(ot) Dont say God it may offend someone

Rivn,

Thanks -- some of the concerns you mentioned I've thought a lot about, and some need more research on my part.

Of them, the one I'm the *least* concerned about is "lack of interaction with children of the same age groups in a setting such as schools where there are a wider variety of ethnic backgrounds and upbringing" --- this is one of the main reasons that I want to homeschool him, to keep his interaction with certain groups to a minimum. Now, I'm not talking about ethnic groups. I'm talking about "social" ones, such as spoiled brats and juvenile delinquents and the like.

One of the ones I haven't really researched yet is the "PS might not put him in the right grade if I have to enroll him" angle. I will research this one before the time comes to even begin HS'ing him, and I thank you for bringing it to my attention I honestly don't *think* it would be an issue, because I do plan to ensure that he (at a minimum) studies the same things as the kids in PS at his grade level and takes the same standardised tests that they take. The simple fact of the matter is that with HS'ing, assuming it's done correctly, the child receives Much more individual attention than in the PS. We wouldn't need to spend anywhere near the same amount of daily time teaching/learning as kids have to be in PS simply because of the student/teacher ratio.

Athletics -- most PS athletics departments do allow HS'ers to enroll, and if he wants to play football or basketball or run track or whatever (anything but ice hockey!) then I'm all for that.

I thought for a long time that when (if!) he decided to join the scouts that I'd be his Den Mother, but lately I've been rethinking that. IF we are HS'ing, then I think it would be in his best interest for me to -not- be the DM. So he'd have the experience of having someone other than Mommy in charge/authority. The last thing I want to do is stifle him or turn him into a hermit.

My husband's main concerns are that we aren't organized enough, that we'd "skip" too many "school" days, that we don't know enough about history/science/math to teach The Boy. While I freely admit I'm not the most organized person in the world, when it's something important to me, I am on the ball. Because of the 1/1 ratio in HSing in our case, I don't think "skipping" a day here and there would be an issue -- spend just 3 hours per day and the child has still gotten much more attention than he would have in PS. Anything I don't know, I'll simply learn WITH him. It all just seems so obvious to me, and easy, and exciting.

=)

Shebang, I fully support your desire to home-school your child...

With all the problems the public schools have today, I don't see why more parents don't homeschool their children. You've got drugs, sex, violence, overworked and underprepared teachers, and inadequate budgets...it's a wonder our kids get educated at all...

Personally, I think the government should give a stipend to every parent that wishes to homeschool their children, this amount should equal what it would cost to educate the child in PS. This will enable many parents who otherwise couldn't afford to quit work to stay home to be able to do so.

Here in the state of FL, there is a huge uproar over the dreaded FCAT, which is holding back a significant percentage of kids because they can't pass this decidely unfair exam, and schools are pitted against each other over the results of this ill-conceived test, as extra funding is funneled towards the "A" schools, and the poor schools are even worse off. Talk about a 2-class society

If large numbers of parents begin turning their backs to the public education system, perhaps things will change for the better, but for now, I think homeschooling is definately the way to go...

J

[ I warned y'all that I love discussing this subject! ]



I do. Many families HAVE to have both parents working. Many people don't feel up to the challenge of teaching geometry and chemistry and world events.

Both of those situations can usually be worked around. (Parents can work different shifts -- they can join a local HS group and share resources: one family would teach all the group kids math, another family would be in charge of science, etc.)

The biggie, and this is really sad, is that not all parents LIKE their kids enough to want to be with them all day every day.



You've just hit every nail square on the head. These are my biggest reasons for wanting to HS.

As to the gov. giving a stipend to HS'ers -- this does already happen in some places to some degree. The problem with this is that it opens your door to said Gov -- if they fund your 'school' then they can call the shots. I do not believe the amount of stipend is anywhere near to being equal to the amount allocated per child in PS, but I haven't thoroughly researched this aspect yet.

I say "I haven't thoroughly researched this aspect" a lot, don't I? I research HS'ing almost every day. It's a HUGE subject, with a lot of different aspects. I've been researching for a little over a year now, and I still feel like I've just barely scratched the surface. Sure would be nice if the gov would offer me a research grant....

I was not going to get into the home schooling debate but ....



ug.

Smash Mouth:


Book smarts is a secondary thing learned in school. The primary thing learned in school is social interaction skills. How to talk to people you don't know, how to handle your self in unsure situations, how to deal with the real world. Yes it's nice you want to protect your boy from all the harms and evils of the world, and it is a noble goal. What is your son gonna do when he first has to deal on his own without mommy there? Where is he going to learn the intricacies of communication, body language, scocial ladders and groups, and other things we take for granted that we learn just by being around other people. We learn them by being in situations we don't like. They make us grow in ways that are unmeasurable yet at the same time create the person. You are robbing from your child all of these oppurtunities for growth that are necessary to create a strong individual. Love, comfort and coddling(? right word?) are nice happy emotions and actions. But life is learned through strife and problems and learning to deal and handle those. 90% at least of what I learned in school did not come from any teachers, parents or authority figures. And it is that 90% that you will be denying your child. In my opinion.

After puberty the ability to learn new things drops dramatically. Body chemistry changes, you aren't building things (inside you) any more so it's harder to learn things. This is why second languages (for a lot of people) are hard to learn at older ages, but learning them when young is much easier. These social behaviors are very important in getting anywhere in life, and learning them at an older age is going to be -very- hard. I have met home schoolers before. I have some cousins who are home schooled (I have some personal issues with -how- they were home scooled, but that is a different discussion). No one that I have ever met who was home schooled have I felt was a well rounded individual.

I really don't know why I posted this. I don't believe I can change you mind. However if you can afford to stay home and teach the boy, I think your time would be better spent getting a job and using all that money (since you don't need it to live if you were gonna be able to stay home) to send your boy to private school. A job as a teacher would still give you summers and afternoons with him, and there are other part time jobs. But it is your life, your son and your right to raise him as you see fit. Good luck in whatever path you choose.

Ugh, I was going to stay out too but here I am.

I was considering HS and am still. My concerns are less social and more having a different type of relationship with my daughter. Ive heard pros and cons about being teacher and parent and its a very hard decision. I applaud those that can pull it off. Meanwhile I sit on the fence.

The thing that I learned in MY research is "lack of socialization" is the biggest misconception of HSing. HS'ers have big networks that plan events, outings etc to address this. As far as sports, there are more and more cuts in public schools which puts arts and sports programs at risk. Depending on public schools for sports (IMHO) is a mistake if that is a main reason for choosing public schools. Having a daughter this is especially a concern to me with the recent debate on the value of Title 9.

Anyway, there are plenty of organizations out there offering youth sports that are not associated with public schools.

Two things.

The first being the idea that book smarts take second string to the interaction skills learned in school..

I was said hermit. Artist and writer I didnt interact with more that 3 people for the entire length of my schooling. I dont mean those were my friends, I mean I "didnt" interact with others. I just ignored them, kept my distance, and associated with my 3 friends and the teachers. I didnt want to know the rest, and took efforts not to have to know them. My sister was a social butterfly, and in watching her, I watched what I least wanted to be.

It didnt in anyway affect my ability to deal with other people. As an adult I am one of the most social people that most people will meet. I am very outgoing and and deal with new people and new situations in a easy and seamless manner. Lol want proof? Ask Sassy. She will me more than happy to expand "complain" upon this fact.


Second thing..

For Shebang... I was raised for the time prior to school years by my grandparents. As an endorsement to HSing. I entered First grade reading college textbooks (not with 100% comprehension - but the ability to read at that level was firmly entrenched), my math skills were equal to a 6th grader, as was my knowledge of history, and general science. As a matter of fact, I did not encounter much new material until I hit middle school. All of this was becasue my grandparents encouraged reading, both them to me and me to them, and workbook problems both while at home and on trips. There was no thought of home schooling - just a desire for me to have a bit more understanding before I was placed in school. HS'ing done with patience to an eager mind can reap vast rewards for that childs future.

Probably not, but I appreciate the concerns you've raised. They're some of the same ones that my husband has.

In no particular order -- I don't want to teach other people's kids. Being a (public or private) school teacher is most definitely not going to happen.

"How to talk to people you don't know, how to handle your self in unsure situations, how to deal with the real world" -- I don't believe this is un-doable in a HS situation. We're not going to lock ourselves in the house all day every day. We're going to be Out and About on what the school system calls "field trips" -- far, far more of them than the PS can/will do. We're going to be involved with other kids (both HS'd ones as well as PS ones). More important to my thinking, he's going to be involved with other Adults -- the people he needs to be able to interact with when he is an adult. I'm not going to be breathing down his neck or tie him to my apron strings. As he gets older and more mature, the physical distance between us will grow.

I'm not going to attempt to discount your experiences with the HS'ers you've met. I've met one or two that didn't quite live up to my expectations either. I've also met some who are simply wonderful to be around -- intelligent, self confident, mature and still playful.

I appreciate your comments, Ama =)

When is he going to get time to be around just other kids? When is he going to get time without mommy?

Oh one other bonus of HSing.... lets face it we are all not always where we want to be with out education.

Teaching your children (if you are motivated to do so) means learning (or re-learning) alot of subject matter yourself. Sometimes (with requirements being higher now days) it means learning more.

Not ready for geometry or trig? well... you will be refreshing at the same time you are teaching - moreso in the act of teaching you are gaining a better handle on it yourself - when your child is ready to tackle the higher problems, you will be ready to teach them. You are both student and teacher. You learn, you impart. Both child and parent grow.

Now isnt that just a wonderful thing to think about

(Sas and I have a friend who HS's her 3 boys - all my information on this stems from her own words and experiences in the process).

Thank you.

Jax: I would rather have someone who knew the subject matter, know how to teach it, teach it than for me to try and teach it. There are so many ways I could teach it -wrong- and teach the wrong stuff without even knowing its wrong, just because I don't know the subject matter.

In my eyes that is an argument -against- HS.

Its not as if public schools always get it right either. Didnt we all learn that Columbus discovered America? What about all the dinosaur "facts" that are now wrong?

You blame those on the teacher?

Elemntary school is different. In that case I just think 'different people know different things' and thus the child can learn more by learning from them durring the day, and the parent when they come home.

In highschool though (and junior high) I feel more confident that a teacher who teaches Math all day, for several years probably, knows more about the subject and how to teach it than I do.

When he's ready for it. And yes, I do, with his Daddy, decide when he's ready. I'm open to discussion with The Boy on the subject as well, of course. Matter of fact, *his* bringing it up to me, and the manner in which he presents his side of the matter, will play a very large part in the end decision.

Here's the thing -- I want to know those "other kids". Not just in passing, not just be able to tell you their first names. I want to Really Know Them. This is while he is young. As he grows and matures things will change somewhat. He'll have more freedom, but I'm not going to be one of those parents that doesn't know where her child is or who he's hanging out with.

Yeah this is why I didn't wanna get in on this topic. Your primary reason for doing it, what you will be doing, causes so many alarm bells to ring in my head, my muscles to tense and my head to spin at the image that creates.

The exact reason I -want- my kids to attend school are the reasons you don't. I fear what so much coddling and protecting will do to the poor child. I am sorry, I really don't mean to offend, that is really just how I feel. Please, please let the poor child experience life. Not just the shadow of it that you feel is safe.

My point is, there is no "perfect" method. The educational system is flawed. Yes some teachers are great but frankly there is a shortfall of good teachers in this day & age, especially in California.

Ama, you have not offended me.

I don't think you fully understand my intentions, but even if you do then you still have not offended me. Ok?

Things which are 'safe' for a 16 year old are not necessarily safe for a 10 year old. Things which a 10 year old can do shouldn't necessarily be done by a 5 year old.

The girls are allowed to walk to the grocery store during daylight hours (after receiving permission, of course). The almost 13 year old is allowed to go by herself, but the 11 year old can only go if she goes with her sister. There is no way in BLEEP that The Boy is going to be allowed to go along with them at 17 months old. Nor at 2 years old. *Possibly* at 3 years old with the oldest girl, as she'll be 15/16 then. It depends on HER maturity level at that time. By himself? Not for quite a lot of years. Before he's 13 years old? Depends on his own maturity level at the time.

I don't allow him to play with matches or knives -- am I coddling him or protecting him?

I don't want him pushed into certain situations before he can handle them, and I don't think he must learn how to handle them all by himself or with the help of "friends".

"Friends" bought me my first pack of smokes when I was 13 and taught me how to inhale and blow really kewl smoke rings. "Friends" gave me a joint when I was 14 and taught me how to hold it and how to drag and just how much to inhale... and then laughed their high heads off while I tried to cough up a lung. "Friends" bought me my first beer that same year, and laughed while I puked my guts out. "Friends" taught me a heckuva lot....

Yes, I was weak-willed. Yes, I followed my pack. No, not all kids do.

Some of my friends were killed the summer before senior year. They were driving along, high as kites, and had an accident. Their car rolled and burst into flames. Four of them died almost instantly. One died in the hospital 3 months later. Only one survived.

Do we need to talk about all the kids who've been shot in the PS system? Or about all the kids who can barely read but are still being promoted from grade to grade and even graduating?

Protecting him from the "seedier" elements of society until he is mature enough to deal with them on his own is only -one- of the reasons I want to homeschool him. I honestly do believe that I can give him a better education than the PS system does. Oh, and to clear up a misconception, I -do- have to work. I simply work from home rather than in an office somewhere. So if I wanted to send him to a private school, I would have to take a 2nd job which would mean even less time to spend with him after school.

And.. I'm sorry I'm making you tense. I'm done here -- if anyone wants to continue discussing HS'ing, my email is always open (click the #! in my signature).

Er... first of all I wasn't asking for a response *coughspellingcough*. Second of all, you post as though you wanted to hear what others opinions were, and I gave you my opinion, and in return you merely insult me saying that what I think is pathetic. Not exactly a way to make friends...

Finally, I heard that the only other people who made a pledge of allegiance were Hitler and Stalin...
Someone wanna look into that and tell me if it's true or not? (Seeing as how it's just another legitimate reason to get rid of our pledge...)

_________________
Rivn's thread is now longer. Let us cheer for Rivn. Yay Rivn.

The Philippines have a pledge to their flag.

Lets see, some facts...

1) Nazi Germany also forbid the use of the pesticide DDT on the grounds that it was a health hazard

2)Nazi Germany was also the first country in the world to actively launch anti-smoking campaigns

3) In 1937 the Nazis enacted laws prohibiting the sale of alcohol to minors and enacted stiff penalties for drunken-driving, introducing the first blood tests for automobile drivers suspected of being under the influence while behind the steering wheel.

So because the Nazis worked to abolish smoking, drunk driving, and health control against pesticides - those things are wrong and we should allow them all?

Just because a monster does terrible things doesnt mean that everything they ever did is by default "wrong".

( information derived from http://www.tks.org/europa.htm )

Have You Forgotten?
Written By: Darryl Worley and Wynn Varble

I hear people saying we don't need this war
I say theres' some things worth fighting for
What about our freedom and this piece of ground?
We didn't get to keep' em by backing down
They say we don't realize the mess we're getting in
Before you start preaching let me ask you this my friend

Chorus I:
Have you forgotten how it felt that day
To see your homeland under fire
and her people blown away?
Have you forgotten when those towers fell?
We had neighbors still inside
Going through a living hell
And you say we shouldn't worry' bout Bin Laden
Have you forgotten?

They took all the footage off my T.V.
Said it's too disturbing for you and me
It'll just breed anger that's what the experts say
If it was up to me I'd show it every day
Some say this country's just out looking for a fight
After 9/11 man I'd have to say that's right

Chorus I:
I've been there with the soldiers
Who've gone away to war
And you can bet that they remember
Just what they're fighting for

Chorus 2:
Have you forgotten all the people killed?
Some went down like heroes in that Pennsylvania field
Have you forgotten about our Pentagon?
All the loved ones that we lost
And those lest to carry on
Don't you tell me not to worry about Bin Laden
Have you forgotten?

Have you forgotten?
Have you Forgotten?