Blizzard to GLBT groups - "stay in the closet"
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Ordinal Malaprop
really very ordinary
Join date: 9 Sep 2005
Posts: 4,607
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01-30-2006 10:33
Interesting story about GLBT groups in WoW, and Blizzard's attitude towards them....From: someone Sara Andrews thought it was a big misunderstanding when she received an e-mail from a game master in Blizzard Entertainment's popular online role playing game "World of Warcraft" citing her for "Harassment - Sexual Orientation."
Andrews had posted that she was recruiting for a "GLBT friendly" guild in a general chat channel within the game.
Believing that her notice had been accidentally flagged, she e-mailed Blizzard to correct the problem. Blizzard, to Andrews' surprise, upheld the decision...
...The response from Blizzard was, "While we appreciate and understand your point of view, we do feel that the advertisement of a 'GLBT friendly' guild is very likely to result in harassment for players that may not have existed otherwise. If you will look at our policy, you will notice the suggested penalty for violating the Sexual Orientation Harassment Policy is to 'be temporarily suspended from the game.' However, as there was clearly no malicious intent on your part, this penalty was reduced to a warning."
Blizzard's stance was clear that recruiting for a guild using "GLBT" was inappropriate as, the company said, it may "incite certain responses in other players that will allow for discussion that we feel has no place in our game." though apparently they also said, at a later date (perhaps realising that the above might be seen as a bit pathetic): From: someone "We have determined that advertising sexual orientation is not appropriate for the high fantasy setting of the World of Warcraft and is therefore not permitted" which, frankly, is rather pathetic too, given that the only reason people seem to want to set them up is because of homophobic comments made in-game; a slight double standard there, even if you didn't think it smelled of "we need a better excuse, and quick". It looks to me like they've been thinking that any group advertising itself as GLBT-friendly is going to be trolled or griefed or whatever the term is in WoW, which might cause the staff bother. No GLBT groups, no trolling, so no problem, right? Er, well, no, not really.
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Lucifer Baphomet
Postmodern Demon
Join date: 8 Sep 2005
Posts: 1,771
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01-30-2006 10:37
Maybe its time i bumped my WOW should be closed poll, but in seriousness this time.
Blizzard sound like a bunch of homophobic f***tards
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Maeve Morgan
ZOMG Resmod!
Join date: 2 Apr 2004
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01-30-2006 10:44
I don't think it's right but I can see Blizzard's point. Their target audience is teenage boys, a lot of older people play but teenagers have huge amounts of disposable incame in our society, and they are really dumb. In any major city, general chat has some little moron going "OMG U R teh gay" every 3 or 4 minutes. Also a lot of parents would have a cow if they thought their precious babies were around gay people, cause you know all gay people are pedophiles.  So I can see how they would want to squash this, doesn't make it right, but makes sense to them.
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Lucifer Baphomet
Postmodern Demon
Join date: 8 Sep 2005
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01-30-2006 10:48
From: Maeve Morgan I don't think it's right but I can see Blizzard's point. Their target audience is teenage boys, a lot of older people play but teenagers have huge amounts of disposable incame in our society, and they are really dumb. In any major city, general chat has some little moron going "OMG U R teh gay" every 3 or 4 minutes. Also a lot of parents would have a cow if they thought their precious babies were around gay people, cause you know all gay people are pedophiles. So I can see how they would want to squash this, doesn't make it right, but makes sense to them. As im aware, WOW runs parallel worlds on various servers, why cant they then create 18+ only servers, and ones for minors, rather than caving in to stubid teenagers, and their equally stupid homophibic parents
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Eggy Lippmann
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01-30-2006 10:48
While I fully support LGBT movements, from a strictly business-oriented POV, it makes a lot of sense. Preemptively avoiding controversial issues cuts down on support costs... in a social context like that of "middle America", flaunting your lifestyle would be akin to trolling (and could be very hazardous to your health if done IRL).
From the POV of social evolution, we definitely want people to flaunt the crap out of it. It is only through a gradual and continuous exposure to these issues that we can ever hope to get radical conservatives properly desensitized and tolerant of worldviews radically opposed to their own.
But Blizzard is a business, and they are within their right to do this. I don't think the american government should allow it, but as long as regressive conservatives have the majority vote, it's going to be like this.
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Lucifer Baphomet
Postmodern Demon
Join date: 8 Sep 2005
Posts: 1,771
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01-30-2006 10:49
I know Eggy, its sad 
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Krittle Kolache
???
Join date: 6 Oct 2005
Posts: 56
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01-30-2006 10:54
From: Ordinal Malaprop Blizzard's stance was clear that recruiting for a guild using "GLBT" was inappropriate as, the company said, it may "incite certain responses in other players that will allow for discussion that we feel has no place in our game." This is an absolutely ridiculous statement and it makes WoW look like they're trying to justify their own homophobia. Anything a player uses as a means to recruit to a guild has the possiblity of inciting harassing responses from other players. I have some friends who play WoW who have tried to convince me to play. I've thought about checking it out, but now there's no way in hell I'm going to play their game. |
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Reitsuki Kojima
Witchhunter
Join date: 27 Jan 2004
Posts: 5,328
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01-30-2006 10:57
From: Eggy Lippmann While I fully support LGBT movements, from a strictly business-oriented POV, it makes a lot of sense. Preemptively avoiding controversial issues cuts down on support costs... in a social context like that of "middle America", flaunting your lifestyle would be akin to trolling (and could be very hazardous to your health if done IRL).
From the POV of social evolution, we definitely want people to flaunt the crap out of it. It is only through a gradual and continuous exposure to these issues that we can ever hope to get radical conservatives properly desensitized and tolerant of worldviews radically opposed to their own.
But Blizzard is a business, and they are within their right to do this. I don't think the american government should allow it, but as long as regressive conservatives have the majority vote, it's going to be like this. More or less what eggy says here, with the caveat that I don't think the government should step in. It's a bitter pill to swallow for me, but I'm still playing WoW, gay and all... I can understand why they did it. I wouldn't have done the same, maybe, but I can also see situations that I might have acted the say way they did, on other issues, so...
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Eggy Lippmann
Wiktator
Join date: 1 May 2003
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01-30-2006 11:07
From: Reitsuki Kojima More or less what eggy says here, with the caveat that I don't think the government should step in.
It's a bitter pill to swallow for me, but I'm still playing WoW, gay and all... I can understand why they did it. I wouldn't have done the same, maybe, but I can also see situations that I might have acted the say way they did, on other issues, so... While I don't like governmental control and repressive/authoritarian attitudes, people have DIED because of the friction between conservative people and LGBTs. In soviet Canuckistan, I believe speaking out against LGBT and racial/ethnical minorities can constitute a hate crime and get you in jail. At least I think someone was recently imprisoned for positing that the Holocaust never existed? So I definitely think we need a concerted anti-discrimination effort to empower LGBTs with the right to flaunt it as much as they want to. |
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Michael Seraph
Second Life Resident
Join date: 9 Nov 2004
Posts: 849
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01-30-2006 11:24
I just cancelled my WoW account. I never complained about the constant anti-gay chatter when playing, I figured live and let live, but to turn the rules around and go after somebody for this is just stupid. They'll get a phone call from me too.
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Taco Rubio
also quite creepy
Join date: 15 Feb 2004
Posts: 3,349
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01-30-2006 11:26
From: Michael Seraph I just cancelled my WoW account. I never complained about the constant anti-gay chatter when playing, I figured live and let live, but to turn the rules around and go after somebody for this is just stupid. They'll get a phone call from me too. Good for you, Michael! I'm very anxious to hear what you're told when you call, please share it with us?
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Surreal Farber
Cat Herder
Join date: 5 Feb 2004
Posts: 2,059
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01-30-2006 11:36
I'm not interested in playing WOW (currently in Dungeon & Dragons Online beta), however, it is possible for guild to quietly enforce behavior standards. The guild I was in Matrix Online required people to act like adults, and the guild officers never hesitated to tell people what kinds of comments would get you booted out of the guild. Sometimes I felt like Mom, which sucked. 
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Eboni Khan
Misanthrope
Join date: 17 Mar 2004
Posts: 2,133
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01-30-2006 11:45
There is a gay SLer and WoW player who in Battlegrounds the other day said "stop that homo Paladin", do they get to play their gay card and get a free pass or should they be suspended?
Honestly there is really no need for a GLBT guild in WoW. I'm not sure why people feel the need ot have one. I'm not looking all over the internet for the Black L33t guild. This is a larger issue with minority groups and self segregation and expectations of speical treament which is another topic all together.
I'm really not sure if any of this has any place in a high fantasy world. I really don't want RL in my WoW play. I might was well just log into SL if I want to deal with RL crap.
I imagine if you are in the Oz guild (unless these are PvE guilds) that a lot of people have them on KOS, and enjoy campng them.
The racism in WoW against Asians is a larger problem that needs to be addressed. Chinese Farmer is the new "n-word".
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Ordinal Malaprop
really very ordinary
Join date: 9 Sep 2005
Posts: 4,607
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01-30-2006 12:22
From: Eboni Khan I'm not looking all over the internet for the Black L33t guild. You might if "n*gger" was used regularly as a random term of abuse, any moderators didn't seem to care and if you ever pulled anyone up on it they said "n*gger doesn't mean 'black' any more it just means 'thief', im not racist, dont be such an african". "RL crap" isn't kept out of WoW, and it's not the fault of people who try to create groups that aren't full of arseholes. |
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Eboni Khan
Misanthrope
Join date: 17 Mar 2004
Posts: 2,133
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01-30-2006 12:45
From: Ordinal Malaprop You might if "n*gger" was used regularly as a random term of abuse, any moderators didn't seem to care and if you ever pulled anyone up on it they said "n*gger doesn't mean 'black' any more it just means 'thief', im not racist, dont be such an african". I have read the above 4 times and it make no logical sense. Can I have a translation please? Also I have been in barrens where there were nothing but black people are thieves and all live on welfare comments were being spewed. The solution was really simple. Report, then /igrnore. This is the internet and a game, you don't have to deal with some asshat, you can ignore them and move on. This weekend in battlegrounds I didn't do what some jerk thought I should have done ( I know my role) and he accused me of not speaking english. I politely asked him to stop being prejudice and makeing comments not based in fact just because I didn't do exactly what he wanted when he wanted (did I miss a sheep? who knows. I have no idea I was even near the guy) and he didn't he kept on commenting, so I reported him and put him on ignore. Won the game and life went on. Seriously. This isn't like being beat to the death on the street because you walked out the Blue Oyster and soul kissed another man. This is the internet /ignore and move on. I am not going to let some idiot ruin my game. |
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Burke Prefect
Cafe Owner, Superhero
Join date: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 2,785
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01-30-2006 12:56
I like seeing people who can't cope with being losers, so they try to make other people feel like bigger losers. "OMG U R GHEY", etc, etc. Of course, being a antisocial freak of nature who does tech support for a living, I try to be non-biased and hate indivual people based on their actions and 'who they are'. Douchebags come in all colors.
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Ordinal Malaprop
really very ordinary
Join date: 9 Sep 2005
Posts: 4,607
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01-30-2006 12:58
It makes sense to me. "Gay" and various related terms are randomly used as terms of generic abuse online, and moderators in WoW don't seem to do much about it. In many cases if you say "don't use that homophobic language" you'll get a baffled response, with people saying "gay doesn't mean homosexual any more it means lame, get a life" when quite clearly "gay" does mean homosexual and the simultaneous use of it to mean "lame" is homophobic. I was just reflecting your analogy.
I tend to ignore idiots online more often than not but really - why should people? If someone is going to be an abusive tool why should it be the onus of the target of their abuse to put up with it? And quite apart from that, if Blizzard decide to actively prevent people from simply trying to establish a safe space, not even trying to change what others say outside of it, that's just inexcusable.
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Eboni Khan
Misanthrope
Join date: 17 Mar 2004
Posts: 2,133
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01-30-2006 13:04
From: Ordinal Malaprop I tend to ignore idiots online more often than not but really - why should people? If someone is going to be an abusive tool why should it be the onus of the target of their abuse to put up with it? And quite apart from that, if Blizzard decide to actively prevent people from simply trying to establish a safe space, not even trying to change what others say outside of it, that's just inexcusable. Do you even play WoW? General chat is not moderated. You can leave the profanity filter on but that is it. If someone says something offensive, report them. They take reports seriously and act on them quickly. If someone is recruiting for a GLBT guild on a RP or RP-PVP, server, I am reporting them becaause they are breaking the rules. |
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Ordinal Malaprop
really very ordinary
Join date: 9 Sep 2005
Posts: 4,607
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01-30-2006 13:08
I know general chat is not moderated (how could it be?) but apparently people aren't happy with the way moderators, by which I mean "staff who deal with complaints", deal with homophobic insults. And they see the need for groups which quite clearly say "we don't tolerate that sort of thing in the group". And then Blizzard stop them from even mentioning it.
Doesn't sound exactly fair to me.
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Pendari Lorentz
Senior Member
Join date: 5 Sep 2003
Posts: 4,372
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01-30-2006 13:22
Had I not already left that game due to the boring high end content, I would have left after seeing this. How very sad. |
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Ghoti Nyak
καλλιστι
Join date: 7 Aug 2004
Posts: 2,078
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01-30-2006 13:28
From: someone "We have determined that advertising sexual orientation is not appropriate for the high fantasy setting of the World of Warcraft and is therefore not permitted" Well, they got the 'high' part right, anyway. -Ghoti
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Neehai Zapata
Unofficial Parent
Join date: 8 Apr 2004
Posts: 1,970
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01-30-2006 16:25
From: someone The racism in WoW against Asians is a larger problem that needs to be addressed. Chinese Farmer is the new "n-word". This is true. My name in WoW is the same here, Neehai. I made the name when I played a Tarutaru in FFXI who was "Knee High". I am a white boy from North Carolina. (Okay, I am a white middle aged man. Thanks for rubbing it in!) It is amazing how many time I am called gook in this game. As for wanting to be in a gay guild. I sometimes like hangig out and talking with people like me. Gay people must seek out their tribe in this world. It is not as apparent as it is for others. Sometimes I just want to talk to other guys about how cute so and so is, or sucking cock or some such crap. With the heterosexual population around, that can be kind of hard. At the same time, I get sick of gay people. That's probably why I'm not in a gay guild. 
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Neehai Zapata
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01-30-2006 16:25
From: someone "We have determined that advertising sexual orientation is not appropriate for the high fantasy setting of the World of Warcraft and is therefore not permitted" Oh yea, like people who play WoW actually have sex.
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Mulch Ennui
15 Minutes are Over
Join date: 22 May 2005
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01-30-2006 16:26
From: Neehai Zapata Oh yea, like people who play WoW actually have sex. hey!
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Neehai Zapata
Unofficial Parent
Join date: 8 Apr 2004
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01-30-2006 16:28
I should have exaplained my last statement a little better.
Oh yea, like people who play WoW actually have sex...with other people.
I have also read that Blizzard is pretty uniform in their enforcement of the policy. For instance, a Christian guild would receive the same treatment.
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