Protest Warriors Overwhelmingly Reject Operation Integrity

Hilter and ther Germans as tragic figures yet again, nice. The "bad" people will always have guns. The "good" people need to have guns. Weaponry has been a staple in society since the history fo man, so has war and death, neither are going anywhere, ever. As long as humans are on this planet there will be war and death.

As far as reverse racism and classism goes, I think his point is that minorities often have to enlist in order to get money for a decent education whereas the rich (usually white) kids don't have anything to lose or any repurcussions to deal with. It's less likely that a poor kid from Harlem would be protesting for the war when his own friends and family are probably being shipped off to it.



Siiiiiiiigh. He doesn't even know what fascism is. That should tell you something right there. And don't even get me started on "Saving souls" and cordoning off "Evil" (the Left) from "decent society."

How can you not feel elitist when you read this simple-minded manipulatory crap?

Lyrics from RATM's "Vietnow" are running full blast through my mind.

That is such bullshit. I grew up a poor black child *snicker* and I didn't have to sign my ass away to Uncle Sam to get an Education. I got a scholarship on the merits of my intelligence, novel thought, all the darkies are dummies. Most black people I know are anti-military because its just another form of slavery, you sign yourself over to the government and they can do with you as they please. No, thanks. But overall Black Americans are very patriotic inspite of the fact this country has screwed them over repeatedly. I know many people that enlist in the military because they want to serve their country and have no intentions of going to college. The military overall is viewed as a promising career to many African Americans. I can remember hearing when I was growing up "You can go to college or you can go in the military, but you will be doing something when you turn 18." I think this prevailing thought that minorities feel they have to go in the military to escape whatever is utter bullshit and passive racisim at its finest.

The reason a poor kid from a poor family wouldnt waste his time protesting is because he doesn't have the free time that his rich counter parts have. A poor kid in a bad neighborhood is dodging bullets and has bigger worries. The wars of white people (except the war on drugs) really don't effect him much since his lot in life is quite disconneted from the life a middle class suburban counter part. And money has proven to be the great equalizer, a suburban black child is more similar to a suburban white child than they are to an inner city black child.


Anyway I will leave the liberals to their racism cloaked as helping the poor minorities rantings. They never seem to end.

Judging by your proclivity to gravitate toward absolutes (one might say, "viewing things in black and white" ), I think it is possible you need racism to define your sense of place in the world and that's why you are twisting people's words around so that anyone who doesn't agree with you must be a racist. You are also passive aggressive and it would make it a lot easier to continue talking to you if you just called me a racist rather than snickering about it or alluding to it so that you can deny it later.

I didn't even mention intelligence, but you automatically assumed I was insulting the intelligence of "darkies." In fact, I did think about intelligence which is why I didn't talk in absolutes.

Here's a short story to illustrate the point I was making before: 10 poor black kids and 10 rich white kids go to the same school. 2 of the poor black kids get merit based scholarships and 2 of the rich white kids get merit based scholarships. The remaining 8 rich white kids can have mommy and daddy buy their education despite not working for it and being terrible students. The remaining 8 poor black kids... what do they do? Who do they turn to for money?

Just because you are smart enough to overcome economics does not mean that other people can. There are less than elite people in every race. It isn't a cut and dry issue of race. There happen to be more rich WASPS than minorities, so race does play a part because people like to keep power among their own, but economics reigns supreme- not race.

No because it is the poor kids who joined the military because a) they had few options or b) to get money for school who are over their dying so these snot-nosed brats can form a club and make money off of the war.


Good for the Army and the Navy. Maybe the Protest Warriors could work on funneling some of those people over to the Army and Marine recruiter.

http://www.ucsdguardian.org/cgi-bin/news?art=2005_05_12_06

http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/05/13/news/recruit.php

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7802712/


There are not scholarships for everyone, nor is anyone who doesn't qualify for an academic scholarship a "dummy".


Lovely. So "liberals" are racist. I like that comment.

Sorry, but I live in the reality-based world. You can call me a racist all you want. Although I don't see what you hope to accomplish by it. All liberals are racist.

I don't think you are a racist, you are just making racist comments without realizing they are racist. This might be a shock to some people but there are some black people who have lived most of their lives untouched by racism. I am one of those lucky few. Race does not determine my place in life, nor my outlook on it. I an individual and you are making passive racist comments yet again.



The black kids will work their asses off like eveyone else. Do you know what college costs these days? There are very few families that can shell out 20K a year for a kid to go to school so people go into debt and worth themselves to death. I worked 3 jobs in college and double majored and even though I had a college fund that could have paid for college it was withheld from me because my parents were assholes. So I was double fucked because I didnt qualify for income based scholarships and I had parents who didn't care how I paid for college. There are tons of kids like this. Education, especially higher education is not a right, it is a privilage, and that privilage costs a pretty penny, so you if you want it you work hard on it. Nothing worth having is free.


This is american, anyone can rise above thier social class and race if they want to. All it takes is will and drive. I refuse to believe otherwise so we can agree to disagree on that point.

Not all liberals, just most. You comments and soft bigotry are proof of my point.

I couldn't even write that if I tried.

What is soft bigotry? Did you just make that up?

For someone untouched by racism you sure have a knack for identifying it in the most ambiguous and accusatory ways. Look, you have turned a thread about Protest Warriors into a baseless discussion on "soft bigotry".

I wasn't the one calling people rich white boys, you did.

AND???

They are rich white boys. That is not a racist statement.

That would be like me accusing someone of soft bigotry because they say I am a filthy rich homosexual. That is not bigotry, it is a statement of fact.

But if they are white... and probably rich... what should s/he call them?

Or people saying I am un-fucking-believably gorgeous. I can't fault people for that. I am un-fucking-believably gorgeous.

Because in this thread /120/b1/47825/1.html calling someone Black Gril was wrong, but its ok to call someone white boy. Thank you for proving my points in both threads.

Calling her Black Girl in that context was lazy and stupid. I nver said it was factually incorrect or racist.

With these two guys, I first referenced their names (read the post you are posting in) and described their jobs. I pointed out one aspect of them to demonstrate their status in relation to their willingness to serve (or not serve) their country.

You really want to make this something don't you? Well, it won't work on me.

Ignore it. One of the new rhetorical tactics of the neo-cons is to accuse anybody who wants to help disadvantaged people of being a racist, on the grounds that they're making an assumption that disadvantaged people need help.

It's such a funhouse-mirror distortion of reality that it hardly bears rebuttal. But it especially appeals to the wealthy and selfish, as it excuses them from any moral obligation to pay their fair share of taxes or contribute to the public welfare in any way.

Just keep in mind, if it weren't for "hedonistic hippies" getting gassed, beaten, and even murdered for our freedoms in places like Selma, Kent State, and the '68 Democratic National Convention, we'd be living in a segregated police state under President-for-Life Wallace -- that is, assuming we hadn't all smothered to death by now under a blanket of smog in a deforested sea-to-shining-sea parking lot.

I was refering to those people who are so intolerant they do not believe Dissenters should be allowed to protest the war. Those who throw around the "traitor" label, even though they dont understand what treason is.

I am not discussing those who petition in favor of the war becuase they feel the reasons for the invasion were correct.

I beleive people of course have a right to be for the war. People also have the right to be against it. They also have the right to tell the other group they are wrong in their veiws.

They dont have the right to say that the other side can not petition.

period.

Sounds like were talking about different things though. I was refering more to the extremes then.

But those who dont agree with you on this point specifically are racist? You made an extremely similar point involving sexism against men in a previous thread.

It makes it hard to agree to disagree since when by disagreeing with you, an automatic derogartory label is cast.

I feel many can, just as youve said, rise above class. I dont feel theres a need to rise "above" race, since one race is as good as any other. But some races Are at a more disadvantage then others, this is what i interpreted you meant by rise above race, thats true also.

But .. I do not think "Anyone" can. In every society there are the ambitious and the talented and those who work very hard most of those suceed. There are those who have more trouble there are people who fail, there are people who do "average". Thats a fact.

Events and past oppression have made it so some races have more obsticles to overcome then others. Its not Racist to want those obsticles taken down or at least allieviated in some way.

Would need to point out it was the non violent protests of the civil rights movement that showed the "hedonistic hippies" (i.e. liberal counter culture and other anti war protestors) the power that standing up for beliefs against a system where many freedoms had been intstitutionally removed over time.

Not that the point isnt valid, just that the civil rights movement in many ways led to the anti war movement. And it of course was the civil rights movement that was responsible for laws against segregation; partly becuase it gained quite a bit of support amoung "liberals" (many of the same ones in the anti war movement, of course)

Yes. Of course, since before the birth of the nation, the civil rights movement has always been aided and abbetted by a few European-Americans of good conscience who put their bodies where their mouths were and marched alongside their brothers and sisters into eager throngs of brutal enforcers (whether they were wearing badges or bedsheets). It was informed as well by the examples of the sufferagettes, the 19th century labor movement and the writings of Thoreau.

The modern conservative tactic of disregarding that long and fruitful collaboration and trying to sow strife and dissention towards liberals among groups that we've fought alongside for centuries leaves an especially sour taste in the mouth. It's bound to backfire, and as they say.... paybacks are a bitch.

Very true. Sadly forgotten. It would have been very easy for those liberals you are speaking of to have merely kept quiet and gone on with their lives.

Instead there were such things as the underground rail road, and those who fought againt the Gag order in Congress.

And those liberals who helped get Lincoln elected .. despite southern threats to suceed from the US if they did so.

During the Civil rights movement was largerly the more liberal who sympathized with what Martin Luther King and the other activists were fighting for. Kennedy and Johnson were liberal leaning centrist presidents and they passed the Civil Rights legislation that was in response.

Desegregation has been one of the largest failures of all time. It helped push a policitcal agenda and detroy a community. It has completely backfired. So no, pats on the back for that bullshit.

I think people have every right to protest the war, and I support their right to do it. I don't however support them fucking up downtown traffic or otherwise costing tax payers money and harassing the average citizen.


The original reason I joined protest warriors was to offer a different voice, and to support the Soliders. It is not the choice of the soldiers fighting to be where they are, and when they see protesters, many of them feel they are personally being protested. I wouldn't want my cousins and friends to think that people don't appreciate what they are doing, so I counter protest. Everyone has their right to protest. I don't get all the hatred for protest warriors.

Yes, Northern Republican European Americans. Not the Party of Robert KKK Byrd, a party that is still practicing the same racism with a different spin. All you have to do is listen to the polical ads that play in the black community to understand how racist the democratic party is, just because they have a few black lap dogs that do their dirty bidding doesn't mean the party isn't racist, it just means they are cleaver.

How has it failed? We've got a long way to go, obviously, but surely you're not suggesting we'd be further along if we'd allowed segregation to continue unchallenged? Please explain. I want to understand your perspective on this.



There are no excuses for certain Southern Democrats, and no excuses for the people who allied with them for political expediency. But it's worth noting that many of the worst offenders have jumped ship and joined the Republicans, finding that "hands-off" states rights policies and conservative judicial appointees allow them to continue their bigotry with less challenge.

I live in an area with a large and increasing minority population, predominantly Black. I haven't seen any qualitative difference between political ads targeted at that audience from either side. But I haven't made a study of it, and maybe I'm missing something. Is there such a study that demonstrates a clear bias?