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mmm mmm Christian Coalition Founder Hypocrisy!

Leilany LaFollette
Not old, just older
Join date: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 686
09-04-2005 22:03
From: Kiamat Dusk
Yes, we're terrified that they may turn to other sources of revenue besides cocaine and that they might stop flooding across our borders illegally. My goodness! Just think of all the chaos! I mean, who would do all the work that "even blacks don't want to do"?

-Kiamat Dusk


Wow... this little paragraph is filled with so much ignorance I don't know where to start. Other sources of revenue besides cocaine? You mean like oil, emeralds, aluminum, etc.? So if not terrified (I'm assuming you're being sarcastic there), then why the need to butt in? Why not let everybody live however they choose to instead of following a model somebody else thinks is best? Land of the free? Who gets to pick who's *free* and who's not? If you don't like cocaine, stop buying it. If you don't like illegal immigration, pour some more money into HS so they can patrol borders and take care of the problem. How about some logical solutions to the real problems instead of acting like a talking monkey and eliminating what you don't like regardless of the consequences? And your reference to *work even blacks won't do* is so racist and disgusting, it just reeks of ignorance.
Kiamat Dusk
Protest Warrior
Join date: 30 Sep 2004
Posts: 1,525
09-04-2005 22:13
From: Leilany LaFollette
Wow... this little paragraph is filled with so much ignorance I don't know where to start. Other sources of revenue besides cocaine? You mean like oil, emeralds, aluminum, etc.? So if not terrified (I'm assuming you're being sarcastic there), then why the need to butt in? Why not let everybody live however they choose to instead of following a model somebody else thinks is best? Land of the free? Who gets to pick who's *free* and who's not? If you don't like cocaine, stop buying it. If you don't like illegal immigration, pour some more money into HS so they can patrol borders and take care of the problem. How about some logical solutions to the real problems instead of acting like a talking monkey and eliminating what you don't like regardless of the consequences? And your reference to *work even blacks won't do* is so racist and disgusting, it just reeks of ignorance.


"[jobs] not even blacks want" -Vicente Fox President of Mexico.
http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/05/14/fox.jackson/
A quote which Louis Farrakhan, head of the Nation of Islam agrees with.
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2005/8/15/111034.shtml

Now, being half black myself, I must admit, that while I can see Farrakhan's point (God help me), I think the tone of the statement is what makes it come off racist. But then, I'm not a big Vicente Fox fan, either.

So...you were saying something about ignorance? And if the emerald and aluminum business is going so well, why do illegals continue to pour into our country by the hundreds everyday. Moreover, I resent your implication that I buy cocaine. Lastly, if you'd bother to read all of my previous posts and the accompanying links, you'd see exactly why I feel we should be concerned with Mr. Chavez.

-Kiamat Dusk
Being Conservative Means Never Having To Say "I Surrender"...
_____________________
"My pain is constant and sharp and I do not hope for a better world for anyone. In fact I want my pain to be inflicted on others. I want no one to escape." -Bret Easton Ellis 'American Psycho'

"Anger is a gift." -RATM "Freedom"

From: Vares Solvang
Eat me, you vile waste of food.
(Can you spot the irony?)

http://writing.com/authors/suffer
Mickey Valentino
Disciple of the Watch
Join date: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 230
09-04-2005 23:30
From: Kiamat Dusk

So when you have a man like Hugo Chavez, a Socialist, a man with close ties to Cuba, China, and Iran of all places, calling America the "most savage, cruel and murderous empire that has existed in the history of the world", it's time to take notice. Or at least call him the liar he is.


At least the socialists don't force themselves down the throats of any country out there not directly in line with their own way of life and beliefs. *ahem*

Chavez has been called the George Washington of South America and with just cause. Currently there is a union of sorts that has begun in South America,to bring the country under one currency and to bring the country together. Perhaps in time even under one flag. Something the powers that be in the U.S. fear. Much like when Argentina rose to prominence and became a strong economical force not so many years ago and the U.S. decided to strategically assassinate their president and plummet their economy into chaos. I'm sure many of you know of that fiasco.

We have a LONG record of interferring with the politics of other countries and the record shows that it has not been for self preservation but to destabilize other countries so we can remain on top.

Mexico, Central America as well as South America are a strong economical force especially if they band together. Their current "union" plans are not simply with South America, but Italy, China, France, Germany and a few other countries.

Chavez was kidnapped some years ago and after days of people rioting in the streets, shutting down the coutries economy for days and demanding his return, he conveniently "materialized" outside a .. *gasp* U.S. Military base. He is one of the few leaders in the world with the balls to call B.S. on the U.S. something very few politicians have the testicular fortitude to do now days.

During the massive flood that cost tens of thousands of Venezuelan lives in the 80's he refused U.S. aid, embarrassing our administration (I applaud this action) but accepted the help of England, Russia, France and other countries who did not demand rights to build a military base to keep a "presence" in the region after the rebuilding.

The poor people in his country proclaim him a hero, while the rich continually plot to remove him. To me he sounds more like the hero we so desperately need here in our own country, where corporations hold more sway than the CITIZENS who work for them.

Our days are numbered I fear and by the time we realize the grand scale of the deception our leaders have pulled over our eyes, it will be far too late to make the change necessary to save this great nation my forefathers fought and died for.


As for his bedfellows, close ties to Cuba, thats awesome, one of the MOST medically advanced countries in the world, with THE LOWEST illiteracy rate and free higher education for the people with the aptitude for it. If we'd pay attention long enough, maybe we could learn a thing or two from them!!

Ties to China, Bravo!! What better place to build economical ties than with one of the most populated countries in the world! Thats just good business sense and if you think all South America has to offer is drugs then I suggest you do some reading and educate yourself in facts.

I often wonder what we're going to do when the rest of the world decides to start crossing our borders and bombing, burning and spraying the worlds most poisonous drug which we distribute worldwide.. Tobacco, it kills more than ANY drug in the world and all the drugs combined only kill around 40% of the total tobaco does.

I have no comments on Iran as the mess we are about to start there will be the straw that breaks the camels back, because we cannot fight a war on so many fronts, we are still very much in a quagmire in Afghanistan still, and with the large amounts of "aid" we give many countries (more accurately called bribes) to follow our "lead". Our economy is about to go belly up as is and there isn't anything thats going to save it.. at least in this administrations term or likely the next 10.

I love the ideals of what America stands for, its just that we have gotten so far off track in the last 40-50 years and it is quickly becoming an oppressive monster spouting about freedom and democracy while enforcing itself on all who differ. Which is alot like a Christian leader condoning murder/assassinaton.
_____________________
I would rather have a mind opened by wonder than one closed by belief
--Gerry Spence

These are very sad times to be an American but where is the rage among the citizenry? Where are the flag wavers who so laud the freedoms symbolized by a flag and written by quill pens in our constitution? Why are we not rallying in the streets against this sort of attrocity? Why because we are gluttonous lazy bastards who say it won't happen to me so who cares. --Ishtar Pasteur
Leilany LaFollette
Not old, just older
Join date: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 686
09-04-2005 23:31
From: Kiamat Dusk

So...you were saying something about ignorance?


Oh yes, you can post links! :D

From: Kiamat Dusk
And if the emerald and aluminum business is going so well, why do illegals continue to pour into our country by the hundreds everyday.


Ever heard of poverty?

From: Kiamat Dusk
Moreover, I resent your implication that I buy cocaine.


Did you also think when I said *you should pour more money into HS if illegals crossing the borders bother you* I meant *you, Kiamat Dusk*? Sorry, I'll try to explain myself better the next time...

From: Kiamat Dusk
Lastly, if you'd bother to read all of my previous posts and the accompanying links, you'd see exactly why I feel we should be concerned with Mr. Chavez.


Yes, because he's a prick and has said crappy things about the US :rolleyes: That's an excellent reason! He must be dealt with, regardless of the consequences :rolleyes: You know, if every time somebody out there thought Bush was a prick and had said some crappy things about other countries, you wouldn't be posting right now...


:rolleyes:
Kiamat Dusk
Protest Warrior
Join date: 30 Sep 2004
Posts: 1,525
09-04-2005 23:50
From: Mickey Valentino
At least the socialists don't force themselves down the throats of any country out there not directly in line with their own way of life and beliefs. *ahem*



Really? I think the Tibetans would tend to disagree. And how *did* we get the Soviet Union again? Did all those countries just sign on to be part of the USSR?

-Kiamat Dusk
_____________________
"My pain is constant and sharp and I do not hope for a better world for anyone. In fact I want my pain to be inflicted on others. I want no one to escape." -Bret Easton Ellis 'American Psycho'

"Anger is a gift." -RATM "Freedom"

From: Vares Solvang
Eat me, you vile waste of food.
(Can you spot the irony?)

http://writing.com/authors/suffer
Kiamat Dusk
Protest Warrior
Join date: 30 Sep 2004
Posts: 1,525
09-04-2005 23:52
From: Leilany LaFollette
You know, if every time somebody out there thought Bush was a prick and had said some crappy things about other countries, you wouldn't be posting right now...


:rolleyes:



What!? :confused:
_____________________
"My pain is constant and sharp and I do not hope for a better world for anyone. In fact I want my pain to be inflicted on others. I want no one to escape." -Bret Easton Ellis 'American Psycho'

"Anger is a gift." -RATM "Freedom"

From: Vares Solvang
Eat me, you vile waste of food.
(Can you spot the irony?)

http://writing.com/authors/suffer
Kiamat Dusk
Protest Warrior
Join date: 30 Sep 2004
Posts: 1,525
09-04-2005 23:57
From: Mickey Valentino


As for his bedfellows, close ties to Cuba, thats awesome, one of the MOST medically advanced countries in the world, with THE LOWEST illiteracy rate and free higher education for the people with the aptitude for it. If we'd pay attention long enough, maybe we could learn a thing or two from them!!

Ties to China, Bravo!! What better place to build economical ties than with one of the most populated countries in the world! Thats just good business sense and if you think all South America has to offer is drugs then I suggest you do some reading and educate yourself in facts.


Trust a Liberal to find the silver lining in a brutal, repressive dictatorship. I suppose a high literacy rate makes up for everything, huh? Hey, did you know that Saddam Hussein was elected with 100% of the vote? And China...well I could spend all day on their government, but it'd be pointless because Liberals know that every dictator has a heart of gold.

-Kiamat Dusk
PS: OK, I'm going to stop now seeing as we've totally hijacked Hiro's post. :p
_____________________
"My pain is constant and sharp and I do not hope for a better world for anyone. In fact I want my pain to be inflicted on others. I want no one to escape." -Bret Easton Ellis 'American Psycho'

"Anger is a gift." -RATM "Freedom"

From: Vares Solvang
Eat me, you vile waste of food.
(Can you spot the irony?)

http://writing.com/authors/suffer
Mickey Valentino
Disciple of the Watch
Join date: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 230
Luis Posada Carriles
09-05-2005 00:04
From: Kiamat Dusk
We should deal with other countries' politics when those politics directly and negatively effect ours or human rights in general. For example we have a vested security and financial interest in a stable South America. Chavez is doing his best to destabilize the region and stir up anti-American sentiment.

-Kiamat Dusk


I think we do enough to stir Anti-American sentiment by going all over the world killing "terrorists" and fighting a "War on Terror" yet when we turn up a terrorist in our own country we refuse to extradite him and protect him.

Huh?!? What is this blasphemy I speak of?
LUIS POSADA CARRILES

http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB153/

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/05/17/posada.arrest/

http://newsfromrussia.com/world/2005/05/11/59675.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4201266.stm

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=05/07/27/1422236 (God Bless Texas)

http://www.nbc6.net/news/4908512/detail.html?subid=10101481

(To help get people up to speed)


Pretty much has a smoking gun in his hand for bringing down an entire airliner and killing more than a hundred people as well as several other terrorist activities. The two affected countries have been trying for months now to get him extradicted but for some reason.. we have not. Hell our media only barely reported on it, but the rest of the world was stirred up for weeks.

P.S. Hehe Sorry Einstein but I am definately not a liberal despite how you may want to paint me. Besides simply slapping at me with a "label" somehow meant to discredit my post probably isn't going to go very far w. the educated masses. Nice try though. Its not so much about oppression as it is about poverty. For some reason I keep wanting to bring up Bay of Pigs and the little submarine that couldn't story. *shrug*
_____________________
I would rather have a mind opened by wonder than one closed by belief
--Gerry Spence

These are very sad times to be an American but where is the rage among the citizenry? Where are the flag wavers who so laud the freedoms symbolized by a flag and written by quill pens in our constitution? Why are we not rallying in the streets against this sort of attrocity? Why because we are gluttonous lazy bastards who say it won't happen to me so who cares. --Ishtar Pasteur
Kiamat Dusk
Protest Warrior
Join date: 30 Sep 2004
Posts: 1,525
09-05-2005 00:08
Everything I've seen on this makes me agree that he should be extradited ASAP. It's what we would want in return.

-Kiamat Dusk
...no, really, that was the last post-I swear...
_____________________
"My pain is constant and sharp and I do not hope for a better world for anyone. In fact I want my pain to be inflicted on others. I want no one to escape." -Bret Easton Ellis 'American Psycho'

"Anger is a gift." -RATM "Freedom"

From: Vares Solvang
Eat me, you vile waste of food.
(Can you spot the irony?)

http://writing.com/authors/suffer
Mickey Valentino
Disciple of the Watch
Join date: 11 Jan 2004
Posts: 230
09-05-2005 00:10
<3
_____________________
I would rather have a mind opened by wonder than one closed by belief
--Gerry Spence

These are very sad times to be an American but where is the rage among the citizenry? Where are the flag wavers who so laud the freedoms symbolized by a flag and written by quill pens in our constitution? Why are we not rallying in the streets against this sort of attrocity? Why because we are gluttonous lazy bastards who say it won't happen to me so who cares. --Ishtar Pasteur
Blueman Steele
Registered User
Join date: 28 Dec 2004
Posts: 1,038
Atheists in SL
09-05-2005 00:50
From: Einsman Schlegel
Athiests unite! Ooooo this won't end well in Bush world. :D


I think the number if Atheists *e before i btw* is rather high in SL
Csven Concord
*
Join date: 19 Mar 2005
Posts: 1,015
09-05-2005 07:49
From: Kiamat Dusk
If I was British I'd say that British interests and security come first and so on and so forth. So, no, the Chinese government has no right to be meddling in our affairs....even though they do...hypocrites.


So is what you're saying... if I'm Chinese and I use your logic that my "interests and security come first and so on and so forth", that I can therefore turn around and say: "no, the [American] government has no right to be meddling in our affairs....even though they do...hypocrites"?

And if I take that position - the right to place my own security first above the sovereign rights of others - to be a kind of universal truth (along the lines of "we hold these truths to be self evident";), is it not then true that every country can take the same relative point of view?

Furthermore, if America is to proclaim itself as it frequently does a) an "example" for the rest of the world, b) a bastion of fairness and equality, c) a non-Imperial superpower, then how do we avoid the "do as I say not as I do" syndrome if the answers to my above questions effectively proclaim that we are unique (i.e. royalty) in that we can unilaterally behave as we see fit?
Csven Concord
*
Join date: 19 Mar 2005
Posts: 1,015
09-05-2005 08:46
From: Kiamat Dusk
And the idea that ignoring countries and groups who continually bash us and malign us is what gets planes flown into buildings. We cannot afford to let anti-American sentiment fester. Don't give me that bleeding heart, give hugs not guns garbage, either. America pumps billions of dollars in *aid*, not just oil revenues, into the Middle East and where has that gotten us? 9/11, that's where.


Aren't there two kinds of "ignore"? And isn't one of those kinds ignoring the situations in those countries which our involvement helped to create? Have the lives of the average people in the Middle East improved since America started paying such close attention to that part of the world? Has the disparity between wealth and poverty increased or decreased since we inserted ourselves in their affairs? How is it that a company like Halliburton can operate in Iran now to make money for the wealthy, when average citizens aren't permitted the freedom to travel there (or to other parts of the world)? What does this say about our country?

Furthermore, when you say "billions of dollars in *aid*", can you break that down? Isn't it true that there are at least two kinds of *aid*, and one kind - most often the biggest kind - is actually nothing more than guaranteed loans to purchase high-ticket weapons systems from American arms merchants? Does this kind of *aid* not benefit America in return - in the same way a credit card company benefits? they are profitable, no? And which country sells the most weapons in the world? In addition, does not our military *aid* to Saudi Arabia lower the price we pay for the oil they ship to us according the DOE? Is this not the reason we support a Monarchy which lives in luxury while their subjects live in poverty and women's rights are among the worst in the world?

From: Kiamat Dusk
So when you have a man like Hugo Chavez, a Socialist, a man with close ties to Cuba, China, and Iran of all places, calling America the "most savage, cruel and murderous empire that has existed in the history of the world", it's time to take notice. Or at least call him the liar he is.


Perhaps Chavez was referring to the U.S. being the only country in history to have used atomic weapons on an effectively defenseless civilian population (regardless of whether that was right or wrong)? Are you sure to what he was referring? Or are you assuming? After all, isn't the U.S. a mix of capitalism and socialism... just like Venezuela? And have you even been to Venezuela? I have. Given the confidence in your comments, I have to assume you've been there as well, so let me then ask: would you like to live in the zones outside a wealthy oil center like Caracas? I wouldn't. And because you've certainly seen this first-hand, doubtlessly you've given considerable thought to how you would fix a system that was so broken by capitalist corruption it allowed those conditions to exist. Did you share your solution with anyone before Chavez came along and began implementing his own solution?

And if bombastic rhetoric is sufficient for the U.S. to assassinate a democratically-elected leader, would not some people in the U.S. consider the rhetoric from our own president to be similarly off-base? Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't President Bush imply in his nationally-televised State of the Union address that there was reliable evidence of Iraq purchasing uranium in Africa and this was cause for dire action? Wasn't the administration certain ("no doubt";) that Iraq was using aluminum tubes to build centrifuges for weapon-grade uranium processing, when U.N. reports and analysis from the prior year not only backed up the claims of the Iraqi's, but did so with overwhelming evidence that made perfectly clear sense? And have not investigators since found that the aluminum tubes simply cannot be used as alleged because the material properties of the aluminum (since tested) would not even permit their use in a centrifuge? And did not the U.S. administrator making these claims later admit he was wrong (which was no surprise since he has no technical qualifications in the matter whatsoever)? Didn't Colin Powell show blurry images on a satellite photo and proclaim them during his U.N. speech to be "mobile biological weapons platforms" (or something like that) but which have since been determined to have been constructed by the British (last I read) and used for rather mundane purposes like sending up targetting balloons? the biological traces actually nothing more than evidence that poorly-trained conscripts running these mobile labs used urine instead of water to generate the gas for the balloons? Didn't the administration claim - and inform the American public - that war was a last resort when in fact evidence indicates (as do recently disclosed British documents) that the government's intention to invade was established the previous year? Should I go on with all the deceit heaped upon the American public by its own government which should tell all of us "it's time to take notice. Or at least call him the liar he is"? Were we not told invading Iraq was a matter of imminent national security? And did not the architect of our policy, Paul Wolfowitz, admit that weapons of mass destruction were not the primary reason for invasion - but that establishing a democracy in the Middle East was the real reason?

And now that we're in the "Mission Accomplished" mess that our fearless(?) leader led us into, do you now support the draft? Or is it better for the military to be the employer of the lower classes so that the wealthy and their offspring can get out of defending the nation that makes their wealth possible?
Chip Midnight
ate my baby!
Join date: 1 May 2003
Posts: 10,231
09-05-2005 09:10
From: Csven Concord
if America is to proclaim itself as it frequently does a) an "example" for the rest of the world, b) a bastion of fairness and equality, c) a non-Imperial superpower, then how do we avoid the "do as I say not as I do" syndrome if the answers to my above questions effectively proclaim that we are unique (i.e. royalty) in that we can unilaterally behave as we see fit?


It all makes sense when you include d) god likes us best. :p
_____________________

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