Does LL = George Soros?

Last try as I actually have to go teach classes today where there is hope that those being instructed MIGHT be able to receive and benefit from that instruction.

You are mistaking the specific of the analogy with the construct. For the purposes of this comparison, standing around and watching is approving. I am not equating murder to holding a protest. The latter are actions of participants. We've established the Lindens didn' view themselves as participants and certainly don't want us to view them that way.

Their actions, however, of simply being present, lends an air or an appearance of approval.

Is that clear? If not, you are beyond help - at least from me.

As for the "great comebacks"... when I speak to children, it is usually in a language that they can understand. If I engage in conversation with people who act and argue like children, I often find that their responses are more predictable/undersandable (and unbelievably, but true, often more coherent) when I respond to childish responses in kind. Yours have been quite off the mark, overly emotional and border on irrationality despite an apparent grasp of a fairly large vocabulary. That's not not normally the case for you in the forums.. why in this thread? Strange. Anyway... I have wasted enough of my time with your emotional overreactions and beyond the pale comments. Don't go away mad. Just go away.

Bastage? Moi?!?!?! Why are you talking about my parentage?

Momma was a petrie dish and Daddy a hyperdermic needle! What he hell did they do to you?

As for hunting me down... please do. I love being chased almost as much as being caught and spanked....um.. having unmentionable stuff doen to me.

No doubt, I agree with Kris, Cris and Pen here.

You just went off the deep end. Dachau in comparision to a political rally?

Equating the Linden presence there to that of German nationals dring the wholesale slaughter and subsequent loading of 1000s of dead bodies on train cars & pyres of dead bodies withing sight of villagers? Come on man, you just destroyed any credibility you had (with me anyway). It's one thing to surmise that somebody's using a project as a vehicle, but you've now entered the waters of paranoid fantasy. Curmudgeon is the wrong label. Welcome to Disneyland.

Nope.. sorry.. wrong.. read the last post to Cris. Separate yourself from the specifics and look at the analogy.

As for your comment about "using a project as a vehicle", you are mixing up what is discussed another thread and what is discussed here. Here, I am only discussing the actions of the Lindens.... not the event at all.

And I have been to Disneyland. Great place. Reminds me a lot of SL. Fantasyland for a bunch of whackos - including myself.

You are the one who does not get this point, not me, Korg. The presence of a Linden at the event was a deterrent to any kind of griefing or problems that might have otherwise arisen. They are often proactive at events that may be subject to problems. It does not imply approval of the event, again any more than police presence at an event implies tacit approval of the event. This is a simple, clear point that is lost upon you.

Ok..let me get this straight. So you are saying everyone that watches a protest, but is not directly involved, must somehow "appear" to share the view of the protestors? So if I'm standing on a street corner, and I watch a group of protestors walk by, I "appear" to be in favor of whatever they are protesting??? Or the police show up to a large protest in order to keep the peace, they must somehow "appear" to be in favor of the protest? What planet you from??

Hope you're not teaching your students this. To follow the concentration camp analogy up, your theory is like a Nazi propoganda line. "Don't be seen near the Jews or you will "appear" to be one and be swept off to a concentration camp." Sorry..at least for the time being we live in a relatively free country and and SL is pretty tolerant of free speech and differing opinions. The Lindens can show up and watch any damn thing they please without endorsing the view points presented or in anyway aggreeing with anything stated, other than the right to state it, without griefing or retaliation.

Okay. So the white policemen in the Deep South in the 50s and 60s who wached Blacks being beaten and denied their rights WERE NOT complicit in the actions of society as a whole at the time?

Give it a break.

That other thread propogated this one, so it is relevant.

I am looking at the analogy, it's one of the most baseless, misinformed and ill conceived I have ever had the misfortune of reading.

Now don't shoot yourself in the other foot, you're already teetering...

Again, you are making comparisons to events where some kind of rights were violated or some transgression was taking place. This event did not violate TOS at all, and was fully legal in both SL and in RL. Why do you keep making analogies to the wrong thing?

Korg, that makes no sense in this context. Who was being beaten in the SL protest event??? The Lindens were there to stop anyone from being "virtually" beaten. You have things reversed...

Oh Jesus H Christ Korg, WHERE IS THE CRIME AT THIS RALLY? Who was being beaten? Whose rights where being infringed upon, THIS is why your analogy is SO flawed, there IS NO crime, therefore the Lindens are complicit to NOTHING!

I am out the door after this...

"as a deterrent" - YOUR WORDS, not mine. So, they interfered with the actions of the particpants by their mere presence... Don't you see that? And that was the intent! How can you not see that?

The presence of police in uniform at any event implies a specific stance by the government in the real world... it implies a point of view. It says, "We are prepared to deal with any trouble with force." That's a pretty clear statement. Further, "We are prepared to use the maximum force of the legal bureacracy - if necessary or at our whim - to deal with actions that we, the governments, decide is detrimental to what we see as the good of society AT THIS POINT IN TIME." Arrests can be made and charges not brought.. it happens all the time. It happened well before 9/11, the Patriot Act, and it will continue to happen in the future. It's the naure of how governments act.

I give up. You'll miss this point or dismiss the argument while accusing me of missing your point.. Screw it. Defending the actions of someone else without understanding the consequences of their action-communications relationship is what you are engaging in. It's not "wrong" per se, just ignorant. (Look that word up, it's not an insult). I do get frustrated dealing with ignorance and I have reached my limit for the day.

Um, "Anti-Bush" rally.. seems pretty obvious to me.

The Lindens were complicit in the event being conducted, being conducted as it WAS conducted, and complicit in applying pressure (by their very presence) of inhibiting the open exchange of ideas by threatening "an ambiguous and undefined something".

Sorry, can't be more clear thatn that.

You don't agree. Tough.

So I guess if you had it your way there would be no police presence at RL rallys either? Sorry that's not gonna happen and to think that because there is means that the cops are supporting one side is farcical. There are City, Local, State and Federal police present at presidential campaign rallies, anti war rallies etc, etc. This hardy makes them complicit of anything. it's called keeping the peace. I hardly figured you for an anarchist.

The only implied threat here was that which is implied at any event that Linden's monitor. If you break the TOS, which is a STATIC, henceforth unambiguous set of rules, you will be dealt with. This one happened to grab LL attention because it was debated about quite a bit in the public eye of LL and SL's residents. Haney and Jill as well as event attendees on both sides of the issue have stated that the Lindens were not supporting one side or another. Why don't you save all the reckless analogies and just say it Korg. You are calling them liars.

He doesn't need to. By using veiled analogies to Hitler and racist cops, he can make statements about them while claiming "they are just examples". It really is of no use, Nolan, he is convinced that by Linden Lab being there at all, they are guilty of siding with those who put on the event, and no amount of logic or the facts of the situation are going to change that. He will just continue to condescend and impune the intelligence/maturity of anyone who does not agree with him, instead of just responding to the merits of the post.

*hugs* Kris - you are such a sweetheart to me

And, I apologize to those reading who had to see me get so upset. I am usually diplomatic and respectful in my speech. And I honestly do have a pretty thick skin. Being told to "get a life" just sort of set me off. Sorry about that. I should not have bitten.

Ok.. /end thread hijack

I think you are the only one it is obvious to. You're saying that protesting someone or something is the same as physically beating them? Or even interfering with them in anyway? Alrighty then...

This one was a real blast! Wooot!

No offense, but I would say that your title of "curmugeon extrordianire" is well deserved.

Like many previous posts I find this one to be lacking in essential information needed to make a determination about that off which you speak. Like many previous posts, this also seems to me to be essentially an "if I ruled the world" kind of rant in the best curmugeon tradition.

My father used to write letters of this sort to the local newspaper almost daily, every 50th one or so would be printed!

.

Including here on the forums Hank? Have you noticed the heavy handed censoring that's been happening here lately?

I had to reread this whole thread a couple of times to make sure I was following it correctly. I've got to say that I think you are REALLY reaching on this. I might have given you a reasonable doubt on the question of LL moderation of the event suggesting an company's endorsement of the views. (Although I think its VERY possible, and I've seen it so in RL, that people and organizations CAN in fact moderate a discussions on topics without endorsing the viewpoints expressed. I'll simply say just because SOMETIMES things can be as black and white as IF 'X' THEN 'Y' its not ALWAYS the case that IF 'X' THEN 'Y'.) But you ask for the Lindens to explain their presence, and after they report that it was to prevent disruption (a perfectly reasonable and activity considering how some people in SL behave), you still claim something nefarious was afoot. I think you are working WAY to hard to find a reason to be torqued off about this Anti-Bush rally that you can justify on the ground of some fight against injustice. It seems, from the reasoning expressed in your posts, by virtue of the fact that LL allowed this rally to happen at ALL anywhere in SL, means they're endorsing the views expressed at the rally.

I'm sorry, that's just silly.
*Bonks Korg on the nose with his Zen Republican Shillelagh(tm)*

For the record not only am I a card carrying Republican, but a Bush supporter and a supporter of the war. And if it were somehow up to me personally, I'd let them have the rally too. And if I were responsible for the marginal maintenance of civil order in SL, your darn right I'd have someone at such a potentially emotionally charged event as this. Why? Because there are royal asshats on BOTH sides of this issue in SL and RL, who are so unable to conduct themselved in a civilized manner that only threat of Linden Smackdown may keep order. A sad fact, but there it is. Does that mean I endorse or support the views they may express? Hell no. Who said I HAVE to in order to support their meeting to voice their views? I'd expect the same thing if someone were holding a Pro-Bush rally too BTW.


I have simple rules about this sort of thing.

1) People should have a right to gather and express their political beliefs and opinions, regardless of whether I agree with them because such expression and disagreement is healthy if not manditory for maintaining a free society.

2) People should have a right to gather and express their disagreement and counter arguments with others who are expressing their opinions, as long as they don't disrupt them from expressing them by griefing or generally being obnoxious and griefing twerps.

3) The Powers That Be can smack the twerps with large sticks for being griefing twerps until the twerps pass out, run away or cease behaving like griefing twerps.