Tragedy of the commons

"If you follow a spending pattern such that your money will always be replenished, or even increased, by your stipend, you effectively have unlimited money."

Nup, taxes eat that up.

Let me tell you what my estimated taxes are for the week.
L$1587 Object Tax
L$635 Light Tax (even for the ones that are turned off)
L$2563 Land Tax (1/16th... theme sim... whatcha gonna do)
L$4785 Total Tax

L$1000 Base Stipend
L$1726 Bonus
L$2726 Total Stipend

Even if I was getting the full L$3500 stipend, I'm still getting taxed L$4785. There is NO WAY for me to continue to build unless I can find a way to get additional money. In fact I am going to go into the negatives pretty soon, even though I am holding events and getting a nice amount of votes. So I have to take some stuff into inventory until I can figure out a better way to operate.

Maybe I can sell the land to the group founder. But then he'll have to support an extra burden of L$2500 per week, and he's already got enough money sunk into the project as it is. Even if I did that there's still a limit on how much I can build because eventually the object taxes (which are high because I build 60 meters off the ground, being in Kazenojin and all) will eventually eclipse my stipend and bonus.

You also made the BIIIIIIIG mistake of getting into subjective arguments about what is worthwhile and what is clutter. My furniture costs hundreds to rez, because it is finely detailed. And people like it, and they buy it, because they don't want unimaginitive, spartan, blocky furniture. Are you saying there is something wrong with having a light or a table that has more than the absolute bare minimum number of primitives? I think you will find a thin audience for that idea. If I want to fill my house with flowerpots and Gaugins with backlighting and have a lamp in every room and an accurate replica of a Victorian dining table and furniture and tea set, that's my business. (Go look at the castles and haciendas of the north continent, you'll see plenty of that. Good luck fighting off mobs of angry avatars if these marvels are made plain and unimaginitive by your hands.)

What you've got to acknowledge is that this is simply not a problem for the vast majority of us. It's a problem in Da Boom. It's not, as far as I have heard, a problem anywhere else. If you are sick of it, go somewhere else. I'm sure the Lindens won't mind changing the Disco Alt-Zoom landmark they put in everyone's default inventory. You can leave a small sign for anyone else who wanders in expecting to find it there. If you don't own the primitives that it consists of, I'm sure they'll be willing to transfer them to you. Perhaps you can move to one of the new mature sims that will be floating up on the northern reaches, we could certainly use the extra foot traffic.

I think most of us are sympathetic that you are running into object creation limitations, but getting into wildly subjective arguments about what you think does or doesn't have value is hardly the way to garner support. Nor is indicating that you don't think it's your problem that your music is causing problems for your neighbors... that's a real sore point for some people. Maybe they think it's pointless for you to have a disco where people go to "dance," which consists of pressing F8 through F12 and Shift-F8 through Shift-F12. Which one of you is right? Neither, it's a purely subjective argument.

We're all straying from the point here.
I contend three very simple things:

1) A shared-resource system is broken if it allows a user (or small set of users) to deplete its limited resources for everyone else.

This is called a "Tragedy of the Commons" in economical theory or "Denial of Service" in Computer Science.

Can anyone here argue that this is false? It's widely regarded as true in a variety of fields, and considered a very serious problem. I would never have expected anyone to disagree on this.

2) Too many objects on too little land, renders the rest of the sim useless.

Around 60% of the land in Da Boom is free, and there is less than 9% of object quota available.
This means that on average, each person that moves into Da Boom will only be able to use around 90 prims!

Wouldn't it be much better and more logical if the people moving in to take some of that 60% of land available could have 60% of the prim quota to build their house with?

It would.

3)Human nature dictates that people are generally selfish even if they do not realize it. It also dictates that we like pretty things. I believe that due to our natural tendency to decorate the crap out of our houses, this sort of thing may very well become common: depleting the resources in a sim to the point where no one will be able to use the free land.

If anyone wants to argue for or against these points, I welcome their input. The rest is dross.

As for "banking prims", as much as I want to "snoop around" I don't have access to rooms behind script-locked doors. I will try to talk to the Lindens (again), but how do you define "banking prims"?

It is (IMHO) no more ethical to have a beautiful scripted fountain with 116 prims than it is to have a barrel with 116 marble-sized spheres.

It is still undue depletion of shared resources: With 116 prims, a lot of people could build and decorate an entire house.

But since half of the people here are more of an artist than a scientist you will probably argue to the death that you have the innate right to unfetteredly create whatever comes to your mind, even if afterwards no one else can use the server and its large portion of free land.

Some statistics to back me up:
Freelon - Objects:68%, Land:47%
Varney - Objects:59%, Land:43%
Stillman - Objects:32%, Land:30%
Natoma - Objects:79%, Land:27%
Clementina - Objects:46%, Land:33%
Welsh - Objects:60%, Land:48%
Jessie - Objects:57%, Land:24%
Stanford - Objects:49%, Land:26%
Tehama - Objects:69%, Land:59%

How much does anyone want to bet that the new sims' statistics will eventually look like this? Like I said, some people have a natural tendency to excessively decorate their houses, leading to resource depletion for everyone else.
It's not that I am against beauty and art, just that I feel that everyone should get a fair share. I can always buy more land but I can never increase the amount of stuff I can build. It's fixed. Don't deprive me of it.

Point the first: You aren't able to seperate the intrinsic value of a prim as a server resource and as a building block in something useful or aesthetically pleasing.

A painting could be made of a couple bottles of $2 oil paints on a $10 canvas, but the painting could be extremely valuable or priceless. Bauxite and crude oil are cheap, but correctly processed, they are the main components in $200 bikes.

Point the second: There is no shortage of resources in SL. While there are some sims where a larger amount of objects than land is being used, in many more it's the reverse. Look at some other region stats:

Rose Object usage 44%, land usage 78%
Mocha Object usage 21%, land usage 80%
Slate Object usage 29%, land usage 49%
Teal Object usage 33%, land usage 80%
Tan Object usage 15%, land usage 33%
Clara Object usage 46%, land usage 46%
Zoe Object usage 58% land usage 74%
Taber Object usage 22% land usage 33%
Hawthorne Object usage 43%, land usage 90%
Federal Object usage 33%, land usage 45%
Shipley Object usage 71%, land usage 85%
Lusk Object usage 45%, land usage 66%
Perry Object usage 18%, land usage 41%

This isn't including places like the themed sims (though your plan would make it nigh impossible to be able to build there without some complicated system of handing off builders' creations to the sixteenths landowners), which have land usage 100%, or Boardman/De Haro and their counterparts, which are understandably skewed by zoning rules.

I'm sorry that you live in a crowded area, Eggy, but your proposals just plain don't make sense for many of us.

Whhheeeeeeeeeeee

I hereby officially argue that this is not the case in SL. That there is no Tragedy of Commons taking place. And that you are a poor victim of circumstance in this instance. Those people that can buy up all those primitives, or all that land whichever they choose, have in some manner earned that right in SL. Through votes, ratings, they may have earned a small portion of it. But most likely they worked hard or made something great or both to get to that point. Other residents have in whatever manner, for whatever reason said "Hey, you can have some of *my* resources." And yes resources are synonomous with money. And yes, once they get there, they can build a 200 prim fountain if they want, along with a 2,000 prim mansion that all fits on a 4m*4m plot of land. If they can master that I want to see it.
Their taxes would be incredible for how tall it would be though.


I'm going to assume typo here and that you mean 900 prims (9% of a sim). I think the problem here is you are looking at a small subset of the economy and trying to justify it, saying it doesn't work. The economy is designed to work accross the entire world. Money isn't restricted to a per sim level, each sim with its own currency would be interesting but largely unplayable.

Although this gives me an Idea...... I could create a group of the top 15 richest people, that should give us about $1 mil, a little over maybe. We could sell off all our assets and go buy up all the available prims in some popular regions. We can then create our own prim economy where we sell prims to other people in specific sims so they can build the house they want..... hm extortion!

This is what people work for in SL. It is what they strive for, what they horde money for. They don't do it to live in a box. They do it so they can build the decorated house they want. With lots of prims. There is nothing wrong with that.

Practice alt-ctrl mouse drag and alt-shift mouse drag and alt mouse drag. This is a reminder to everyone: a locked door does not mean no one can see in. It is trivially easy to look inside a locked house now and almost as easy to get in there. That is just a general warning though and I don't really advocate the practice. Your best bet may be the lindens.

ACK! Totaly offbase I am sorry. The point of SL is to build. To create. Whether that is social aspects you are building or buildings. And here is your problem. There are many things I believe to be worth lots of primitives. And like Schwartz so ellegantly said, the base materials aren't what determine the value. I almost feel sorry that you live in such a stark world, and want to turn SL into such a stark world, that objects are always just worth the sum of their pieces.

Well here I am going to digress because I believe I already talked about that. One issue that I think you are running into is the SL monotary (meaning 1 unified resource) system and the multple resources it represents. The amount of money in the world is a representation of the available resources, that includes land and primitives in one giant heap. There is no seperation of resources, no "X amount of landollars, Y amount of primollars, and Z amount of scriptollars". Which means people can spend unequally on land or objects.

But back to your post.

Um k you either didn't look at your stats or hoped others wouldn't. Stillman?? Its a whopping 200 prims out of balance, and fairly low on both! I am suprised Tehama is so low, it used to be much, much wose. Natoma has always been a pit of lag, from being the original welcome area before welcome areas were linden owned. Its filled with shops and the Avatar central is a prim mess, although it was recently cleaned up pretty nicely. Jessie I can't believe you put on there, that zone is in no way a 'normal' zone, and three of your zones aren't even at 50% yet.

But the strongest point is Schwartz's. The economy is designed around the game world as a whole, not around each sim. There are plenty of places that aren't experiencing what you are. And 8 of his are from the 'Old World'.

Flawed argument. You can't always buy more land. It is just as fixed as the prim count, just more expensive. There are exactly 4096 land squares to buy per sim. There are 65,536 square meters per sim. However this makes me realize something. You are asking everyone to be limited to 2.44 primitives per square of land they own. Thats right, 2.44 . You are saying they can only build 1 primitive per 6.55 square meters of land they own. Does that make sense to you? The standard cabin fits well in a 12 land square area (3 * 4 to include some extra land), but is 35 prims to start - already 5 prims over your limit and not even furnished!

I would be willing to bet that you as well are over this prim limit of yours.

Coming from the IGN boards I recognize this stuff. Dunno if you have delt with it before or not. Based on the contradictory nature of the argument's going on in this thread, the repetitiveness of said arguments, and the repeated blindness to any fact that hampers said arguments I would like to propose you are dealing with a professinal, died in the wool 'Troll'.

Your best course of action (especialy since you guys have been around so long and know how the system is working regardless of this guys raving) is to simply walk away and prentend this thread doesn't exist.

ACK, its up to 99% object usage! 8% in a single day?
I have already talked to one of the lindens and filed an abuse report.
On top of that I found a place with what looks like objects duplicated in a hurry, possibly anticipating stipend day.
I am sorry if you all don't understand the concept of fairness, and I hope the same doesnt happen to you northerners. Time will tell.
I hope no one ever hires any of you to manage anything. If you worked for a company and not only let a single user take control of all the resources in a server, but even attempt to justify his "right" to anarchically do whatever he feels like, you would be SO fired
I just hope this doesnt get in the way of my events there

OK.

After reading through this entire forum, I have found that.

1.) Everyone Makes good points

2.) Of course the system is flawed, No matter what you do someone will find a way to abuse it.

3.) Item Banking is not good! Don't do it!


There has been a lot of disscussion on how people abuse the system and how horrible the tax system is. Well when you get right down too it, its not all that bad. Sure there are flaws in it, but are there not flaws in Real Life tax systems?

Everyone wants what is best for themselves, not looking at the entire picture is where we fail. If eveyone got what they wanted, what is the pupose of the game at that point. What is driving us to play? If we continually gain wealth then there is no point to build other than becuause its fun, and to refute your agruments about decorative objects. What if some people like them? Just because you don't you want to eliminate anothers right to have them. Like I said look outside yourself and see how the system is working for everyone, and there will be abuse, no matter what you do it will be there.

In closing, this was a good forum to read. It had alot of good points and it shows the flaws in the system. I think eveyone has good arguments, and your points are well taken.

Ignore the troll? Pfeh. Whatever. I have picked my teeth with tougher arguments than this. Why pretend the thread doesn't exist when we can make him eat his words? He DID insult everyone who disagreed with him. That includes me.

"I hope no one ever hires any of you to manage anything." Tell me that ain't a slap in the face. Or the earlier implication that we would have to be fools not to agree that this is a "tragedy of the commons" or "denial of service."

I'll tell you what, Eggy. I will give you one chance to take back your egregious slander. After that, the gloves are off.

Well, i'm glad to hear you finally decided to do something about the object usage in that sim.

But as far as being hired to manage something, ecspecially if you hired by the Lindens, then you should have told them earlier about the problem with the sim you were in, rather than coming onto these boards and screaming holy change to the economic system. The Lindens are there to help you, and i'm sure if you would have told them earlier, they would have diffuse the situation earlier, or helped you figure out what was going on. It's just like in a regular work environment. You wouldn't go around preaching to all of your fellow co-workers about needing a change, or that you hate this person and wish they would get fired, and expect that the change will happen. No, you should go to your boss and talk to them about it. The Lindens are like the bosses in this game, and if it's that big of a problem, you should have talked to them first.

Brad Lupis is hereby officially declared wise beyond his post count.



And sorry Eggy, I leave discussions when people make them personal and start the insults.

Ama bows out.

I thank you for that Ama.

I just wanted to post to everyone so they don't get the wrong idea, (trust me, it's happened before to me, and this is only my 10th post),but Eggy does have a few good points about what he is saying. While I still don't agree with the whole Prim limit thing, and the way he went about wanting to get it, but I can understand where Eggy was coming from. He was hired as manager of the Alt-Zoom, and wanted to make it the best he could. I went to his event tonight (which was really cool by the way), and you can tell there is something odd going on in Da Boom. It's really slow for me, slower than usual, probably on account of so many prims in one area, or bad scripts running. And Eggy's got some good ideas for the Alt-Zoom too, if he is able to actually do them without reaching the Prim Limit for the sim. While I do understand his situation, as I said before, he could have gone about it another way.

I'm not blaming Eggy for anything, he's a nice guy, I met him for the first time tonight. But as I said before, Prim limits and not giving out stipends will cause more problems than they would solve. Stipends are there to keep the player playing, so they always have resources to build. And prim limits would put a serious damper on some peoples creativity (my house right now contains about 25-30 prims to get it to look the way I want it to). Overall, Eggy's just been misunderstood, and could have gone about what he was doing differently.

While it's true that certain users have rally pushed things in DaBoom, by having been overly frivolous with their builds, using way too many prims, and putting in subbasement levels crammed full of objects, it is also not fair to criticise the socializing of other residents when you spend most of your online time lurking in a ruined disco, barely seeing anyone.
There are entire MATURE sims that have been hogged up by single individuals, and until the Lindens either give us more or convert a few of the PG sims to MATURE, the situation isn't likely to get any better in DaBoom. Eggy maybe ought to think about moving to a four sim intersection anyway, to help with lag.

I think the main reason why Eggy doesn't want to move the Alt-Zoom is because it is a disco, and right now, it is in a mature sim. I think he, and the Lindens, may want to keep it in the mature area that way so they won't run into quite as many problems with patron of the disco. So I understand why Eggy can't, or won't move the Alt-Zoom.

There are plenty of other mature areas, though. It could be moved to Federal or Shipley or Hawthorne.

More Mature areas coming with the next batch of sims... check the resident life page and on the bottom right there is a link to a world map that shows all the new sims coming.....

JV

Except that a) none of those are in "central" locations and b) those of us that live there do so BECAUSE it's out-of-the way and suffers less lag than the central areas.

The disco, while a nice idea and a reasonably valuable attraction is certainly a NIMBY structure. (SimCity players will know the acronym.)

It's a landmark attraction that needs to be central, and also a NIMBY structure that certainly shouldn't be moved in next door to unsuspecting residents that thought they moved into a relatively peaceful neighborhood.

--
Grim

Gee I thought this thread would have been dead by now
Some minor additions:
The ONLY reason I ever posted anything about this was because the Lindens specifically TOLD me to post about it.
I had already comented with a couple Lindens on how I thought the economy needed tweaking and how there should be something to limit individual prim usage.
The Lindens seem to have thought about it before I ever posted, and are "looking into it", so dont blame ME if some new limitation arises in a future version.
I would LOVE to move the disco to a less crowded area, and I already thought of putting it across sim borders.
The Lindens are aware of the prim situation and are investigating this matter. Da Boom residents tell me they had already discussed the prim usage and lag several times with the Lindens, and so had I. It got much better after wiping accounts but the newly freed prim quota was rapidly filled up.
The people I have spoken to say that this prim overuse situation has lasted for quite some time which has forced them to cut down on their own prim usage long before I took over the disco.
I have been told that they would prefer not to move the disco anywhere (no reason given) but I got the feeling that it would be possible as a last resort.
As for the NIMBY situation, well the disco was already there.
I am, however, investigating the feasibility of making it so that no sound will be heard outside, and welcome your input.
You know, people, I dont bite, and if you want to talk to me about anything feel free to track me in-game or merely send an IM. I love chatting and meeting new peeps as much as the next guy

I live in Da Boom and what your saying is that you want to make it to where people can't create what they want to on there land they own. the person holding the prims is not telling you that you can't create on the land you buy. hes just discourageing you from building and buying land there. its working to isn't it no one will buy land in a place they can't build and since land taxes are way to high to buy enough of a sim and then build on that land. he has made sure hes allowed himself the prims to build what he wants to build.

A while back Da Boom hit max prim limits and the residents of Da Boom was told the sims was designed to house 30 builds how ever what good would sl be if we all lived in a cabin that we had when we started every home looking the exact same the creative side of sl would be killed not to mention a couch a bed and a table dang near puts you over the 333.33 prims per build since the prim limit is only 10,000. even the linden made prefab homes go over this ideal prim limit of 333.33 prims per build. we was also told that they wasn't going to raise the cap on prims in the sim this was back in beta. we was told "to either deal with it or move if we wanted to build." so i guess the same can be said here.

I know who is holding alot of the prims and i am behind him. taxes on land is way to expensive and the only way to assure yourself the prims is if you do hold them. some people want to build 3500 prim homes thats there right to do so. they play to build things they want to build not to look the exact same as every one else. sl would be a extreamly boring and bland place if everything looked the same.

the person holding them also talked to a linden about holding prims and he was told "while it might not be good in public eye there is no rule saying he can't do it to make sure he is able to build the way he wants to build." if there was such a rule SL wouldn't be as sucsessful due to the total lack of building options small cabin bed table 1 chair and your at your limit. why bother playing if you can't build things larger more extravagant? own to much land taxes kill you and you can't build anyways.

people play sl for many reasons and your trying to tell these people what they want to build is wrong. who made you the end all be all to make the decisions for the people in sl to decide what they can and cant build? simple fact is theres more land out there if you dont like how a sim is congested then you do not have to stay there. the lindens made this clear when they was approached when the issiue first came about.

i guess since i am suporting the person who is holding the prims that i might come off as a bad guy. but i must say "if you dont like the place feel free to move or wait till the prim useage drops to where you can build" i belive thats what the lindens told us when this first became a issiue i think its great that some one has assure himself the ability to build the home he wants to build. so if you want every one to have a limit of 333.33 prims to build there homes and you want every place to look the same the i would have to say your in the wrong game.

i love Leonardoe Murray's Fountain Skeedalee did a awsome job building it for him. i like his motorcycle he won at the route 66 raffle several weeks back. where he donated a ton of money to help out with the americana project to help others have fun. he has a right to display the things he dose like. dose these things bother you? i live in Da Boom and i kinda like seeing them myself.

i know i dont have the greatest grammer so forgive my spelling and grammer mistakes. but i do know one thing Leonardoe Murray is one of the nicest people i have meet in sl and there is nothing wrong with wanting to build the things you want to build. he is always there to help me when i need help. i am damn proud to have him as my neighbor.

As a resident of Daboom, I would personally hate to see the Disco be moved. Moving the disco, does not resolve any issues other than giving more prim space for what, a day or so? I have said this many times to u Eggy, I would help out to see that the disco be rebuilt. Heck, want me to put on my construction belt and hard hat? I can start hammerin away

Your Friend/Neighbor,

Cricket
aka- Bug

While I don't believe that there should be a prim limit, I do think that holding prims is wrong, in excess. While you can hold a few prims, if you know that's all you need, but hoarding a whole lot of prims is wrong. Part of the reason why taxes are so high is because the land is land that a lot of people want. If he doesn't like the fact that the taxes there are so high, then he can move. Move someplace where the taxes are quite so high. Don't make it so others can't build, that's just being selfish. 10,000 prims is alot, and i've flown over da boom, and there definatly is not more than 5,000 prims that you can see. Which means that someone, or a group of people are hoarding about 5000 prims. The other problem is the fact that Eggy can't move the disco, because it's the location they want the disco to be in. If you don't like the disco being that close to your homes, then move, because that disco is not moving.

It doesn't matter if you want to build some huge gigantic home or not, hoarding the prims is wrong no matter what, and that person (or group of people) is ruining the game for a lot of other people. That's why they are trying to add new sims, so people can build more. If you don't like the fact that you can't build your big castle in da boom, move your castle. The disco is a linden sponsered place, therefore, it's not going anywhere soon.

Ladies and gentlemen, we have ourselves a culprit.
I have acquired both testimonial and photographic evidence of Leonardoe Murray's object banking - feel free to snoop around his basement using the orbit and zoom tools to confirm my findings.
The Linden I spoke to, however, was not impressed, given that someone who was not named, possibly even a Linden, had already discovered and reported the stash.
It seems that he had been keeping the object usage up to 100% on purpose for a long time, and that this was not the first time he was found to be hoarding objects.
I hope Leonardoe has the moral integrity to delete his surplus objects voluntarily, and issue a well-deserved apology to his neighbours.
My conviction still stands that this should never have been possible in the first place, but I shall refrain from issuing further beatings to this long-deceased horse.
May Da Boom soon welcome many new residents and their rightful builds.

Well, what do you know, he has well over 1,000 primitives cached in his basement. Not that that excuses you for insisting we're all fools for disagreeing with your outrageous assertations about how we should all live the Spartan lifestyle, but you're right, he is hoarding.

Each one of those "Dining Room Chair, Cherry" objects contains 69 primitives, and there are 17 of them, for a grand total of 1,173 objects. Then we have the piano, the cage with 40 primitives, and a few other miscellaneous objects.

Now, here's the funny thing, Disco Alt-Zoom is constructed of a number of slabs, each roughly 2x3 meters. I checked last week. Why not 10x10? And what's the point of all those rafters up in the ceiling? Not that there's a ceiling to support, and not like it would have to worry about gravity in any event. Seems... inefficient, even extravagant, if you ask me. Odd that you should insist we live so humbly when you're in charge of taking care of a structure like that.

Anyway, I am told you are moving the disco to Blue. I look forward to seeing what you will do with it.

I didn't build the disco, Philip Linden did and the changes i made before deleting all of it actually saved a bunch of prims, and the changes I have planned for the mixmaster will cut down the number of prims to about 20% of what it was - there were actually more prims in the mixmaster than in the rest of the disco.
3 or 4 of those chairs would be sufficient to build the disco as it was, and my point was that a naive person who gets here with the expectation of having a huge, lavishly decorated house without ever worrying about resources, and so proceeds to build a victorian dining room with a $1000 table and 8 of those 69 prim chairs, is grossly misunderstanding the technical limits of this game, and the boundaries inside which he should be building in order to play nicely with his neighbours.
If you want to defend your right to create freely you should first of all understand that all other people have the right to create as well.
You cease to have rights and freedoms when they infringe on other people's rights and freedoms. If you overuse the object quota, banking or no banking, you are depriving other people of their right to build by exercising yours.
Put it this way. You are a team of 10 soldiers that gets fed through 5 crates, parachuted down to you by a chopper. Your hunger would be satiated by 1 full crate of food.
That is clearly not enough for everyone, there should be 10 crates instead of just 5, and if you are free to take however much you want, you will naturally take 1 full crate each, which makes the last 5 people to get to the crates very hungry and very unhappy, since the first 5 ate everything there was.
If you divide the food fairly, you will see that everyone should have half a crate, even though they all want more.
So if you take more than half a crate, you are condemning one of your friends to starvation, plain and simple.
This thread was never about art, beauty or creativity or whatever you got into your head that it was about, but rather about having fair distribution of resources among people.

I am a relative newbie, so I am not familiar with all the ways that resources are managed. I do pose this question, however : "If object hoarding is indeed considered a Bad Thing, then what sort of mechanism would one suggest to limit it?" So far, inspecting the neighbor's basement seems to be the only recourse one has. That seems to me to be a bit of a chore, especially considering we all pay to enjoy our Second Lives. Snooping through the neighbor's belongings does not have much appeal to me as a recreational activity.

Fortunately, I do not reside in a sim where it is an issue, but I will say this, and perhaps it will attract the attention of the Lindens : Had I, as a newbie during the 5 day trial, bought land in DaBoom and found that I was unable to build anything, you would not currently be billing my credit card. I would have known nothing about prim counts at that time, much less the evils of object hoarding. While it has been pointed out by many in this forum that 100% object usage is not the norm, I doubt I would have researched the matter. My first impression would have been that the game needed a lot of work and I would have canceled my account.

Obviously, some sort of limit must be imposed, but how? Eggy's suggestion that one's ability to create prims should be tied to land ownership seems reasonable to me. Then again I am, for the most part, a newbie. It does seem that it would be preferable to find a solution to this apparant design flaw now, while it is not a major problem, rather than after it becomes one.

Humbly,
Antagonistic Protagonist

I have to agree with the limitationist. Prims hoarding is a tax evasion process. So rich folks will hoard just as in real life. I really don't care how much money Bill Gates has (really) but if him having all that money restricted my access to gasoline and I could not drive my car any more I would care. The issue is limited server resources. If the rich folks are not only rich but controlling what their neighbors can do..that is unfair. If there were limits let the rich folks own more than one home in different sims ..10 for all I care as long as the size of their wallet does not unfairly effec t other peoples right to build.
just my 2 cents