Robin's Comments on Teluhubs, p2p tp, compensation for people near telehubs

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So, a few questions I will extract from Robin's comments, to spur some discussion:

ASSUMING: Telehubs are going bye-bye in some way, shape, or form.

1. How do we preserve telehub areas as "community centers"?
2. How should people hurt by telehub reform be compensated after a change?
3. How could a point to point teleport system be implemented to also accomodate these goals?

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My personal thought is that ultimately it's the search engine that will solve the problems. I'm working on one, a couple other groups are working on different designs. Because of the gamut of problems with self-governance, community zoning is a nightmare. However, with a search engine, types of land will naturally wind up clustering together.

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I also believe that regardless of the solution, we need to plan for a major shift around in organization in SL lands.

EDIT: Another thought - are telehubs really the "community centers" as Robin states? I'm not so sure. Most telehubs I see are surrounded by casino-tringo-mall-clubs. I personally don't feel like they're overdue for some creativity in their marketing other than "OMG I MUST GRAB ALL TELEHUB LAND!!!!!111oneoneone".

I"m hoping that in the next revision we still have telehubs, but people will be less hasty to make telehubs into instant shitholes that people would pay good money to avoid. They do not deserve any special compensation.

Why would telehubs go bye bye?

Why is it either/or -- why are they mutally exclusive?

I did stupulate "in some way, shape, or form".

My suggestion is to allow landowners to set telehubs on their land accessable via Land listing.

Doesn't really answer my question though....

Nearly every suggestion on more ways to teleport has assumed that the current teleport system (telehubs) would change/move/be called fred...

I'm asking 'why'?

Just as when they added the telehub system over p2p teleporting I asked 'why'

I guess the "why" is based on the assumption that telehub is a subset of point to point teleporting. Yes, you can have telehubs, but there's no distinguishing method of use or result that differs from p2p tping.

Ilove) telehubs as I often get another ava standing on my head or I put my sharp heels in some ones head.-)))))

I also ”love the places” as I am often on my way as long as possible from them and on the way I get stucked into a huge building close to them that havent rezed completely-... taking some minutes to try to get out of them..


I am of course joking-.. Most of them are... (censured)

What about one-way teleports set up by the land owner ? Kinda like HTTP links from one website to another...

That's from the other thread, yes? An idea I support as well.

Avoiding telehubs is, for me like most of you, a Good Thing™. Well mostly. I must admit I occasionally find a nice shop as I navigate away from the telehub, but it's increasingly rare, I'm flying higher, faster sooner to avoid the malls, being trod on etc. There are some places I go where I deliberately dogleg around sim-wide malls on a regular basis in fact, it's just faster to fly those extra metres.

I appreciate that other people paid premium rates for telehub land, and actually to some extent I prefer shops reasonably close to a telehub, so there is an added value I guess, although for the right shops I'll fly hundreds of metres, kilometres even to get there, and if I'm searching for something specific I use find and damn the travel distance.

I don't think I've *ever* seen a telehub used really as a community point, it's one of the few places in SL where people don't say hello to everyone in fact, in my experience. I've seen chats around them occasionally and people taking pity on n00bs occasionally, but not more than that.

There is a possible intermediate step between full p2p and all telehubs. How about a home location (of your choice) per group. It lets the gun bunnies have a group that sets their home to somewhere in Jessie and reincarnate there, then pack up and go home to somewhere else. It would let shop owners tp quickly between a shop and a home. It would let the rest of us have up to 15/16 (one for no group too maybe) 'homes' that we could choose between, and maybe the teleport home option has a sub menu so we can choose which 'home' to visit.

I don't know anyone who hangs out at telehubs (excluding the WA and various islands) -- but I am unwilling to do away with them; there is still some charm in flying to your destination, especially if you're new to SL.

Either way, I'm all for having both worlds -- I like the suggestion of a fee for point-to-point teleporting. Besides, I would take anything LL says in a Hotline statement with a grain of salt: LL is a business, constrained by legal issues -- it is necessary to make diplomatic statements, for their protection.

*

Second Life is moving in the direction of having strictly user-created content. Linden-created content seems to be dwindling rapidly. Was not the current WA created by a user? How about this new Developer Directory? How about the Employment Center?

So: telehub land will probably stay the same as it always has -- with user-created content surrounding it. I don't really see how LL is obligated to pay these people who bid for telehub prime land; the people who bought it were not promised anything in particular.

I wouldn't be surprised if, in the near future, they proposed a contest for users to make a nice new telehub building.

I personally found land less than 200m2 from a telehub because it's a drag for me to fly a long time to get to a certain place. While it influenced my decision on whether to buy the land, the proximity to the hub should not affect my sales if point-to-point teleporting was implemented, nor should I be reimbursed -- land sales are, unless you bought your land at an auction, a person-to-person transfer, and therefore different each time.

You win the 'I get it' blue ribbon to proudly display on your monitor!

Eh ... in the same sense, the new player could just as easily explore on their own.


This is one thing I've become more and more against.

Imagine someone charging you 1/4 cent for every web address you typed into Mozilla / IE or every hyperlink you clicked? It'd add up quickly, wouldn't it?

There are better ideas for money sinks, and a fee for teleporting only serves as an alternative to raising use fees. LL has marketed SL as a 1-time fee of $10... I don't think hindering travel. (Even if it's one means of travel.) follows that mindset.


No, generally when they can't say, they will say they can't say, or they don't at all. "Good idea" aside, I know for a fact that this is a hot topic at Linden Lab - it was a major point of discussion at the LL Invasion in July at the uh ... social ... establishment ... afterward.



Wait, you lost me. The Telehubs are Linden Created. If what you say is true (which I'd agree) that Linden created content is dwindling, wouldn't that indicate that telehubs are more in jeopardy, not less?

I think what Lo is getting at is that the current Telehub system would remain unchanged... and a NEW OPTIONAL service (though not really new - we had it before and they junked it for telehubs.. this is the either or mentality I mentioned) is put in for Point 2 Point teleporting..

I click on a LM/Map/click rubie slippers - however the hell they do it..... I go there... from where I am to where I wanna be...

OR If I don't feel like that convenience.. I get taken to the closest telehub... my choice.

One is a bus ride
One is a taxi ride

Siggy.

Sure... but by "system" we also mean "the system of putting new telehubs in place".

So old telehubs would stay as a transition, I'd assume and agree, but new land would not have any? (remember, we're growing 20% per month? that's 4 months to double the population / land and essentially make the telehub system a thing of the past)

It's a shame some people have bought land around telehubs because people are sadly forced to go there to get anywhere else.

The fact of the matter is SL is wrong at the moment, and it needs to change to P2P. Whenever that happens, it's going to put these people's noses out of joint. Might as well do it sooner rather than later cause telehubs only is annoying a lot of people.

How about compensation for people that were forced to move out of areas when the telehub nearby got so overcrowded and laggy that it effected their land 2 sims away?

Can we get compensated for having to sell to a landbaron for less than half of what we paid for it to get out from under all the god-aweful lag caused by the hub?

Just wondering.

-Ghoti

A gradual migration away from the current system over a period of several months could be a good strategy for LL to pursue.
Taking some ideas from their residents, they could start by allowing us P2P teleport to places that we own, then also places in our picks, then for all landmarks, and finally all teleports would be made P2P.
My thesis is that one should not artificially create places of interest. Places that have any inherent interest will naturally become more populated.

Point to point is never went away, Liaisons use it, Live Help can use it, an offered teleport is simply a filtered P2P.

I think the only real question is if they wanna piss off numba one customa

I don't see why people would need to be compensated for telehubs closing? How is it different from rl where you buy a building for your store near the mall and then the mall closes or moves across town? In that situation would the mall or town or anyone pay you for your loss of business? Nope. You should have leveraged your increased traffic while the mall was there so people are still coming back now...

Anyhow... I agree that P2P is much more appealing to me as a user. I'm really sick of getting stuck in skyscrapers as I fly to my destination. And getting ejected from land. And those annoying instances where the sim in between the telehub and your destination is down and you fly forever and are still in the same place.

I'd think for a newbie it would be easier to just land wherever you wanted to go. I still have trouble getting around. LOL

With all that said - why not do it this way: Keep the telehubs as is. Then as a LANDOWNER, if I want P2P transport for my land *I* pay for that option? Seems that will serve as a money sink and preserve the needs for telehubs. Comments?

I'd love a RANDOM TELEPORT function too. Two buttons on the map: "Random Teleport - PG" and "Random Teleport - M". Pick a sim and coordinates at random and drop me!

I like the idea of point to point teleport for L$, but also allow land owners to specify to NOT allow P2P on a given plot of land. Privacy concerns are very legitimate... its hard enough to get any work done with not privacy modes and a constant barrage of IMs!

-Flip

No good really, this would result in a hotch potch of people turning on P2P, and not. So SL would become a patchwork quilt of those areas you can go to, and those you can't.

We need easy, quick, free, complete P2P. Except for people being able to turn off P2P on their land if they want to do something private in there etc. Pretty much exactly what we have now, access lists (allow only these, restrict only these) except the access lists need to apply to P2P.

Charging to let people P2P onto your land will result in a nasty P2P patchwork quilt which is worse than what we have now.

I do agree with this.


What I'm wondering is, why not leave the telehubs, and a person can only do P2P if they have a landmark to that particular location.

For instance: I look up a shop in find. I TP to the Telehub, fly to the shop. I love the shop! I create a landmark. Now *next time* I want to visit, I can just use my landmark and teleport straight there!

It creates a use for both, and with the telehubs still there, I won't have to collect landmarks for every place I visit.

WHY are people deliberately going for the most complicated, ugly solutions in the face of the best possible solution???

IDEA: Let's go where we want, when we want. I like that. That works for me. And for a lot of others. Just do it.

Experience shows the best ideas are often the simplest, easiest, most user friendly ones. Why say no to P2P in favour of a growing library of bookmarks, where if you lose one, you can't go somewhere again, unless you fly there.

People will start selling bookmark collections for $500L or so then. They'll be like "Go anywhere, with this collection of bookmarks, you have a bookmark to the x most popular spots in SL". Why create a rotten trade in boring bookmarks, and implement a leaky patchwork solution.

It's so easy to get it right, just do P2P.

Increased prim allotment on telehub land is and idea worth exploring. P2P as an option for landowners combined with telehub city sims has potential to facilitate transport as well as encourage the conglomeration of commercial activity around the telehub.

How has the experiment with city sims played out to date? They clearly are considered highly valuable with their extremely high property value. Is it likely that this type of sim would maintain itself as a city/commercial area without Linden enforcement? Does increased prim allotment present an incentive to self zone commercial?