Escorts

So i'm interested to see player's ideas on escorting. Do you hate it, find it sick, love it, get turned on or...? I see alot of different views.

If you wanted a real opinion instead of just a gratuitous, vaguely relevant aphorism, mine is "live and let live, not my cup of tea, but neither is golf".

On this particular issue i think it should be handled in a simple manner

What adults do with Consent , in private, does not infringe on others rights , and for whatever personal movtivations -- should not be outsiders business.

This would cover all sorts of things , Escorts, Dom/Sub , furries, swingers .. whatever people enjoy.

As far as advertizing these sorts of things .. they should be only in the proper areas and venues .. which is already required by the PG / Mature rules.

I agree 101%

My personal opinion is that you can do whatever you want, but really, if you need to PAY someone to give you a VIRTUAL blowjob you're one hell of a freaking loser.

I agree with everything everybody has said! lol

coco

Well .. it might be possible that there are quite a few people who arent very good at Virtual and Cyber sex.

And it also possible that in such a case some people dont have the time nor the inclination to meet a lot of people to find someone who they do think is good at it.

So perhaps, they hire someone who knows what they are doing.

Their time lost meeting people who are unaccomplished participating with them in the things they enjoy might be more valuable to them then the money required for a professional.

Interesting how "Escort" is immediately equated with "hooker"...it seems the accepted definition of an escort is paid sex...or at least the one that immediately comes to mind (read the above).

However, hookers (be they hired over the phone, through an agency or picked up off the street, I do not see the difference and neither does the law) and the practice of hooking is illegal. That is a fact, I believe, not an opinion. I would think a legal escort that was serious about escorting and not being a hooker may not go further than massage (and I'm not talking about a tug job).

So, if there was a service that purely served as escorts, and not as hookers, that would seem to be fine (though I personally detest the practice of hiring yourself out as a hands-off companion). But, as we can see from the above, escorting is generally equated with paid sex, which is hooking.

Some questions I guess that would be useful to answer...

By extension, is hooking in SL different than hooking in RL because the person is using an avatar to perform essentially the same service...but on another digital avatar? What if you can prove the intent of the user was to obtain RL money for the virtual sex service? Does LL think this is a good idea, is it something they want to represent as part of their hosted service? Death threats are illegal in SL, because they are illegal anywhere. However, you can not actually kill an avatar. If digital hooking is legal...why not digital death threats? Because one makes you uncomfortable, and the other does not?

Imagine the Times article, or BBC..."Linden Labs, creators of Second Life, permits virtual hooking! Quoted one LL employee, "they're adults and should be allowed to sell eachother services of any kind, and we of course have no control over whether those services spill into RL, so that's not our problem."

How do you ensure these virtual escorts are not crossing any lines...like getting paypal payments for digital sex or to stream in live scenes of themselves masturbating or something? If you own a bar, and you take monthly payments from women so that they can stand in your bar and "do whatever it is they do, I'm not concerned I run a bar", is the establishment owner blameless? Of course not. How is this different than LL enabling this behavior? They know it's happening, and they are taking money from people doing it. What if, one day, some guy falls in love with a digital escort he has paid thousands of LL dollars to for sex and companionship, and decided to seek her out? Is LL blameless? Keep in mind that in any moderated chat or board of any kind, suggesting you are selling sex, virtually or not, is against the rules.

Would you want your daughter doing it? Or your husband/father wife/mother? If you walked in and found your 18 year old daughter, or your wife, offering digital sex for money, which she could convert easily to RL dollars, would you think this was a good thing, that it was just harmless fun, or would you be concerned about the impression and or pattern of behavior this leads to? Would you be angered with LL for enabling it? What would you say to the guy who had your daughter's avatar's legs up in the air and was having virtual sex with her in a roomful of people watching...and getting paid for it? Just imagine your daugher/wife, sitting there screaming "GIVE IT TO ME STUD!!!!" via her avatar, or your son/husband saying, "yeah baby, v-head and rimmer, I got coin"...and again, maybe your daughter negotiating these services like a chinese menu?

What if you found your daughter or wife cashing a check from these proceedings? "Mommy made gas money this week on the v-hook!".

It's not just about "what adults want to do behind closed doors". There ARE NO CLOSED DOORS in SL. Hidden ones, hard to find ones maybe, but if you put your mind to it there is no wall that can keep you out. In RL you can't just sit on a box and slide yourself up through a floor and over through a concrete wall.

First life or Second life....well I prefere to sit on my fortune I think

Personally, I just don't get into Pixel-sex - I prever the RL variety myself.

However - I'm also of the opinion that I have no right to judge others who get enjoyment out of it. To each their own, and as long as the folks doing it are consenting adults - and keep it either private, or at venues that embrace it, I say knock yourself out

Well of course Escorts are paid for their time only.

Any sexual activity that results is just circumstantial.

SO we can for sake of arguement, say Escorts do not engage in prostitution
----------------

However, prostitution is not illegal everywhere. It is though throughout much of the United States.

Also something to note is that Phone sex for money is not illegal for people over 18.

Cybersex is less "real" then phone sex, after all

so is cybersex for money actually prostitution? I am not sure that it is.

----------------

I previously stated what happens in private between adults is their own business ill stick to that .. in private meeaning in land where the owner has deemed such use acceptable and is following the SL rules for land use.

I did not say necesaarily behind closed doors .. i meant that any agreement for sexual activity between the participants was a private one.

whether I would want someone to do it or not is besides the point, I dont have the moral authority to force behavior to be what I would want or what I think others would want on other adults.

Soliciting sex for money (or offering it up for money) is against the law. Granted the state of virtual reality complicates the issue. However I don't think it's as simple as, "it ain't real". It's been argued that prostitution actually has less to do with the physical sex than the feeling of control and other psychological aspects, and I don't think anybody intelligent can ignore those effects. Experienced prostitutes (or escorts heh-hem) undoubtedly cultivate those effects, either deliberately or instinctively. All men do not pursue paid sex because their wives are ugly or don't put out. No, it's a often a departure from reality, fantasy, that the buyer gets addicted to, not the actual sex, which they may be very well getting from their wives or girlfriends. In fact I know a guy into "escorts". His wife is a bombshell and VERY cool. If she ever found out, he'd lose her. That's part of the fun I guess.

The "incidental" thing doesn't fly either. We used to try that with beer bashes...it's not illegal to serve beer. It's illegal to sell it. So, the beer is incidental. You're paying for the band. Take my word for it the cops didn't see it our way. Imagine, "yes, I know I'm getting a blowjob from a 19 year old girl I don't know. But I only paid her $500 to come to dinner, nothing more." Yeah right. I've got 27 bags of pot on me, all perfectly equally weighed to 3.5 grams, and it should be obvious, your honor, that it's all for personal use. Sometimes I guess you can't blame the courts for saying, "bullshit".

You know, there was a girl in EQ that got caught providing sex through her avatar for money (plat). She apparently did very well selling the plat for RL dollars. The service was uncovered and her character banned from the server. She wound up on another server I believe, though I don't know anything more about it. Her avatar name (in EQ) was Kela I believe. She also published pics of herself naked on the internet in the EQ boards to entice people. True, EQ is not an 18+ game, and that probably had a lot do to with it. But it is a well known fact that 18- is on the adult grid. I don't think it would be considered non-negligent to say, "but it's not ALLOWED so we're not culpable".

How would you feel if that was your daughter, or wife? And say one say, some twisted guy sexually teased to obsession by your family member snapped and beat the hell out said daughter/wife/son/whatever?

If you found out LL was fully aware that this activity was occurring on their servers, even in a general sense (and if they deny it that would be another "bullshit", would you hold them to blame for enabling it? Yes, true, it's possible that it would have happened elsewhere anyway. But the point is, it didn't, it happened here because you allow it here.

I'm pretty sure you could make the case to hold the hosting company irresponsible and negligent.

Anyway, the issue appears to be far more extensive than, "it's not real, it's just for fun, nobody can or ever will be negatively effected by it unless there is something wrong with them in the first place, and then it would have happened anyway so what does it matter where it happens.".

If prostitution in SL is real prostitution, then murder in SL is real murder. So everytime I shoot an avatar the police should start banging on my door.

So you would argue that there is no problem with death threats in SL? Somebody walk up to you and say, "I see you. And I am very, very much considering killing you..." that's all good?

After all, it ain't real.

But we know that's not the case. Death threats in SL are against the rules.

It is not as simple as "this is SL not RL". If it were they would not have task forces solely dedicated to monitoring chat rooms and online games (and they do).

If you enable the behavior, sooner or later a predator will figure out that he can get away with it here, and will take the next step. It's not like this has never happened before, and it is part of the reason why companies log chat extensively and monitor it for specific things. Imagine the interview with that criminal..."yeah, I know. But TONS of people do this in SL. People make RL money doing it. The company knows and doesn't care. It was so easy!".

The real vs. unreal argument would be more acceptable if there were not real people entirely in control of the actions of the avatars performing/receiving the services. But the people are very much real. What is different is the environment for transaction, which sort of turns SL into a laundering area for illicit services. One layer of abstraction and it's legal? I dunno...

OR, they could try actually talking to a woman, face to face!
The shock! The horror!
If people start doing this they may actually get laid!
We can't have that. No, Sir.
People should just sit on their ass all day long wacking off to pixel dolls like God intended!

Tchoz,...

Colette made some very good points that you have failed to address.
I suggest you try doing so, rather than repeating your original stance all over again.

That is mostly true in the US (excepting certain counties in Nevada), but its irrelevant to what is happening with SL escorts. THERE IS NO SEX happening in SL.

There might be dirty talk and flirting and teasing. There might be what some would call pornography by having digital images of sex between 2 avatars generated on someone's computer monitor. But the only sex that might be happening is "self stimulation", and the last that I heard, jacking off is legal in all 50 states.

- Ace

In most States in the US this is true .. it is not true everywhere .. that was my point. It is irrational to assume whatever laws you have in your state/city/country apply everywhere in the world.

Have no idea if or what juristiction would apply to cyberspace if it were determined that cybersex was legally prostitution.

Like I said how I would feel has nothing to do with it. I dont feel whether Escorts belong in real life or in cyberspace is about me personally.

I am not opposed to making prostitution legal everywhere in First Life so it would be silly for me to be opposed to it in Second Life, wouldnt it?

I believe i stated "for arguements sake" the sex was incidental and Escorts werent prostitutes. Whether they are or not is a different question.

I also never mentioned the word Escort in response to why someone would pay for sex. I merely offered an alternative reason to the statement that someone who would pay as "a loser".

As far as the prostitute in EQ being banned .. thers a ton of things that go on in Second Life that would get someone banned from in EQ.

And as to 18- on the adult grid arguement .. If i were to agree with it, I would say then all sex should be banned .. not just prostitution.. if its impossible to have an adult environment at all then its impossible. Or is it cool for these 18- peopel to have free virtual sex on the adult grid, not paid virtual sex?

I do not see protitution (well leave Escorts out for the time being) as somehow worse then Sub/Dom, Gorean, Furry, Swinger Culture ... Like i siad its up to the adults involved.

As far as uinder 18 .. well they arent supposed to be here .. thats the whole point.

yes im sure there are some .. but they are definitely breaking the rules .. arent they?

Am not sure where their parents are.

Edit --

i may have repeated some of what you all said ... it took me a while to type this .. multitasking today ..

Tcoz, you can't equate escorting in SL with hooking in the real world. If you do then we enter into the territory of regulating speech. If there's a real life equivelant it would be phone sex which is not illegal.

Well of course people getting involved in Real life relationships and resultant activity is a good thing.

But its basically counter productive to that effort to call people losers for enjoying cyber sex. Since RL datign takes confidence .. an attempt to insult people for enjoying it basiclly will make them less confident.

.. or am i confused on the intention of all these posters on various threads demanding people "get a real life".

I think escorts are a great idea. They keep your important supply convoys from being destroyed by enemy raiding parties.

Wait, what kind of escorts are we discussing again?

I don't see anything wrong with "escorting" in Second Life. After all it is the world's oldest profession and far outdates such professions like scripter and prim builder. A girl who is enthusiastic and knows what she is doing can make good money "escorting".

Of course I don't know this from personal experience. A friend told me.

Does this apply to the guy who is shy? the girl who is housebound or cant walk?Your post seems to imply that everyone who indulges in virtual sex is a 'loser' which I doubt VERY much is the actual case Eggy.

You think this is confined to Second Life? I've seen escorts in Lineage2 and Star Wars Galaxies so dont for one minute think Second Life has a monopoly here.If Escorts were not providing a service then they would'nt get paid and nobody in SL is forced to be one so good luck to them I say.

I, myself don't even know how I feel on this one and I am CURRENTLY an escort. I personally do it for the money I get in game and if some guy is going to shell out 800L for maybe 20 minutes at the most of it, then whatever. I guess i'm lowering myself according to some people's standards but I do not have a husband, nor am I actually interacting physically, or converting my L to outer world money. If its game money, it's game money and I run no risk of catching an STD or hurting anybody.
Say a real prostitute got into SL somehow and DID start escorting + converting their L into cash.. maybe they would not run such the risk of getting raped or getting their heads beaten in with base ball bats, not that I am saying LL should allow this but to stop such critical remarks. Many people have not been in situations as desperate as this so they can so easily say that people are sluts, whores, skanks, what have you.. please go through life in another person's shoes and get back to me on that.

Some of you are taking this thread WAY too seriously. Drop your panties and unzip your pants and have some fun!