Speak Fucking English!

Ok, if you live in the united states of america, SPEAK ENGLISH GODDAMNIT im SICK of all these south americans and puerto ricans coming up here and refusing to learn how to speak ENGLISH in public. When the United states declared its independence... do you know what the Decleration of independence was written in, it was ENGLISH! FUCKINg, ENGLISH OK??

Yeah, Americans. Speak English. Like, all of you.

None of you know how to do it properly. AND you give us Brits a hard time over the way we talk - obviously because you're jealous that we can do it properly and you can't. Why am I the one who has to explain myself over and over just for using real English words just because you Americans have bastardized our language so much you don't recognise the mother tongue any more when spoken correctly?

Disclaimer: I never claimed that any of the above was in English.

Shouldn't that have an s in it?

Correct me if im wrong but the europeans re created the english language after abandoning it in mass for french because french was cool. They then had to go to the pesants for the information on the language hence the BS spelling, silent letters, etc...

That aside: As I understand it from some of my brittish friends you dont always understand each other so well either. Your banter dosn't follow, the terms used become so convoluted they cant be followed.

No one speaks the original english language any more, it died in the 1300's. However I would like to further the sentiment of the thread...

If I moved to japan or mexico/spain or germany I would god damned be expected to learn the language. I there damn well expect people moving into this country to do the same.

How long before there is only one language? The seperate languages are due to people being in different places, the world is growing smaller.

International pilots are all required to speak in English. A great many people around the world study English in school.

You think there will ever be a time when all humans speak the same language?

Que?

Donde esta la biblioteca?

You might want want to start by spelling your own language correctly before spouting off about other people.

I am from Venezuela, the one in South America in case your geography is poor as well. I came to the US when I was 12 years old, and did not speak very much English at the time - I had a years worth in school, but English is an extremely difficult language to learn if you do not learn it from birth, and year of class teaching certainly does not prepare you for it. I worked very hard to learn English - by mid high school I spoke it flawlessly, mostly by reading and watching as much television and movies as I could to learn English as it is really used. It is far easier for young people to learn a new language than adults - for some adults it is nearly impossible to retrain their thinking.

15 years later, I speak English better than most native speakers, along with French and Spanish. I learned English to be part of life here, though honestly I did not have to. You can exist quite comfortably in Miami without speaking English, and there is no other city in the world I would rather live in. I did so because of a love of language, and for my education. Learning English was important to me not because I wanted to appease some xenophobic American who is also too lazy to get off their ass and learn another language to expand their horizons, but because it was important to me.

Two years ago, my family fled Venezuela when the political situation there became violent and unstable. My mother and sister both now live in Miami. My sister already spoke English fairly well, so for her the adjustment was easy. However, my mother spoke no English, so it has been a terrible struggle for her. My 54 year old mother tries very hard to learn English, but has difficulty with it. She would not be able to communicate very well with you. Would you have the guts to stand in front of my mother and blast her for not speaking English? I somehow doubt it.

You have no idea what an individual's circumstances are. Moving to another country is a terrifying, life altering thing in and of itself. Most people are worried about having a roof over their heads and being able to feed their families, they aren't worried that having a voting ballot or sign in Spanish irritates you. Many times, there is not enough time in the day after working two or three jobs to support your family to spend time worrying about studying an Ingles en 10 minutos al dia book. The best they can hope for is having their children educated in English, because for them it is a struggle.

Granted, there are places where it does become comfortable for immigrants to not learn English (Florida, Texas, California and NY/NJ), and I do think it is ultimately to their detriment to not fully learn English, but it is their choice. The people and culture that is most familiar to us is the most comfortable, and often times they gravitate towards that because of needing a sense of community.

White Americans are hardly the most welcoming of differences in people, as your history shows. It is no wonder that immigrants are not in any great hurry to learn English so that they can still be treated as second class citizens.

Also, look back in your own family history - most people have a grandparent or some other relative who was never able to learn to speak English when they emigrated to the US. I have a friend whose grandmother is Russian, and at 99 years old, has no great incentive to learn English. She lives very comfortably in Miami Beach and will die never learning English. I will be certain to put you two in touch so you can yell at her too, not that she will understand you.

Try living in a place that has extensive cultural diversity and tolerance, it would do you a world of good. The US is a mixture of all of these cultures, and although English is the predominant language, it is not the only one spoken here. What are you going to do when Hispanics are 50% of the population?

Cristiano

Edit - two other things occured to me. Puerto Ricans are already American citizens, they have just as many rights as you do without having to learn English. Also, the Declaration of Independence was written in English because it was a declaration to England, not because English is the official language of the US. Would not have made a lot of sense to write it en Francais.

Pilots are required to speak English out of necessity and the economic clout of the American airline industry. In this circumstance, it makes sense.

The idea however of having English become the only language spoken in the world is a sad one. There are so many beautiful languages, far more beautiful than English, which is an odd bastardization of German, Latin, and pieces from just about every other language. Comparatively, English speakers are a minority in the world, no matter what Americans tend to think. Just ask the Chinese

I would have to say yes Loki...unfortuantely though.

Anyhow english is just a bastard mutt of latinate and germanic languages....and besides russian or perhaps asian languages is considered the hardest to learn mostly due to all too subtle deviations of the form and an almost incomprehensible syntax. Still it is the business language of the world. Probably because it allows for vagueness and multiple interpretations of the same word which can be of great use in business (look at the various interpretations of our government documents).

As for learning the language of the country that you choose to reside in...Yes, Please do! And another thing...when people are in mixed company it is rude to speak a language amongst yourselves that every cannot understand. I am not a paranoid person by nature but when I go to the market and the clerks are speaking amongst themselves in their native tongue...I wonder what the hell they are talking about.

On the other side of the bank note...their children do benifit from being in a multi-lingual environment.

We have this quaint little program over here called University Challenge which I just happened to watch for 5 minutes last night. Anyway, one round of questions was about an international phonetic written language which was basically pronounced as English is but had a whole host of weird and wonderful symbols making up the words. The contestants had to read out what each sentance said and, suprising even myself, it was actually pretty easy to read once you got into the mind set. That is all

Damn, Cris..ya beat me to my point hehe

There is no language more beautiful than English. There are languages that have smoother sounds, but nothing comes close to the incredible power and variety of English.

Whereas romance languages are flowy and usually somewhat rounded-off and softened, as with woodwinds, English is like an entire orchestra synchronized to the beat of drums. With Eastern languages, you have a range from tight, curvilinear Chinese syllables to the simultaneously efficient and Byzantine structure of Japanese to various hodgepodges that seem to stumble over themselves. All of these languages are beautiful in their own right, but English has way more words than any of them - and with more words come more variety of expression.

The Germanic flavor of the language gives English a distinct and powerful flow, yet it is also posessed of a huge number of softer cognates that it imported from old Latin via its ties with France. So again, the English language affords an incredible expressive range.

I speak esperanto like a native....

Siggy

Did you know that the Texas constitution actually not only recognizes Spanish as Texas' main language, but puts it ABOVE English in terms of priorities?

It's a hold-over from when Texas was just joining the Union.

This is a topic that bothers me, as well. In the part of the country that I live there are a great many non-english speaking folks. I do not have a problem with the older folks... I can understand that its hard to learn a new language when yoiu have spoken one for so many years.

However, that being said, it does bother me when the younger folks, the ones that are really going to be a part of society, don't even attempt to learn it, and then... they give ME a problem for not understanding them!

This is not, in any way, a racist remark. I just think that if you want to live in a country other than your birth country you should do your best to work WITH the new society, not AGAINST it. If you want to speak your native tongue among your peers, go for it, I LOVE listenning to it, however..

Don't expect a shop-keeper or otherwise to understand you if you don't speak english.

Just my 2cents.

Try: Because the french invaded england in 1066 and made speaking english as much Not Ok(TM) as they could.

The english that existed pre-hastings was much more germanic than what we have now... I'm slowly learning it as part of my college studies. It's... different.

Then came the various (four major) dialects of middle english, which are recognizable as english but hard to read without training (Chaucer, the Perl Poet, etc)...

We basicly had to rebuild our language... Most of the older germanic stuff, and the stuff thats fairly true to its latin roots, doesnt have the messy spelling... Or, at least, messy by my standards I suppose, I don't consider germantic languages as messily spelled as some do. Its the stuff we kept from teh french, and picked up along the way from gaelic (Whoever first decided how to transcribe the gaelic languages to the latin alphabet needs to be dragged out into the street and flogged bloody. I mean, really...), norwegian, etc, that introduced alot of the funky spellings. Not all, no, but the majority of it.

English isn't a very logical language. In fact, it's a mutt betweeen anglo-saxon dialects and French (sorry Chris, it's not as white as you think it is).

Personally, I'd much rather we all just speak Spanish. Me gusta espanol mas.

ooh! a language forum! yummy!

ok, first of all, to the original topic.. i understand what you mean Cyanide. it is, admittedly, frustrating when you are trying to converse with someone who doesn't speak the language you know. ..and yes, this goes for anyone from anywhere.
..i do believe that one should try to learn the language of a country if you're moving there.. and would be great to learn even if just visiting. sometimes it just doesn't work that way.. for older people, it's just infuriatingly hard to do.. for younger people though, an effort should be made. no matter what the country is.
..i would expect it of myself if i moved elsewhere. but there are those who are, thank goodness, tolerant and patient.

example: i used to be a cab driver.. there were times when i had Spanish-speaking passengers who either barely spoke a word of English, or very broken and heavy-accented. frustrating? yes. do i wish they could've spoken English well? of course. but what did i do? i started asking how to say specific words that would help bridge the gap.

example 2: i went to Amsterdam a few years ago. beautiful place, wonderful people!! they are used to Americans visiting and many of them know English.. it made it very easy for me. BUT, did i expect them to speak my language? nope. Do i think they should? nope. Do i appreciate their tolerance and overall positive attitude? absolutely!


Now, as far as Earth speaking one global language.. i don't see that as an impossibility.. nor do i think it would be American-English. Esperanto? possibly.. but doesn't seem to really be catching on..

Huns pointed out that English has a huge amount of words/expressions.. this is true. it does have a huge vocabulary.. but as Darwin pointed out, it's also a mangled mutt of a language.. and it's one of the hardest to learn.. even the basics. not to mention dialects/slang/etc..

You want a REALLY extensive language? why not bring back the Cyrillic alphabet (letters) with 44!?!

..now about we just make a new language? Earthlishesean or something? we can assume and integrate the alphabets of several languages.. create tons of letters/words/sybols/etc.. then, everyone can learn that and nobody will quabble about it anymore.. or if they do, they'll use Earthlishesean to express themselves in extremely specific terms never before possible..



Imagine all the people..

Excuse me Aliena... but what business is it of yours what language the clerks use, or what they're talking about? If they're not talking to you, it shouldn't be a concern of yours.

This kind of statement really makes me uneasy.

I'm not against learning English, I'm not against using it for clear communication. However, I will say that I am against categorically forcing people to speak one language in public no matter what just to ease other people's concerns about what these people might be talking about.

There are perfectly valid reasons for people to not want others to understand what they're saying. Compare it to the behavior used when you whisper to a friend of yours. People are curious about what you're saying, but it's not their business what you're talking about with your friend. Using a different language is just an expression of that same desire for privacy.

To draw a parallel with SL, that would be like one of the transparent society suggestions that was brought up a while back -- make all IMs public.

People categorically smacked down that particular suggestion. Nobody liked it. But why? Because you'd have to give up privacy.

What you suggest is much the same thing.

Sign language is one of my main languages. I use it all the time. And very often I will use it to talk privately with a friend in public if only so people don't horn in on our conversations. This ease of communication with relatively guaranteed privacy is something I would be very unwilling to give up.

Throughout most of history, the dominant country/empire's language is usually the one that's the "de facto" worldwide language.

Consider: Greek (during their height), Roman (during and after the fall of rome), French (still technically latin, if you wanna get snippy , and now English (from England and finally the US)

It troubles me greatly when people come into where I work and basically just point at what they want, because they don't want to learn english. It's rude, and it's a completely stupid way to go through life.

If you're living up here to get a job and feed your family, fine, more power to ya. But don't make hand gestures and expect me to know that it means "yes, I have a question about this boombox".

If I went down to mexico to work, and tried to get by by just waving my hands around, I'd get booed out of the town.

At least make an effort to learn the language around you, is all I'm saying.

No hablo espanol,
LF

A couple of quotes:

"The problem with defending the purity of the English language is that English is about as pure as a cribhouse whore. We don't just borrow words; on occasion, English has pursued other languages down alleyways to beat them unconscious and rifle their pockets for new vocabulary."
- James D. Nicoll

"English is the results of the efforts of Norman men-at-arms to make dates with Saxon barmaids in the 9th century, and no more legitimate than any of the other results."
- H. Beam Piper

Nergal,

i believe, if you were to ask her, Aliena would say that were those same clerks to be English-speaking clerks and started whispering to one another.. that this would be just as worrisome and rude as speaking a different language.

and i agree.

also, in general now, Darwin has a point.. what if i moved to another non-English speaking country, got a job at the local Stop-&-BuyCrap, then proceeded to speak English to my friend who happened to work with me.. would i expect the locals to smile and say, "oh, they're just speaking their 'native tongue'"? nope. i wouldn't be surprised if i got dirty looks.. and in several countries i wouldn't be surprised if the place i worked was boy-cotted or worse.

so yes, please, if you're going to live in a country.. please make an effort to learn the native tongue.. and here's the key point of tolerance, IF POSSIBLE.

i am in no way racist, but i do believe in being polite.

Cybin, fair points.

What got me hot under the collar was that Aliena was specifically picking out the case of people speaking a different language. It's an understandable reaction, but the sentiment that they shouldn't use their native language for a conversation that she has no part in bothered me. Mostly because of the privacy reasons I cited in my original post.

Ok, Some of you get the gist of what i was saying, and some of you think that i mean that i want EVERYONE to speak english, even in their homes, which i do not. i can understand older people not learning, and i think that people that come to the united states of america to be a productive part of society that do not learn english should go back to where they came from, BUT im not saying that this does not apply to other countrys as well, for exaple, if i were german and a bunch of pollacks lived in my town and refused to learn german and tried to speak polish to me and did not attemt to lear german i would say "VON GOTT-FLUCH ES, WENN SIE PHASEN IN DEUTSCHLAND FUCKING DEUTSCHES SPRECHEN ODER GEHEN ZURÜCK ZU, WO SIE KAMEN!!!!!!" (used a translator)

As far as a one world language, I don't think an invented language is going to work.

I mean, have you heard Esperanto? It's so grating, and robotic. It's nice to be able to hear the natural evolution and history in a language.

English being a hodgepodge and dominant in business, I imagine it will become the accepted 'world language' eventually. Regardless of it being my native language and almost universally useful, however, I still took the time and effort to learn Russian. I think even with English being an accepted language, people will still take the time to learn other languages.

Well, except Esperanto. I Was able to learn Esperanto quickly, as it was designed. But I just as quickly forgot it, because it sounds like Crap. I mean really. If that's not enough for you, consider this - William Shatner made a movie in it. 'nuff said

And, to the topic at hand - I have felt similarly in the past. I live in a rural community with a large population of migrant workers. It is frustrating to see when people don't seem to be making any effort to learn English whatsoever.

My thinking on this has been similar to people's opinions above. "If I were to move to another country, I would definitely learn the language". Most likely, I would try and learn the language before moving.

However, I've gotten to thinking about this rationale. If I were moving to another country, it would be because I was choosing to live someplace else (i.e. Amsterdam. Did you know you can teach yourself dutch online?) for reasons of aesthetics or whatever. Like, Paris would be nice, and I might choose to live there.

People coming to America, however, are usually choosing to do so for the opportunities it will afford them, or, because they were under duress in their own country. So, for most immigrants, it's much less of a 'choice' to move to this country. With this in mind, not learning the language is much more forgivable, especially for the older folks.