Boycott All Telehub Flea Markets

Hrmmm, shop owners can control the rezzing of walls, in order to deliberately trap a person inside? Why wasn't I told about this?

Agreed, let's ban shop builders, how dare they lure us in like that?

While we're at it, what about those evil private sim owners who put walls near their telehub spot? They must be all evil! Ban private sim ownership!

I have in my inventory a jetpack that lets me fly much faster than the terrain around me rezzes, sometimes I get stuck flying through a tall building. Boycott all builds over 10m!

</sarcasm>


Equating an annoying side effect of SL download speeds to deliberate predatory business practice is a stretch of the imagination at the very least. At the very least, it's prejudicial to all legit/ethical business owners; at the worst, it desensitises the public to boycotting efforts that are for valid reasons.

Can we boycott drama on the forums?


- Newfie

I second everything this guy said

They know full well the effect of walling in a telehub. That's why they do it.

Wether they intend to wall you in or if it's just a delightful coincidence for shop keepers, it's still a big hit for P2P teleporting. Fact is, as it stands people are getting stuck every single day. It slows you down. It's annoying. It stinks.

There's no good reason for a person to get stuck in some building while trying to get to an event. People should just be able to go there. Nuff said. So enough flea ridden shop defending, and give the people what they want.

I'm all for point-to-point teleporting. It just makes sense. Quicker and easier. It doesn't stop anyone from exploring and makes almost all land of equal value in terms of businesses. For those worried about the exploring aspect, who sees much when flying at top speed at 200m up anyway? The best way to explore SL is to pick a spot, tp there, and start walking. Yes..I said walking...

Telehubs have just become junky looking, claustrophobic, gaudy and a hassle in many spots on the mainland.

Who's this famous 'they', and what evidence do you base this on? Or is this just a personal opinion based on some conspiracy theory you made up?



I note the key word in your sentence - coincidence. Please do not confuse coincidence with proof. The plain facts is that no matter what's built next to a telehub, if it includes walls people are likely to get stuck in it. In addition, location near a telehub is very economically attractive (I should know, I own a few shops myself near some), which will naturally mean the likelihood of getting stuck in a shop is high. But then again, that's just a coincidence, not proof of some conspiracy.



Agreed on the travelling part. However, using just connotation-weighed phrases as 'flea ridden' only display your emotion bias, rather than basing your opinion on rational thought. Perhaps we can boycott conspiracies too?


- Newfie

I agree.

When I found out (first ten minutes of first day practically), that you cant fly level, but slowly drop down through the ground clutter as you go, I figured out almost the same solution.

Straight up to the 250 metre limit, and then straight across, holding down the "pg-up" key to maintain the top altitude.
Aim for the big red tube, no problem. I dont even wait to res.

IMO the only real problems are:
- roofs on telehubs (absolutely insane!)
- the odd idiot who builds his tower (funny how its alwasy a guy), right up to the 250 metre level.
- skyboxes below 250 metre level.

'Boycott all telehub flea markets' is too broad a term for me to agree with.

When I see a build that's far too difficult to navigate, or particles spewing everywhere to get my attention, then I will avoid that merchant. If they have to rely on those tactics to sell their wares, it leaves me with doubts about the quality of their wares. (Also a generalization, but that's been my experience.)

I've seen some telehub shops that were very well built, very well textured, and very non-intrusive. Juro and Cyrus did a spectacular job on The Collection at Garrison, and I would think so even if I didn't choose to have a shop there. The mall beside their parcel (futuristic looking white complex with a mezzanine, to the right of The Collection when facing it) is also very, very well done. It wasn't finished when I went over to explore, but I was very impressed with what I saw.

If you want to boycott, boycott the extremely intrusive shops only. Don't punish considerate builders and talented creators just because they chose a high-traffic parcel to build on.

It would be more than just time wasting if we all voiced our like opinions on the matter.

Sadly, our opinions are not all alike. This issue is extremely controversial, and just about any one of the 15+ threads started on the subject display a broad spectrum of ideas.

Not to mention, many of the reasons given for dramatically changing our world by getting rid of telehubs are based upon the state of SL technology in regards to lag, rezzing, and physics as it exists today. Which, as Cory discussed in the townhall here, is on the roadmap for being significantly improved in 2.0. Making a far-reaching change without considering what the future holds, seems rather short-sighted to me.

I think we can agree that we're both hoping Linden is reading, although for different reasons.

Lil History: They used to have point to point teleporting. It cost you L$ based on how far away you were going.

I was a poor newb at the time, and wanted to waste my money on prim rezzing and taxes.. so I very rarely used to T-Port anywhere - I'd fly... The world was MUCH MUCH smaller - so flying wasn't that big an inconveniece.

Then came telehubs... free tporting, only to a generalized location, and the 'pay to tport' was thown out the window..

Which has *ALWAYS* had me wondering 'why?'

I understand the concepts behind the hubs -- the desired effect is whats happening now (business congregating around them to become commercial areas)..

What I never saw was why it was a 'one or the other' issue.. the two concepts aren't mutually exclusive.. Free teleport to an area then fly to your destination OR pay to port there directly... These two ideas don't cancel each other out... they kinda compliment each other...


I didn't understand it then, I don't understand it now.

Siggy.

Dude, thats just capitalism. Now back to your regularly scheduled corporate dominated life

Yes, there are TONS of shoppers near telehubs. Thats why the land is so valuable.

I'm curious. Seeing as the server already knows the wall is there, and thus you can't fly though it even if it hasn't rezzed for you yet, how is this trick being pulled off?

Now, when you cross a sim boundary, this can happen, if you are placed in the other sim behind the wall that abbuts it. But, otherwise... I don't get it.

Me neither. I'm always getting stopped by walls I can't see yet.

coco

To me, this is not so much a problem of the store, as it is a problem with the way second life decides to rez things. I can often see stores and buildings far away from my avatar quite a while before the objects close up finally rez, and the stores and buildings I could see just a bit ago are now hidden.

Had Second Life rezed things close to my avatar first, it could then realize that it did not *have* to rez the stuff further away. In other words, it wasted time rezing things that I could not see, anyway, making a long process even longer.

I think that the Second Life Engineers need to take a long hard look at the order in which things get rezzed. It makes no sense to rez things inside buildings before the outside is done, since, once the outside is done, I can't see the stuff inside. Same problem with rezing things further away first.

Items should be rezzed in this order:
1. Close items inside camera range.
2. Close items outside camera range.
3. Further away items inside camera range.
4. Further away items outside camera range.

The order of 2 and 3 is debateable, but it makes no sense to rez things further away before things up close.

Stores have walls. SL doesn't rez walls very quickly sometimes. This means that if you fly too quickly, you *might* get stuck -- regardless of where they are. Why do you think this has anything to do with telehubs, malls, or shops? It's simply the result of streaming content. No conspiracy.

I agree completely, Siggy. Assuming something needs to change from the way we have it today, I'd rather see some sort of compromise, rather than swinging the pendulum completely into the opposite direction.

Pay to P2P could very well coexist with Telehubs, without significantly changing their effect on commerce.

Francis & Rathe's project could be considered something very similar to Pay to P2P as well.

Personally, I'd like to see what would happen if we had no TP at all. Just as an experiment. It sure would give us a better sense of geography. With direct "p2p" teleports, what's the point of having a map at all? Geography is irrelevant.

Could be cool - and good for vehicle biz -- BUT (and thats a big BUT, a 32 story BUT with a spectacular penthouse and panoramic views) -- They'd need to fix the sim border crapola first... not just 'make it better', make it go bye bye.

Siggy.

You misunderstand -- and I'm sorry that you dismissed this as a shallow money grab. I don't see vehicles as a viable means to travel across the world, even if sim borders didn't have problems. Vehicles are for pleasure only, and always will be.

I suggested this because I'd just like to see how it affects SL society in general. As it is, geography means almost nothing. We teleport and fly for about 30 seconds at most and we're at our destination, and we don't need to know where we are on the map. What would it be like if we had to fly everywhere? Would we see larger, multi-sim communities springing up within easy flying range, like small towns? It's something I'd really like to see.

uh island sim people would be trapped?

Yes! Trap them! It serves them right for abandoning the People!

Okay, maybe allow TP between the mainland and island sims.

You mean there are builds near telehubs?

Heh. I rarely even see a telehub. If I use a hub at all, I arrive in bare landscape and have left the sim before I saw a single prim

yeah but boycotting stores who do things like this and alerting people to avoid it is also part of capitalism.

We've tried this several times, Cubey. Just before/after every update.