preexisting works, such as a translation, musical arrangement, dramatization, fictionalization, motion picture version, sound recording, art reproduction, abridgment, condensation, or any other form in which a work may be recast, transformed, or adapted. A work consisting of editorial revisions, annotations, elaborations, or other modifications, which, as a whole, represent an original work of authorship, is a “derivative work”. http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap1.html#103 http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap1.html#103 _____________________ Taken from The last paragraph on pg. 16 of Cory Ondrejka's paper "Changing Realities: User Creation, Communication, and Innovation in Digital Worlds : "User-created content takes the idea of leveraging player opinions a step further by allowing them to effectively prototype new ideas and features. Developers can then measure which new concepts most improve the products and incorporate them into the game in future patches."
Jeffrey Gomez Cubed™ Join date: 11 Jun 2004 Posts: 3,522	05-02-2005 12:35 Interpretation, blaze. Interpretation. I don't advocate people that go around immitating others' work, but so we can be clear on the definition, here's a quick Google. From: someone Fine art and right of reproduction defined... Fine art is defined as any work of visual art, including but not limited to, a drawing, (including an etching, lithograph, offset print silk screen, or a work of graphic art of like nature), crafts (including crafts in clay, textile, fiber, wood, metal, plastic, and like materials, or mixed media (including a collage, assemblage, or any combination of the foregoing art media). Right of reproduction is defined as including but not limited to, the following: reproduction of works of fine art as prints suitable for framing; facsimile casts of sculpture; reproductions used for greeting cards; reproductions in general books and magazine not devoted primarily to art, and in newspapers in other than art or news sections, when such reproductions in books, magazine and newspapers are used for purposes similar to those of material for which the publishers customarily pay; art films, television, except from stations operated for educational purposes, or on programs for educational purposes from all stations; and posters, billboards, films or television. I believe the interpretation is "if it's the same texture or based off it directly, that's infringement. If it's a knockoff someone did by hand, that isn't." Oh, and direct forgeries are a gray area of note. For example, if I hired someone to "paint a copy of the Mona Lisa," that's very much a derivative work. _____________________ ---
Kismet Karuna Tosser Join date: 5 Jun 2004 Posts: 195	05-02-2005 12:38 Like Andy Warhol's Tomato Soup Can, which is based upon the Campbell's Soup can.
Aimee Weber The one on the right Join date: 30 Jan 2004 Posts: 4,286	05-02-2005 12:38 Where the line is drawn still seems fuzzy to me. The thing that would really help clear it up for me would be a list of examples of original works with infringing works and non infringing works. Maybe if they could place some work of art along side two other works: -one just barely considered an infringement -the other just barely NOT considered and infringement All with an explaination how the determination was made for each. Does such a thing exist? _____________________
blaze Spinnaker 1/2 Serious Join date: 12 Aug 2004 Posts: 5,898	05-02-2005 12:40 Oh, absolutely Jeffrey. If you redraw by hand, that's all good. Near impossible to improve copyright infringement as well unless you did a really good job. However, if you took the picture and pasted it into PS (which people do) and then touched it up - that's infringement. No matter how much you touched it up. _____________________ Taken from The last paragraph on pg. 16 of Cory Ondrejka's paper "Changing Realities: User Creation, Communication, and Innovation in Digital Worlds : "User-created content takes the idea of leveraging player opinions a step further by allowing them to effectively prototype new ideas and features. Developers can then measure which new concepts most improve the products and incorporate them into the game in future patches."
Jeffrey Gomez Cubed™ Join date: 11 Jun 2004 Posts: 3,522	05-02-2005 12:44 From: Aimee Weber All with an explaination how the determination was made for each. Does such a thing exist? Legally, the line is very blurred - such that interpretation would be difficult or impossible to have a definite answer on. However, it would be nice to have LL elaborate on what they define in this case. Perhaps someone should ask them? From: blaze Spinnaker However, if you took the picture and pasted it into PS (which people do) and then touched it up - that's infringement. No matter how much you touched it up. This is correct, in the most clearly defined of terms. _____________________ ---
blaze Spinnaker 1/2 Serious Join date: 12 Aug 2004 Posts: 5,898	05-02-2005 12:49 Pretty sure LL doesn't do anything. They just sit and handle DMCA take down notifications at they come in. _____________________ Taken from The last paragraph on pg. 16 of Cory Ondrejka's paper "Changing Realities: User Creation, Communication, and Innovation in Digital Worlds : "User-created content takes the idea of leveraging player opinions a step further by allowing them to effectively prototype new ideas and features. Developers can then measure which new concepts most improve the products and incorporate them into the game in future patches."
Colette Meiji Registered User Join date: 25 Mar 2005 Posts: 15,556	05-02-2005 12:57 Kind of hard for a picture in 3D of a virtual copy of a RL object in a computer game (I assume since there was a clothes thread just recently this is a related topic) is any sort of competition of the RL object. Its not illegal to photograph things. Or to photograph photos. Now reproducing copyrighted photographs in SL? maybe thats a different stroy. since posting photos on websires .. though extremely common is claimed by the photo owners as copyright infringement. Wouldnt want to know how far this could be pushed .. if it is breaking a copyright to use photographic reprenataion of clothes .. would someone who use permission to reproduce and noted the source, then be advertizing those clothes in SL? And would such a think ultimately be bad for Second Life? Kind of interesting.
blaze Spinnaker 1/2 Serious Join date: 12 Aug 2004 Posts: 5,898	05-02-2005 13:18 From: someone Its not illegal .. to photograph photos. I'm afraid it is. Actually, I think you can pay some pretty stiff fines if you take a video camera into a movie theatre in some states.. _____________________ Taken from The last paragraph on pg. 16 of Cory Ondrejka's paper "Changing Realities: User Creation, Communication, and Innovation in Digital Worlds : "User-created content takes the idea of leveraging player opinions a step further by allowing them to effectively prototype new ideas and features. Developers can then measure which new concepts most improve the products and incorporate them into the game in future patches."
Colette Meiji Registered User Join date: 25 Mar 2005 Posts: 15,556	05-02-2005 13:23 From: blaze Spinnaker I'm afraid it is. Actually, I think you can do some pretty hard time if you take a video camera into a movie theatre in some states.. You deliberately left out the rest of my statement I said its not illegal to photgraph THINGS .. please look above I do mention about copyrighted photos and the like later in my post. It is not infringing on Porshe's copyright of their Car to take a photo of it .. SINCE its a THING .... it is illegal to reproduce a Photographer's copyrighted photo of a Car. I hope this distinction is clear.
Colette Meiji Registered User Join date: 25 Mar 2005 Posts: 15,556	05-02-2005 13:27 From: blaze Spinnaker I'm afraid it is. Actually, I think you can pay some pretty stiff fines if you take a video camera into a movie theatre in some states.. hmm yes i may have mispoke .. it would be illegal to photograph a copyrighted photo and reuse. It shoudlnt be illegal to photograph a phot from an advertizement of a thing , though.. provided the phograph wasnt copyrighted. Also it wouldnt be copyright infringement to photgraph a garment and reproduce that i do not believe?
blaze Spinnaker 1/2 Serious Join date: 12 Aug 2004 Posts: 5,898	05-02-2005 13:28 All visual, literary, and auditory works are copyrighted unless specifically placed into public domain. _____________________ Taken from The last paragraph on pg. 16 of Cory Ondrejka's paper "Changing Realities: User Creation, Communication, and Innovation in Digital Worlds : "User-created content takes the idea of leveraging player opinions a step further by allowing them to effectively prototype new ideas and features. Developers can then measure which new concepts most improve the products and incorporate them into the game in future patches."
Colette Meiji Registered User Join date: 25 Mar 2005 Posts: 15,556	05-02-2005 13:33 removed my posts since im obviously misinformed and my other points were obviously not of interest.
Reitsuki Kojima Witchhunter Join date: 27 Jan 2004 Posts: 5,328	05-02-2005 13:34 From: blaze Spinnaker All visual, literary, and auditory works are copyrighted unless specifically placed into public domain. These are all interesting facts, but to what end, Blaze? Most people know this already. I sense that you have a point, but I'm not seeing it. _____________________ I am myself indifferent honest; but yet I could accuse me of such things that it were better my mother had not borne me: I am very proud, revengeful, ambitious, with more offenses at my beck than I have thoughts to put them in, imagination to give them shape, or time to act them in. What should such fellows as I do crawling between earth and heaven? We are arrant knaves, all; believe none of us.
blaze Spinnaker 1/2 Serious Join date: 12 Aug 2004 Posts: 5,898	05-02-2005 13:40 It's not surprising you're not seeing it because some posts got deleted, so you're only seeing half of the conversation. _____________________ Taken from The last paragraph on pg. 16 of Cory Ondrejka's paper "Changing Realities: User Creation, Communication, and Innovation in Digital Worlds : "User-created content takes the idea of leveraging player opinions a step further by allowing them to effectively prototype new ideas and features. Developers can then measure which new concepts most improve the products and incorporate them into the game in future patches."
Malachi Petunia Gentle Miscreant Join date: 21 Sep 2003 Posts: 3,414	05-02-2005 13:47 I think the thread starter wants to be a intellectual property lawyer. Please note, most people have to go to law school to reach that status. In such schools they usually teach that nothing in law is unequivocal. As someone above has said - Interpretation - that is, there exists no statute or case law that doesn't require it. If the law could be unequivocal, we wouldn't need the judiciary. Intellectual Property is one of the more slippery areas of the law as it was "invented" only recently. So you can cite definititions and make myriad proclamations on the subject and more likely than not be utterly wrong.
blaze Spinnaker 1/2 Serious Join date: 12 Aug 2004 Posts: 5,898	05-02-2005 13:53 Well, you can make proclamations about anything in existence and more than likely be wrong. Well, except math, of course. But even then you could probably be wrong. Anyways, having sat through a very long court case on copyright infringement due to a multi-million dollar suit brought against a company I work for I have more than a passing familarity with the subject. _____________________ Taken from The last paragraph on pg. 16 of Cory Ondrejka's paper "Changing Realities: User Creation, Communication, and Innovation in Digital Worlds : "User-created content takes the idea of leveraging player opinions a step further by allowing them to effectively prototype new ideas and features. Developers can then measure which new concepts most improve the products and incorporate them into the game in future patches."
Meilian Shang crass and pornographic Join date: 22 Mar 2005 Posts: 242	05-02-2005 14:01 I work daily with copyright issues in my job. The law's interpretation is very muddled Even the intellectual property lawyers with whom I consult disagree with each other on many points especially regarding "derivative works." So the only valid statement w/r/t copyright law is "it's one big grey area." If in doubt about it, don't do it. No one can sue you for NOT using their stuff after all
FlipperPA Peregrine Magically Delicious! Join date: 14 Nov 2003 Posts: 3,703	05-02-2005 14:14 The law contradicts itself. Quoting copyright law is like quoting religious scripture... most of the time, its always been translated several times and is subject to heavy interpretation and conjecture. Both are also often used by people for personal gain. Fair use is definitely an interesting question too in SL; while SL is not necessarily an education tool, a recreational tool, or a commercial tool, it is some kind of combination. Copyrights have different power in all three of those realms. Regards, -Flip _____________________ Peregrine Salon: www.PeregrineSalon.com - my consulting company Second Blogger: www.SecondBlogger.com - free, fully integrated Second Life blogging for all avatars!
blaze Spinnaker 1/2 Serious Join date: 12 Aug 2004 Posts: 5,898	05-02-2005 14:19 Well, I don't think there is a lot grey area around taking a photo from a website, pasting it into PS, touching it up with the liquify tool, uploading it into SL and then charging X L$ for it per copy. _____________________ Taken from The last paragraph on pg. 16 of Cory Ondrejka's paper "Changing Realities: User Creation, Communication, and Innovation in Digital Worlds : "User-created content takes the idea of leveraging player opinions a step further by allowing them to effectively prototype new ideas and features. Developers can then measure which new concepts most improve the products and incorporate them into the game in future patches."
pandastrong Fairplay all bout the BANG POW NOW Join date: 16 Aug 2004 Posts: 2,920	05-02-2005 14:25 From: blaze Spinnaker Well, I don't think there is a lot grey area around taking a photo from a website, pasting it into PS, touching it up with the liquify tool, uploading it into SL and then charging X L$ for it per copy. Grey area: A shirt is not the same thing as a "photograph" of a shirt. If the "photograph" of the shirt was copyrighted, it might be a different situation. _____________________ "Honestly, you are a gem -- fun, creative, and possessing strong social convictions. I think LL should be paying you to be in their game." ~ Ulrika Zugzwang on the iconography of pandastrong in the media "That's no good. Someone is going to take your place as SL's cutest boy while you're offline." ~ Ingrid Ingersoll on the topic of LL refusing to pay pandastrong for being in their game.
blaze Spinnaker 1/2 Serious Join date: 12 Aug 2004 Posts: 5,898	05-02-2005 14:33 All visual / literary / auditory productions are automatically copyrighted. _____________________ Taken from The last paragraph on pg. 16 of Cory Ondrejka's paper "Changing Realities: User Creation, Communication, and Innovation in Digital Worlds : "User-created content takes the idea of leveraging player opinions a step further by allowing them to effectively prototype new ideas and features. Developers can then measure which new concepts most improve the products and incorporate them into the game in future patches."
pandastrong Fairplay all bout the BANG POW NOW Join date: 16 Aug 2004 Posts: 2,920	05-02-2005 14:37 From: blaze Spinnaker All visual / literary / auditory productions are automatically copyrighted. You're right. It is all black and white. Too bad for hip-hop. _____________________ "Honestly, you are a gem -- fun, creative, and possessing strong social convictions. I think LL should be paying you to be in their game." ~ Ulrika Zugzwang on the iconography of pandastrong in the media "That's no good. Someone is going to take your place as SL's cutest boy while you're offline." ~ Ingrid Ingersoll on the topic of LL refusing to pay pandastrong for being in their game.
Surreal Farber Cat Herder Join date: 5 Feb 2004 Posts: 2,059	05-02-2005 14:39 The law is such a series of contradicting decisions, that copyright infrigments seems to only apply if the owner has the money, time, and will to pursue someone. Don't forget naming infringements. If I open a burger joint named McDonalds, I should expect a sharply worded cease & desist letter unless I can prove I used the name prior to the golden arches. _____________________ Surreal Phobos 3d Design - putting the hot in psychotic since 2004 Come see our whole line of clothing, animations and accessories in Chaos (37, 198, 43)
blaze Spinnaker 1/2 Serious Join date: 12 Aug 2004 Posts: 5,898	05-02-2005 14:41 From: someone The law is such a series of contradicting decisions, that copyright infrigments seems to only apply if the owner has the money, time, and will to pursue someone This is the ultimate reality of the situation. And usually it's more of a case if the person you're persuing has money. A lot of lawyers will act on commision, but only if they can get some big bux out of it. _____________________ Taken from The last paragraph on pg. 16 of Cory Ondrejka's paper "Changing Realities: User Creation, Communication, and Innovation in Digital Worlds : "User-created content takes the idea of leveraging player opinions a step further by allowing them to effectively prototype new ideas and features. Developers can then measure which new concepts most improve the products and incorporate them into the game in future patches."

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Derivatives are Copyright Infringement