WA Disgusting!

I've been a regular at 3 different clubs over the last month, and in *every* one of them, newbies (you can spot 'em a mile away) were not only welcomed warmly, they were showered with free items and landmarks to more free stuff, given help, and even ported to someone's private home to show them how to use inventory and unpack boxes. I have at least half a dozen good friends on my Friends' list that I met this way. In every case, the time I spent helping them has been repaid many fold in loyalty and good will.

All that said, the first place I take any newbie is the Shelter. Awesome place.

I agree Kat. It has been very peaceful in the WA for a bit now. It was real bad for awhile. The only real problem I have seen lately is 'certain people' abusing the AR system. They know who they are and I really pity them. They really have nothing better to do than sit online in the WA for days at a time running around in circles or floating above and report any little thing they see. I say 'they' because it is mainly one person with a ton of alts so it looks like the person is getting a lot of people reporting them. They have a vendetta against most of the people in the WA and are looking to get rid of them one by one by petty and uncalled for reporting. Maybe we should all dress the same, act the same, and all stand in a straight line and not talk...how fun that would be. Lord forbid anyone make a mistake.

There is a difference between people who are being a total ass and causing trouble for everyone and someone who slips and says a forbidden combination of letters, or an IM that accidentally gets to the chat screen that may not be PG. This mass reporter even reported someone for excessive flirting. Oh noes! Not flirting! Oh the Horror! It has become ricidulous. No one likes a tattletale. Go cry to your mama. I don't like the AR system and have never reported anyone. I learned a long time ago to just mute people who annoy me and move my cam when they come around. Abusing the AR system is considered a form a griefing in my eyes. There have been plenty of new people around and havent heard a one mention that they didn't like the WA as it is now and has been since the major drama left. I help out when I can and give females some clothes and stuff to get started.

Just be careful in the WA anymore because it seems if you so much as sneeze you will be reported.

ZsuZsanna,

I cannot vouch for the veracity of this, but I was told by another SLer, who said they were told by a Linden that LL keeps track of who is reporting and how often. They went on to say that if the report happy person is later accused of abuse by other player(s), the number of of times they have reported others (especially if frivolously) is factored in to how LL deals with claims of abuse against that person, and possibly what degree of discplinary action is visited upon them.

I like linden land. I am not convinced laissez faire capitalism will, in fact, provide roads for me to drive on, parks for me to walks in, or water land unobstructed by a boxy strip club.
Frankly the linden land and buids are some of the nicest in the game. If it wasn't for LL I am convinced player terraforming would utterly ruin every intersting lad scap in the quest to make flat land.

Not everyone feels that capitalism is the anwser to all spcial problems in a video game.

Say I piss off a contingent of people due to my forum posts. Let's say, the top 1% of land holders.

The next day I decide to go exploring.

Whoops! I can't, because I've been permanantly banned on 4 out of 10 plots in the world, thus making anything other than direct teleportation a near impossibility.

We need public byways. Period. This is a basic tenant of space design.

LF

Still, a network of roads makes no commercial sense in a world where people fly. Alley in shops yes, interconnected roads no.

So the road would disapear, simple as that. And not enough people drive vehicle on them to make taxing road users interesting.

Think long term. When we finally get a decent physics system, you WILL see people clamoring for roads. And history has shown that residents have a rotten track record when it comes to collaboritive, multi-sim infrastructure building.

LF

I'm amused that someone who considers the Welcome Area completely pointless spends so much time there.

CHA-CHING!! Exactly...

So far, where else could one go to meet the brand new customers?

Thank goodness multiple entry points are being established.

A very simple solution that will cut poor behavior in the WA by 1/2 is to not allow playing of audio clips. They can set the area to no create and no script, why not also set it to no audio?

Excuse me .. but I just told you what I use roads for .. and you even quoted that. Its very ... something ... for you to turn around and say they have "no functional use whatever". I dont believe anyone should make that sort of categorical statement.

Now if you want to say they serve no useful purpose to you ... that could be a very accurate statement.

But your statement here just completely dismisses me and my opinion .. and I didn't expect that sort of dismissal from a neighbor.



I apologize if my very personal reaction to this particular message has taken us off-topic. In an effort to get back to it. I can't say much from my own experience about the welcome areas. Anytime I spent any time in one .. nobody talked to me. And the avies I said Hi to didn't respond. So I didn't hang around.

Jim

People don't use cars here, they play cars, and if they want to play cars, they can pay for the space it takes to play with them on.

Linden Research owns the resources you car toy players lay unjustified claim to . Linden Research has the right to sell those resources to people who are willing to pay for them.

Jim, you didn't say you used the roads, you said you fly along them. Just because you fly through someone's space doesn't mean you get the right to stop them from using their resources as they see fit.

At any rate, Linden Research is letting new customers enter at places other than than Linden Land, LindenCo can see the value in reducing or eliminating it's role in providing entry points back, it doesn't matter what the customers think because it's not the customers right to decide.

This benefits to LR from reduced content provision on it's part will be even more important as the internationalization program increases both the sheer number of problem causing customers to deal with and the new problems that would arise due to languge and cultural differences. Linden Labs doesn't want to have to deal with all that, it wants it's customers to deal with that while it tries to make a better VR.

YOu keep missing the point so Im going to stop trying ... I use the roadways .. the rights of way the roads provide is important for flying just as it is for driving.

I give up trying to make you see my point.

Pretty good summary! I definitely fall into categories 1 and 4, and pretty much 3. Definitely not 2.

I agree with so many people in this thread I hardly know who to quote. Absolutely I think the Linden infrastructure should be there.
Every place needs central places, a capital, parks, that sort of thing. And there stuff IS pretty, most of it. It gives verasimilitude (sp?) to the world.

And about roads - hey, who really needs houses? Or clubs? Or kitchens? Or - well, pretty much anything we have in SL. I mean, we don't REALLY do any of those things. But we have it all. So why should roads and central gathering areas and the like be any different?

I wish there were MORE central gathering areas. Not just welcome areas, but neat park-like places and coffee houses, etc.

On my alt I created not long ago, I ended up going into a welcome area every time I logged the alt in. I saw some names I knew from the forums. Nobody ever did talk to me! I didn't want them to, and I didn't talk to them, either, lol - but I did hang around long enough to notice I wasn't talked to at all.

When I first joined the game, on my first AV, I didn't much want to talk to anybody either, but this one guy did talk to me - it was Gene Poole, I think - and gave me some good landmarks. That was great. He wasn't pushy or anything, but he did speak to me first, and so I spoke to him, and that's how I discovered Spitooney Island and some other places.

The other time I went to a welcome area was recently with some friends to do a little skit/spoof fun thing, where we offered money for answering questions. We were dressed up like those people you see in the mall, with suits and so forth, and had some kind of name for the research organization (I forget the name, as this wasn't my idea; I was just along for the ride). It would have been more fun but there was at least one person there who didn't like that idea, and kept telling us we weren't supposed to "solicit" in the WA. When someone whopped a big FIC sign over us, I figured I'd better leave,, being as how I was afraid I'd get my friends in trouble by mere association. So I think I know what people are talking about when they talk about people who hang around there just to report others.

Once before, same friend and I and others got in some ridiculous AV's and went by teapot to the welcome area, and invited people along for the ride. Several came! Again, fun, humor, you know, all that. Not that stuffy "you're soliciting" and ARing and all that.

My other problem with the welcome areas is I don't know how to FIND them, unless someone TP's me there.

Overall, on this general topic, I say SPARE me from a world that is entirely player-run. All us Indians need a chief, and that chief is LL.

coco

The reason the Welcome Area as it has been for many months now needs to be abolished is precisely because the experience that greets brand new customers is critical to the new customer retention rate.

The reason I have spent so much time hanging at the Welcome Area has a lot to do with this quote from the http://secondlife.com/community/volunteer.php page " Do you like hanging out in the Welcome Area and answering questions?".

Wanting to replace a broken lightbulb doesn't mean you think illumination is unimportant.

Wanting to replace a worn out old junker of a vehicle doesn't mean you think transportation is unimportant. Quite the opposite.

Your little zinger doesn't make any sense at all.

I almost did not make it past the welcome area. I signed on and there were some clowns there making racial statements and trying to make things more confusing for me.

Luckily for me I met someone rather quickly who got me out of there and showed me around SL.

The other entry points will be just as bad if LL decides to get rid of the WA area. The solution to the problem is not to get rid of the Welcome Area, but to staff it 24/7 with Liaisons (at least one FULL TIME) and paid Mentors (really paid, not given token L$ and give them the training and tools they need).

It's the same with Instructors. LL doesn't pay enough and doesn't provide the tools necessary to get the job done. Most instructors I know taught not for the money, but because they enjoyed teaching. Mentors help newbies because they enjoy helping. Many instructors and mentors are upset because LL doesn't provide the resources for them to do a proper job. Instructors need a "teaching" sim, mentors need offices, resources, notecards, updates, etc.

So saying the "WA Sucks" or is disguisting is fine and all, but getting rid of it in favor of commercial or privately run locations won't solve the core problem. It'll just shift the problem elsewhere. You'll have worse staffing problems at private destinations.

But, but, but, that would like, you know, cost real money that could be spent on developing Pre-Teen Andorran SL. Sheesh!

Troublemakers can be banned from the new entry point parcels by the parcel owner or group officers of group owned land. This is a big improvement over the current practice.

Having people come in at multiple places is good too, groups of entry point groupies with differing tastes in behavioral style can split up and not be in each other's hair.

LR has had the option to have fulltime 24/7 Liason coverage all along; it seems pretty clear they don't want to pay the three fulltime salaries that would take, and I certainly don't blame them.

Saying "If only LR would spend throw another 100,000 dollars a year for 24 hour liaison coverage of the Welcome Area" doesn't do any good because it's just not gonna happen. Linden Research has better things to spend it's money on.

The stated problems "racist comments", "troublemakers", "nothing to do", etc. won't be fixed by abolishing the Welcome Area. Training and welcoming newcomers to SL requires a concentrated area that is staffed by people trained to do a job. That requires money to be spent. If LL wants to remove that service for USD$ reasons, that's fine. But saying that having people rez at various commercial and non-profit locations is gonna fix the core problem, then you are wrong.

It comes down to this: "saying that money won't fix everything" is a great one-liner to dismiss any arguement for proper funding. Just throwing money at a problem as the only solution won't fix the problem. True. But I'm not suggesting that we just increase salaries. You need to make a concerted effort to train, fund, and provide resources for people to do a good job. I seriously doubt that the momentum will stay the same with various private destinations. And all of that requires money.

If LL isn't interested in training newbies, then fine. Disband the Instructor and Mentor groups. But don't pretend that not funding those groups properly and asking them to do more with less is gonna fix the issues that have been brought up.

You make some interesting points Hank, and I would agree. Just getting rid of the WA will shift the problem. Beyond that, it will not only shift the problem but distribute it in such a way that a real solution might never be possible.


I dont think that enough of this discussion is trying to get to root cause; it seems to me that the discussion is focusing on symptoms and consequences .. but very little about root cause.

Considering the stridency of some of the remarks I wonder if there isn't some persona agenda regarding Welcome Areas percolating thru this discussion.

Anyway, I agree .. that the Welcome Area should remain and that some attention be paid to making the experience more enjoyable for new comers. And perhaps funding in support of staffing, training and tools would be very sell spent in the long run. I, for one, would consider it an investment in our future, and not a short-sighted attempt at a near-term fix.
Jim

I concur 100% Hank.

Mentors, Greeters and Instructors need the proper tools to do the job. Some people like Brace have spent a lot of time putting together note cards to hand out to new people, but the problem is that not everyone knows about them, so they make their own and things are not consistant. Also, there is no incentive to update the information on them and no accountability to do so.

There should be some consistancy with regard to how new people are addressed at the Welcome area and with the materials that are given to new players. I am not avocating eliminating people from hanging out at the Welcome areas, in fact, I think that all the really cool AV's and things people bring to the area are a plus. It's just that there needs to be more focus and consistancy on new player recognition and assistance.

Also tools for instructors are virtually non-existant.

I think there needs to be at least one Linden dedicated to organizing the player assistance. Paying the Mentors and Greeters in Lindens is also a great idea and a good incentive that would then allow them to hold people accountable for adhereing to some kind of schedule so that the welcome areas are covered 24 X 7.

The same applies to instructors. Including Education Events in the new Event listing rules was probably not the best idea because it makes it much more difficult to offer a class more than one or two times during the day.

While many players have picked up that torch and carried it with regard to building instructional areas, you can't expect them to carry it forever. LL should have a common educational area that people can schedule to teach in.

Oh and BTW - I miss your scripting classes.

When you boil it all down, there is are two problems at the WA.

1) A small group of people with aggression problems who engage in behavior that is clearly forbidden in the WA in a bid to attract attention (negative attention is still attention) to themselves.

2) a dearth of Mentors and Greeters actually hanging around the WA. I will go out on a limb and speculate that less than 20 of the current roster of Mentors actually spends even 1 hour in WA each week. To a degree, I don't blame them. The lack of support from LL for dealing with negative attention seekers is driving the people who want to help away. It takes too long for a Liason to show up and when they do, they rarely do anything about the problem unless it is so far over the line that they have to act. So, we know the Liasons are overwhelmed and cannot police the area. This leaves Mentors in a position of getting tired of not getting any support in trying to help LL.

If we take it as a given that there will not ever be 24/7 LL supervision and the problem people are not going to be dealt with, then the only solution left is get at least 3 Mentors and Greeters in the WA at all times with the role of contacting each new resident under 1 week old, even if it is only to say "Hello, if you have any questions, let me know."

Also, create Senior Level Mentor that has the ability to freeze or deliver time outs. We residents can solve this problem, but there needs to be a tool set that certain Mentors have that will enable them to exert some control over the situation. I think paying Mentors is not a good idea because it removes the impartiality from what we do. Many newbies ask me if I am paid by LL to be helping them, so I think it important Mentors remain volunteers to keep some street cred. There are other ways to create incentives for Mentors to be active participants in the WA, maybe tier or land benefits? I don't know, I'm just throwing out suggestions...