Second Life Forums Archive - WA Disgusting!

Katja Marlowe

Registered User

Join date: 15 Apr 2005

Posts: 421

08-18-2005 09:25

From: Katiahnya Muromachi

I don't think the Welcome Area is THAT bad, at least compared to how it used to be when I first joined a few months back. Back then, there were 3x negrating griefers, scripted axe attacks, people who would troll for arguments just for the sake of spilling abuse, etc. This has gotten a lot better over the last month, which is very cool.

However, I still believe that sound clips really get abused at the WA. They do bother me, as I've heard the same hackeneyed ones 12,589 times over, but I can at least zoom the camera away 50 feet or so, so they're not too loud. However, if I was a newbie just starting the game and had to be subjected to listen to an obnoxiously loud Six Flags 5-second jingle theme spam looped for 15 minutes straight while trying to get some help from a Mentor or while I'm trying to adjust my appearance, I would assume the game developers set that intollerable looping sound bite as their "Welcome Song", and would proceed to laugh at how cheezily amatuerish SL is as I logged off.

I don't mean to come off sounding like a complainer, but I really like SL and I want to see it grow, which means putting forth a concerted effort to welcome newbies, give them some freebies and advice, and do my best to make them realize SL is a cool place where they should stay.

Ha! Actually the damn sound effects are everywhere in game. SL needs to provide a way to turn off sound effects while still being able to keep the streaming music so that people can enjoy one while losing the other.

Katja Marlowe

Registered User

Join date: 15 Apr 2005

Posts: 421

08-18-2005 09:26

From: Cindy Claveau

I've been a regular at 3 different clubs over the last month, and in *every* one of them, newbies (you can spot 'em a mile away) were not only welcomed warmly, they were showered with free items and landmarks to more free stuff, given help, and even ported to someone's private home to show them how to use inventory and unpack boxes. I have at least half a dozen good friends on my Friends' list that I met this way. In every case, the time I spent helping them has been repaid many fold in loyalty and good will.

All that said, the first place I take any newbie is the Shelter. Awesome place.

Yeah, most every club I've ever hung at or worked in has done the same thing. And some of my friends have come from newbies I've helped after they put a box on their head.

Cocoanut Koala

Coco's Cottages

Join date: 7 Feb 2005

Posts: 7,903

08-18-2005 09:52

From: Jim Lumiere

You make some interesting points Hank, and I would agree. Just getting rid of the WA will shift the problem. Beyond that, it will not only shift the problem but distribute it in such a way that a real solution might never be possible.

I dont think that enough of this discussion is trying to get to root cause; it seems to me that the discussion is focusing on symptoms and consequences .. but very little about root cause.

Considering the stridency of some of the remarks I wonder if there isn't some persona agenda regarding Welcome Areas percolating thru this discussion.

Anyway, I agree .. that the Welcome Area should remain and that some attention be paid to making the experience more enjoyable for new comers. And perhaps funding in support of staffing, training and tools would be very sell spent in the long run. I, for one, would consider it an investment in our future, and not a short-sighted attempt at a near-term fix.
Jim

Yes.

"Hi, Strawbearry! Welcome to Second Life" would have been a reasonable thing to say to my obviously brand-new AV at any of the several times I was in the welcome area for more than five minutes by some of the regulars on the forum who tend to hang around the WA.

I was surprised to not hear that said to myself, and also surprised to not hear that said to any of the newer players we were talking to when we did our fun little research thing (which at least gave the new players some money!). As it was, we were at least interacting with the new players in a fun way, instead of sitting around like bumps on a pickle like I saw those OTHER regulars doing, who took time out of their busy IM schedule or whatever only to criticize us.

Maybe it's a hang-over from those bad WA days with all the neg-rating and everything. If so, it's now time to ease up on the heavy policing, everybody, and start letting the areas be some sort of fun and nice and welcoming, rather than either (a) a bunch of zombies or (b) a bunch of in-joking among not-new players.

Don't know how to do it? Learn from Travis, he knows how.
Travis is in the wrong damn place. He should be running all the welcome areas.

coco

Katja Marlowe

Registered User

Join date: 15 Apr 2005

Posts: 421

08-18-2005 10:06

When I joined and finished with the orientation, the one person I knew the name of was not IW at the time. There were people chatting in the WA I was in, but no one bothered to say hi to me either. I used the time to teach myself how to walk.

Luckily for me though, a Linden did run into me at one point and did talk to me and helped me with a couple of the game functions. So my experience was at least positive to some extent.

Issarlk Chatnoir

Cross L. apologist.

Join date: 3 Oct 2004

Posts: 424

08-18-2005 12:34

From: SuezanneC Baskerville

People don't use cars here, they play cars, and if they want to play cars, they can pay for the space it takes to play with them on.

Not gonna happen. Bye bye roads.

From: someone

Linden Research owns the resources you car toy players lay unjustified claim to . Linden Research has the right to sell those resources to people who are willing to pay for them.

Resources on seconlife are infinite, just add another server *poof* 65000m2 just appeared. No need to sell the roads.

_____________________

Vincit omnia Chaos

From: Flugelhorn McHenry

Anyway, ignore me, just listen to the cow

Foulcault Mechanique

Father Cheesemonkey

Join date: 28 Mar 2005

Posts: 557

08-18-2005 12:44

Just spoke with a friend of mine that signed up. He said eh finally got out of the learning area as he got lost somehow and once he made it to the welcome area he wanted to go back to the lesson area at least there he would answer himself when asked a question.

_____________________

Foulcault
"Keep telling yourself that and someday you just might believe it."

"Every Technomage knows the 14 words that will make someone fall in love with you forever, but she only needed one.
"Hello""
Galen from Babylon 5 Crusade

From: Jeska Linden

I'm moving this over to Off-Topic for further Pez ruminations.

Cocoanut Koala

Coco's Cottages

Join date: 7 Feb 2005

Posts: 7,903

08-18-2005 12:51

I may be confused, but there seems to be talk about not just getting rid of the welcome area, but the orientation island? Not sure. Anyway, I think everybody should have to start with orientation island.

My first time, I went to welcome area, and my friend met me there. Cause I wasn't gonna skip any of the intro experience; I'm thorough that way. I figure a welcome area is a good thing, and I'm not sure why they are going to offer the various other things instead (other people's places), but that might work out fine, cause usually whenever and wherever there are more choices, things are better.

I would probably still choose the welcome area, unless I was just DYING to see a club, or whatever, for whatever reason. Then I would go on to choose some of the other offerings, assuming they are listed AGAIN at the welcome areas. I'd hate to have to write them all down or never see them again, know what I'm saying?

You're in a hurry to get on the game, you choose one of the places, and then you forget what the others were - they need to be listed at the welcome areas and other places as well, I would think, so the new player who is interested in all of it can make a tour of them all.

coco

SuezanneC Baskerville

Forums Rock!

Join date: 22 Dec 2003

Posts: 14,229

08-18-2005 13:39

From: someone

Resources on seconlife are infinite, just add another server *poof* 65000m2 just appeared. No need to sell the roads.

Servers are not free. To get them requires money. That makes them scarce in the economic sense of something the acquistion of which requires the loss of something else.

Linden Lab could sell the space and collect tier on the virtual land occupied by the roads no one finds worth paying a penny for. It's their right to do so.

People might find it fun to use your property some way but not worth enough to pay you for. That doesn't give them the right to keep you from selling your property.

The threads not about roads. It's the notion of having Linden Land that needs to go. Linden Lab is not in the content production business, according to it's owner. Roads, Welcome Areas, amusement parks, etc. are content, and hence not what Linden Research wants to do. They aren't charging for these services, hence aren't making money on them, but instead paying money out on providing this content and getting nothing in return.

They are wanting to make a large increase in the customers base, an increase that will include a large number of people for non-English-speaking counties.

They want to be able to have Korean, Japanese, and German speaking entry points, and they want poly-lingual, poly-cultural entry points without have to pay for a huge number of poly-lingual liaisons.

_____________________

-

So long to these forums, the vBulletin forums that used to be at forums.secondlife.com. I will miss them.

I can be found on the web by searching for "SuezanneC Baskerville", or go to

http://www.google.com/profiles/suezanne

-

http://lindenlab.tribe.net/ created on 11/19/03.

Members: Ben, Catherine, Colin, Cory, Dan, Doug, Jim, Philip, Phoenix, Richard,
Robin, and Ryan

-

Verkin Raven

Registered User

Join date: 5 Jan 2005

Posts: 243

08-18-2005 16:12

Sorry, but roads and waterways are the only places guaranteed to find a relatively no-bullshit travel session with a vehicle or otherwise. Now, if I dropped L$600 on a Cubey plane, I'm sure as FUCK not going to pay some hateful unappreciative private land owner for the right to use it because *poof*, there's suddenly no public places to use it. I pay LL $10 USD a month to stay in SL, at least some amount of that counts toward a road "toll".

With all the bullshit security scripts and ban fences, I simply cannot trust a purely private grid to develop a cohesive infastructure. LF said it already. Abbots is a proposed spawn point, for eff sake. It's impossible to deny the positive impact of vehicles in SL, even if they don't have the fidelity of Flight Simulator.

WA Disgusting!
Katja Marlowe Registered User Join date: 15 Apr 2005 Posts: 421	08-18-2005 09:25 From: Katiahnya Muromachi I don't think the Welcome Area is THAT bad, at least compared to how it used to be when I first joined a few months back. Back then, there were 3x negrating griefers, scripted axe attacks, people who would troll for arguments just for the sake of spilling abuse, etc. This has gotten a lot better over the last month, which is very cool. However, I still believe that sound clips really get abused at the WA. They do bother me, as I've heard the same hackeneyed ones 12,589 times over, but I can at least zoom the camera away 50 feet or so, so they're not too loud. However, if I was a newbie just starting the game and had to be subjected to listen to an obnoxiously loud Six Flags 5-second jingle theme spam looped for 15 minutes straight while trying to get some help from a Mentor or while I'm trying to adjust my appearance, I would assume the game developers set that intollerable looping sound bite as their "Welcome Song", and would proceed to laugh at how cheezily amatuerish SL is as I logged off. I don't mean to come off sounding like a complainer, but I really like SL and I want to see it grow, which means putting forth a concerted effort to welcome newbies, give them some freebies and advice, and do my best to make them realize SL is a cool place where they should stay. Ha! Actually the damn sound effects are everywhere in game. SL needs to provide a way to turn off sound effects while still being able to keep the streaming music so that people can enjoy one while losing the other.
Katja Marlowe Registered User Join date: 15 Apr 2005 Posts: 421	08-18-2005 09:26 From: Cindy Claveau I've been a regular at 3 different clubs over the last month, and in every one of them, newbies (you can spot 'em a mile away) were not only welcomed warmly, they were showered with free items and landmarks to more free stuff, given help, and even ported to someone's private home to show them how to use inventory and unpack boxes. I have at least half a dozen good friends on my Friends' list that I met this way. In every case, the time I spent helping them has been repaid many fold in loyalty and good will. All that said, the first place I take any newbie is the Shelter. Awesome place. Yeah, most every club I've ever hung at or worked in has done the same thing. And some of my friends have come from newbies I've helped after they put a box on their head.
Cocoanut Koala Coco's Cottages Join date: 7 Feb 2005 Posts: 7,903	08-18-2005 09:52 From: Jim Lumiere You make some interesting points Hank, and I would agree. Just getting rid of the WA will shift the problem. Beyond that, it will not only shift the problem but distribute it in such a way that a real solution might never be possible. I dont think that enough of this discussion is trying to get to root cause; it seems to me that the discussion is focusing on symptoms and consequences .. but very little about root cause. Considering the stridency of some of the remarks I wonder if there isn't some persona agenda regarding Welcome Areas percolating thru this discussion. Anyway, I agree .. that the Welcome Area should remain and that some attention be paid to making the experience more enjoyable for new comers. And perhaps funding in support of staffing, training and tools would be very sell spent in the long run. I, for one, would consider it an investment in our future, and not a short-sighted attempt at a near-term fix. Jim Yes. "Hi, Strawbearry! Welcome to Second Life" would have been a reasonable thing to say to my obviously brand-new AV at any of the several times I was in the welcome area for more than five minutes by some of the regulars on the forum who tend to hang around the WA. I was surprised to not hear that said to myself, and also surprised to not hear that said to any of the newer players we were talking to when we did our fun little research thing (which at least gave the new players some money!). As it was, we were at least interacting with the new players in a fun way, instead of sitting around like bumps on a pickle like I saw those OTHER regulars doing, who took time out of their busy IM schedule or whatever only to criticize us. Maybe it's a hang-over from those bad WA days with all the neg-rating and everything. If so, it's now time to ease up on the heavy policing, everybody, and start letting the areas be some sort of fun and nice and welcoming, rather than either (a) a bunch of zombies or (b) a bunch of in-joking among not-new players. Don't know how to do it? Learn from Travis, he knows how. Travis is in the wrong damn place. He should be running all the welcome areas. coco
Katja Marlowe Registered User Join date: 15 Apr 2005 Posts: 421	08-18-2005 10:06 When I joined and finished with the orientation, the one person I knew the name of was not IW at the time. There were people chatting in the WA I was in, but no one bothered to say hi to me either. I used the time to teach myself how to walk. Luckily for me though, a Linden did run into me at one point and did talk to me and helped me with a couple of the game functions. So my experience was at least positive to some extent.
Issarlk Chatnoir Cross L. apologist. Join date: 3 Oct 2004 Posts: 424	08-18-2005 12:34 From: SuezanneC Baskerville People don't use cars here, they play cars, and if they want to play cars, they can pay for the space it takes to play with them on. Not gonna happen. Bye bye roads. From: someone Linden Research owns the resources you car toy players lay unjustified claim to . Linden Research has the right to sell those resources to people who are willing to pay for them. Resources on seconlife are infinite, just add another server poof 65000m2 just appeared. No need to sell the roads. _____________________ Vincit omnia Chaos From: Flugelhorn McHenry Anyway, ignore me, just listen to the cow
Foulcault Mechanique Father Cheesemonkey Join date: 28 Mar 2005 Posts: 557	08-18-2005 12:44 Just spoke with a friend of mine that signed up. He said eh finally got out of the learning area as he got lost somehow and once he made it to the welcome area he wanted to go back to the lesson area at least there he would answer himself when asked a question. _____________________ Foulcault "Keep telling yourself that and someday you just might believe it." "Every Technomage knows the 14 words that will make someone fall in love with you forever, but she only needed one. "Hello"" Galen from Babylon 5 Crusade From: Jeska Linden I'm moving this over to Off-Topic for further Pez ruminations.
Cocoanut Koala Coco's Cottages Join date: 7 Feb 2005 Posts: 7,903	08-18-2005 12:51 I may be confused, but there seems to be talk about not just getting rid of the welcome area, but the orientation island? Not sure. Anyway, I think everybody should have to start with orientation island. My first time, I went to welcome area, and my friend met me there. Cause I wasn't gonna skip any of the intro experience; I'm thorough that way. I figure a welcome area is a good thing, and I'm not sure why they are going to offer the various other things instead (other people's places), but that might work out fine, cause usually whenever and wherever there are more choices, things are better. I would probably still choose the welcome area, unless I was just DYING to see a club, or whatever, for whatever reason. Then I would go on to choose some of the other offerings, assuming they are listed AGAIN at the welcome areas. I'd hate to have to write them all down or never see them again, know what I'm saying? You're in a hurry to get on the game, you choose one of the places, and then you forget what the others were - they need to be listed at the welcome areas and other places as well, I would think, so the new player who is interested in all of it can make a tour of them all. coco
SuezanneC Baskerville Forums Rock! Join date: 22 Dec 2003 Posts: 14,229	08-18-2005 13:39 From: someone Resources on seconlife are infinite, just add another server poof 65000m2 just appeared. No need to sell the roads. Servers are not free. To get them requires money. That makes them scarce in the economic sense of something the acquistion of which requires the loss of something else. Linden Lab could sell the space and collect tier on the virtual land occupied by the roads no one finds worth paying a penny for. It's their right to do so. People might find it fun to use your property some way but not worth enough to pay you for. That doesn't give them the right to keep you from selling your property. The threads not about roads. It's the notion of having Linden Land that needs to go. Linden Lab is not in the content production business, according to it's owner. Roads, Welcome Areas, amusement parks, etc. are content, and hence not what Linden Research wants to do. They aren't charging for these services, hence aren't making money on them, but instead paying money out on providing this content and getting nothing in return. They are wanting to make a large increase in the customers base, an increase that will include a large number of people for non-English-speaking counties. They want to be able to have Korean, Japanese, and German speaking entry points, and they want poly-lingual, poly-cultural entry points without have to pay for a huge number of poly-lingual liaisons. _____________________ - So long to these forums, the vBulletin forums that used to be at forums.secondlife.com. I will miss them. I can be found on the web by searching for "SuezanneC Baskerville", or go to http://www.google.com/profiles/suezanne - http://lindenlab.tribe.net/ created on 11/19/03. Members: Ben, Catherine, Colin, Cory, Dan, Doug, Jim, Philip, Phoenix, Richard, Robin, and Ryan -
Verkin Raven Registered User Join date: 5 Jan 2005 Posts: 243	08-18-2005 16:12 Sorry, but roads and waterways are the only places guaranteed to find a relatively no-bullshit travel session with a vehicle or otherwise. Now, if I dropped L$600 on a Cubey plane, I'm sure as FUCK not going to pay some hateful unappreciative private land owner for the right to use it because poof, there's suddenly no public places to use it. I pay LL $10 USD a month to stay in SL, at least some amount of that counts toward a road "toll". With all the bullshit security scripts and ban fences, I simply cannot trust a purely private grid to develop a cohesive infastructure. LF said it already. Abbots is a proposed spawn point, for eff sake. It's impossible to deny the positive impact of vehicles in SL, even if they don't have the fidelity of Flight Simulator.

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