The Open Flame Is Open

Funny you should draw that conclusion datura because my example and what I talked about was specifically a heterosexual place.

Do you think a Singles Club should go in a PG sim? That is what I was talking about.

If the man bought the land and he isnt bothering anyone else then who the hell cares what he does on his land. (PG or Mature dosent come into it) If he wants to sit and talk to others thats his right. If you dont like it then fly around his land.



The rules state no harassment.
If someone does that kick thier ass out of the game.

This reminds me a lot of the recent 'flag incident'... I'm not saying that it's anything wrong, but why split yourselves up into a group in SL? I have a gay brother, and he hates being looked at as different. I simply don't understand why you actually WANT to be placed into another category in SL. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that hateful slurs will be directed at you day in, and day out... but when you announce this sort of thing, it raises the question if you asking for such a thing. =/

Mr. X says it better than i can...


Anyway, good luck.

Ama,
I didn't see it described as a singles club. I saw, "A place to hang out and gab." Again, it seems to me the sexuality of the place is being implied by others.

I still don't understand why moving this to a mature sim would solve the problem of backlash.

Question: Should I be able to chose a PG sim for my "club" meetings because I WANT to meet in a quite place withOUT the trappings of the seedier sims? Shouldn't I be able to shop for the type of sim I like? As long as I behave according to the requirements of that sim, and it fits the atmosphere and purposes I am working toward, it sounds like a perfect match, right?

By the way, if we are trying to avoid ANY potentially disturbing behavior in PG sims, perhaps there are too few Mature sims? Can we fix this by have more mature sims>

Personally, I feel it's a dangerous practice to segregate adult behavior because it might be offensive to some one. I REALLY believe that you need to set up SPECIFIC rules about exactly what will not be tolerated in a general area (they should NOT be called PG, by the way - this isn't accurate on any level) and stick to the rules in every case. If the specific rules are NOT being violated, then leave them be.

But, I did want to pose the above questions.

Let me get a few things right here. So let’s say I had started a coffee house for gay and lesbian folks to gather or a library or I don’t know a church. Would there be complaint about it being on a PG sim. I said it’s a club for Gay Men and Lesbians to have a place to chill and chat in SL. I am very offended at the thought that because we are gay some type of sexual activity will take place. Funny I have been to the amphitheater and route 66 several times and I don’t see heterosexuals romping and stomping in those locations. What went on at Bell’s was what went on at Bell’s. Everybody that went there went for that purpose. The people coming to my place won’t be there for sex. It is just a nice place to kick back like stage 4. Now unless the straight folk are having some late night swinger’s party at Stage 4 then I think we will be ok.
Xav dear I am very fond of you and hate to disagree but look for all you know people are going to your place when you are not on line and shagging, that can happen anywhere. The club is no build. It has a double wall system. Just in case the very tame artwork offends. There are no outside scripts. I took a lot of care with this plan. I also discussed it with my neighbor to make sure she did not mind. Let’s give it a chance before you condemn.
Let me ask you something that you might consider. The city that I live in has a beautiful bookstore owned and operate by and for lesbians. Now it’s in a residential neighborhood. If we were to follow the example some of you suggest here. That store should be closed now it does not sell porn. It is a nice place, but there have been protest. Being that it is where it is and children might see the protest and here vulgar statements the store should be closed.
Look gang it’s just a little club. Yes it is set aside for Gay and Lesbian citizens but everyone is welcome. I am not charging anything for people to enjoy themselves there is nothing for sale. It’s just a nice place. Let’s let it be just that.
By the way for those who asked it’s in Welch right by the Lonely Island. Look for the Tiki Torches and you cannot miss it.

Oh man you just opened the big can. I relish in my difference sir. I am a Lesbian. It is not what I do in bed. It is my life. I work in the gay community my friends are gay, I have gay siblings. I volunteer for gay causes. It is what I breathe. I am very proud of what I am. Since you don’t know me and have not seen me in action when others like you have started spouting the “why don’t you stay in the closet routine. I will give you the benefit of the doubt in your ignorance. Gay men and lesbians help build this country just like you. We have fought in your wars, educated your children and cared for you when you were ill. We are your brothers sisters and children.

When I speak of my wife and speak with pride. When I think of what she means to me our bed is not the first thing that comes to mind. I think of the woman who stood by my side and held me up at my grandmothers funeral, so that I would not fall. I think of the woman who has been beside me for three surgeries in 2 years to care for me when I could not walk. I think of the girl who rides beside me in the car on Sunday drives. (Oh my god they sound just like us let me take a shower)
When I speak of my community I don’t think of seedy bars and back rooms. I see the young men and women who marched and fought for a cause. I see sad young men who died. I also see a cold callus nation that let them die. There were those like you then who said (just stay in your closet).

Finally sir. How dare you compare a gathering place for Gays and Lesbians to that awful flag? I am from the south. My family fought in that war. I am both a Daughter Of The American Revolution and a Daughter Of The Confederacy/ I say the later in shame. That flag represents hate and oppression. It’s represents lynching beatings and God-awful things you don’t want to imagine. How dare you compare our club to that wretch of a cloth.
This is my last word on the subject. Unless the Lindens tell me to take it down it stays. I do not sway easy. I will end with words much more profound than mine could ever be.

I, Too, Sing America
Langston Hughes

I, too, sing America.

I am the darker brother.
They send me to eat in the kitchen
When company comes,
But I laugh,
And eat well,
And grow strong.

Tomorrow,
I'll be at the table
When company comes.
Nobody'll dare
Say to me,
"Eat in the kitchen,"
Then.

Besides,
They'll see how beautiful I am
And be ashamed--

I, too, am America.

=/

I was hoping you wouldn't jump to these conclusions... because I really don't have a problem with it. I've gotta refer back to my quote...



I didn't compare your flaming hangout to the flag... I compared the effects of the flag to the effects of the flaming hangout.

Timothy,
I think you are, in fact, comparing the two. you're comparing the effects of one to the effects of the other. So you're saying they have something in common: They both cause a controversy. You may not be saying they cause one for the same reason, but you're still making a comparison. The reasons for you to make such a comparison is where you can clarify things, but, again, if you leave things to interpretation, someone will misinterpret it.

Sorry, I'll try to be more clear next time ; )

hey thai, i saw the post about the violent acts and i thgink they will be taken against you also, i dont look down on you for your preferences or anyone elses, lemme know if you need security and the Second Life Marine Corps will assist you
D.F.

Hey Deanah!!! I enjoyed our recent cat-and-mouse game in the Outlands! >:D

Now... Thai... can you please give me the exact coordinates of your club? I could not find it yesterday.

...Hell, just log in and send me the landmark if you want!

Ok all you weary travelers here or the coordinates to the club. It is Welsh 61,126. Drop in any time I am planning a party soon.

I was thinkin about starting my own club too... I think it will be my little strait club? sound like a good name? we can have em next door to each other. we can hang out and be gay and strait people....

Sounds corny huh? now you understand the criticism from people? Not that I have a problem with your actions realy, Im sure you are cool, I have met you SL side and I liked ya... but do we realy need to hear you say it over and over again? Seems kinda weird to have a video game with gay clubs... mabye its just me but you dont hear me announcin stuff like "Dude Im Strait" everywhere I go? and I dont make clubs or have events based on it, and if I did, don you think that would be a little wierd? ... I am just strait and I dont need people to hear me say it over and over again to accept me as strait... So why do you?

Actually, the criticism thus far has not been that the club exists, but that it exists in a PG sim and that any negative attention directed towards it would be something that underage people should not see.



Weirder than having strip clubs? How come? Because they're gay?




I'm not sure that's a fair thing to say. Given the topic of the thread, you'd expect to hear it a lot. But simply having a club for people who share something in common. And I haven't seen anything to suggest you HAVE to be gay or lesbian or whatever to hang out there. It wasn't even described as a place to pick people up, but as a place to sit and chat. If this bothers you, don't go. If you accept it, then why think about it? If this place interests you, go ahead and visit it. My point is simply that it's not that big a deal. Different people choose to express themselves in different ways.

How come I'm always arguing on this thread?

It's more interesting than the outlands threads?

Good luck on your club, Thai.

You know Datura, you may have a clean and easy to see point.
I acctualy do not have a "problem" at all with Thia's club, I have always just wondered WHY people feel it necesary to label themselfs further than human/people. Be that black people or white people, Smart people or Dumb people, American people or Chines people.. I mean realy what is the diffrence why cant we just all be people?
That is my point I was trying to make. and mabey I am makin it in the wrong discussion?? who knows.. just felt like I had to write.. so I did.
And yes your right again Datura.. no wierder than a strip club. I suppose if you realy want to break it down, you could say why a sci-fi club or why a dance club. So your point is well.. and I do me well... taken. I was just putin a thought out on the choppin block.
Realy Thai I wish you the best of luck with your club. And I do hope you dont see this as a gesture of "hate". I dont have a problem with you.. just currious.

Thai, you should make you club wherever you like. You are a long time participant in SL, and someone I feel fortunate to have conversed with on several occassions and you have every right to enjoy the benefits of Second Life along with everyone else and should that be making a club for individuals with a common ground, more power to you! I support you!

This is no different than any of the other themed communities which are encouraged in SL. One thing I have learned in my time in this service is that what makes it so incredibly rich and unique is it's overwhelming diversity, which should be appreciated by all. The community standars that the Lindens have enforced are in place due to individuals who with to play on the extreme end of the spectrum at the expense of the rest of the community.

There should be no question of whether it should be permitted on a PG sim, of course it should, you yourself have already stated your intentions and they are clearly within the PG limits.

The people demanding you move it to a Mature Sim must forget that gay people are also people, with interests far beyond anything sexual.

I applaude your efforts and know you are a valuable asset to the SL community. Let me know if I can help Thai!

Phaylen

what's the big deal with this new club? i find it sad that thai has to put up security over around a place where he just wanted some people to hang out and be themselves... maybe i will stop by and see what all the hoopla is all about.

There really isn't a big deal... it's... well... here, i think a visual aid is best in this situation ; )



I, personally, think that this is the biggest intention of the club. Anyone got a spoon?

IMHO, that is.

There's no hoopla. There's no worms. Everytime I've dropped by to see if anyone was home the place was empty.

Hey Thai, when's the party?

Oh yea, to further support this venture and its clientele, I've made some tee shirts and put them in my shop in Minna. There is also a "Straight But Not Narrow" for supporters.
Look on the top level if interested.