Harp Seal Cull - So wrong in so many ways

Please find it in your heart to read this site:

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines06/0319-07.htm

I have been in opposition of this practice since my early teens, and it appalls me that it is still going on in such prolific numbers today. If you care at all, please read the site.

Harp seal pups are cute and fuzzy and should not be slaughtered for food or fur...

Excerpts from site:
"[Canadian] Ministers have already authorised the slaughter of 325,000 baby harp seals, the second highest number ever. It will be the third successive year in which more than 300,000 of the cubs have been clubbed and shot; by the end of the cull, the death toll since 2004 will top a million."

"METHOD Seal cubs are clubbed to death or shot, many while still conscious. A veterinarian report in 2001 found that almost half of the seals it examined seemed to have been conscious when skinned, causing "considerable and unacceptable suffering". In the past three years 97 per cent of seals killed were less than three months old."

This is despicable and deplorable.

I feel the same way about whale hunting... they do not need to be slaughtered, especially for "scientific research", and southern Whale Sanctuaries are being abused by the Japanese, as they choose to ignore the sanctuary boundaries. The Japanese and Norwegians say that there are abundant whale numbers, but do they stop to think that in one species of whales, there are several subspecies, each with their own physical differences, and territories? No! They just see the $ signs and keep going.

What will happen when all these beautiful creatures are gone? How will you explain to your children that we let them slaughter them all?

The greed of Man will be our own downfall.

Come on world, have a heart.

Myths and facts about the seal hunt from the Canadian Department of Fisheries and Oceans.

BTW, It has been illegal to kill the cute fluffy white seals since 1987.

Yeah. We don't kill the cute ones.

If they looked like lobsters would you care?

Oh, and this year there's been a surge in the population so we get to kill MORE!

Stop listening to Paul McCartney. Infact, someone should take his wifes leg and club a seal with it.

Unfortunately this statement is all too true. The seal hunt has been a popular ecoextremist campaign fundsraiser because the pups are so darned cutie.

Ooops, newsflash...the pups aren't hunted. In fact, it's been highly illegal to go anywhere near the pups. And it's been like it for decades.

Shhhhh, dont tell anyone.....bad for fundraising.


- Newfie

LMFAO

Just for the record, many of these 'facts" are wrong or misleading.

- Seals have been hunted since 1987, and although they aren't "supposed" to kill the cute baby ones, they still do when the DFO isn't looking because there is a big demand for the fluffy white skins.

- The assertion that seals that appear to have been skinned alive are just 'twitching after death" is a lot of nonsense and has been used as a kind of standard dodge in many different kills of many different types of animals since time immemorial.

- The description of the inuit club as a "humane killing device when properly used" is accurate, but most of the killing is not done by inuit and most of the clubbing is certainly not properly done.

They are trying to make out that it is a bunch of native hunters engaging in an age-old practice of subsistence hunting and dispatching seals with one deft blow, when in fact, if you imagine a bunch of Newfies running around on the ice with baseball bats or ships-gaffs hacking at helpless seals you are a lot closer to the truth.

The Canadian DFO has almost no scientific credibility anyway, they are the ones responsible for destroying the East Coast Fishery and are now hard at work on the same task in the West.

Manly Men

Who wants to go clubbing?

Thank you Dianne

I don't agree with the slaughter of any wild animal, and although I am not vegan, I disapprove of alot of farming practices too.
Lobsters too are taken in great numbers from the wild, just as they are farmed.
Why do they find it necessary to go out and kill so many seals? I realize people need to make an income to feed their familes, but come on, the numbers are staggering!
Governments around the world can say they have banned hunting certain species of animals, but it doesn't stop it happening.
Elephants are still hunted for ivory, even tho there are huge penalties.
Sharks are still thrown back after having their fins cut off for Shark Fin Soup!
Tigers are still being hunted for their skins, and their penises for medicinal purposes?!!
Australian waters are being raped by illegal fishermen and divers, for food and aquariums.
Whales are hunted for 'scientific research'... yet the meat is sold on the black market...

People have no idea what we are doing to the Earth, in the name of survival and progress.

And if it weren't for people like Heather McCartney and Princess Diana, then those landmines would still be there and thousands more innocents would have died or have been maimed. Granted, there are still thousands more landmines and other unnecessary weapons that need disarming, but they brought it to the world's attention.

They aren't supose to kill babies or nursing mothers.

Those that do, do so ILLEGALLY. They are poachers, just as America has idiots willing to go out and kill endangered species regardless of government laws, so does Canada. And when they're caught, their entire catch is taken and they're given huge fines.

The ones you see hunting with clubs are native canadians and inuit hunting in the way their forefathers did, something that we don't force them to stop because of the whole raping their culture/stealing their land thing...

The cull isn't done for kicks. It's not even done for the money, although it does suppliment the income of some of our poorest provinces... it's done because there aren't enough fish in the water to feed all of them, nor enough predators to keep the seal population down. The result without the cull? A bunch of starving, sick, fighting seals. Oh, but they'll still be 'cute' and alive eh? How cute will they be when they start attacking and eating each other (which they DO do when they run out of food).

And honestly, unless you're vegan, you should really shut up. The cow you ate today pretty cute too.

You mean, "supposed", as in one is "supposed" to spread truthful information, not propaganda like the original poster did? How about those that deliberately killed seal pups in order to mock-up false footage for the propaganda? They weren't "supposed" to...but it didn't stop them any.

Those that are killing the seal pups are criminals, plain and simple. Boycotting a legal hunt will do jack to stop the illegal hunters. The logic is simple - if they're killing seal pups, then hunt or no hunt, they're criminals and they'll be doing it either way.



Umm...perhaps because it's frequently accurate? Go to a slaughterhouse or a chicken farm one day, you'll see plenty of dead animals that are twitching.



You are correct on both counts. Generally the hunting is done with rifles, which usually kills the seal immediately if shot correctly. However, there's no such thing as a perfect shot every time. The point of the club is to kill the seal as quickly as possible so as to reduce their suffering to the absolute minimum.

Would you prefer that they suffer a long and drawn out death caused be a nonlethal rifle shot? If one is going to hunt at all, then the humane thing to do is make the animal's death as swift as possible.



I haven't looked at the DFO site, but the seal hunt has never been a natives-only event. If that's stated on the site, then I'd agree that they're wrong on it.

As for the color phrasing of 'Newfies running around on the ice with baseball bats or ships-gaffs hacking at helpless seals', it evokes strong images, but you'd be dead wrong. Unless you've been actually on the ice and seen the hunt, then you've clearly not seen the whole scene.



Of that one I'll agree.


The seal hunt has been for decades now a strictly-regulated, aggressively-policed hunt that takes every measure possible to make it as humane and efficient as possible. Newfoundlanders have been very proud and very focused on trying to perform what has been a hot-button topic in the animal-rights movement. Even within the Newfoundland communities, those who have killed pups and/or otherwise did not observe every possible act of proper and humane hunting have been prosecuted and publicly ostracized for their illegal and unethical activity.

It's a shame that the rest of the world cannot show the same amount of attention and honest willingness to trying to improve the hunt that the Newfoundland culture has done. Instead, we end up having to be repeatedly attacked and maligned by closed-minded peoples who have no more than propaganda-ridden, half-educated and ill-formed prejudices to color their view.

Perhaps what needs to be done is have the seal hunt was closed in the exchange for a media-sheep hunt. There's a lot of people I know that would probably be humane to have them put out of their misery.


- Newfie

I would like to mention...

Whale burgers are so DAMN TASTY... I totally understand why the Japanese still fish them

God... I'm drooling just remembering it...

I find this pretty rude, where do you get off telling me to shut up?

Everything I posted was a fact. I have personally seen the videos of drunk newfies running around on the ice after seals, and seals being skinned alive.

It's *not* a bunch of "noble savages" acting out their ancestral role in the great mystery of life and all that other blah-blah bull, it's about money. It's also not a "hunt" when the animals don't/can't run, and either lie on the ice waiting for you, or come right up to your boat to have their heads bashed in. That kind of thing is generally referred to as a "slaughter."

And yes, I prefer to let nature take its course and have any seals that cannot find the food to survive to die of their own accord not be slaughtered for questionable purposes by fisherman (who happen to be native), under the guise of an "ancestral fishery." If an Inuit wants to kill a seal and eat it because they are hungry IMO that's just dandy, but this is not that.

This is a funny admission since my post, ( which you are picking apart here) is based entirely on a rebuttal of some of the info on that site. I have seen several videos of exactly this happening and read several eyewitness accounts too. Those are quite old now, but still 100% accurate in the sense that this is exactly what happened.

As for the rest, you seem to be more involved and more in the know of the details than I so I wont argue with you. My point was about the DFO and the way they try to make it sound humane and controlled when all the evidence I have seen says it isn't.

What I really strongly strongly object to though is the way you constantly refer to it as a "Hunt." There is no seal hunt. There are no brave hunters lying in wait for the stealthy and deadly seal, hoping to get a shot at it before it gores them or tramples their camp.

It's a slaughter, not a hunt. Whether you agree with it or not, it's closer to shooting puppies in a box, than it is to a "hunt" and to evoke images of "hunting" is much more of a travesty then my evocation of "foolish Newfies" was.

/pukes... the picture of the cub is heartbreaking when you read the story ; ;.. its lil eyes crying *dont club meeeeeee*

fucking sickos ; ;

I stand my ground on this, and I agree with Dianne, not all the clubbings are done by the inuit, and I don't deny them their heritage, but they only take what they need to survive, at least they're only supposed to take what they need.
Why then is the 'hunt' during whelping season if it is so illegal to hunt nursing mothers and pups?
And yes the pups are completely defenceless against such an act, they are BABIES.
As for the seals turning on each other in times of overpopulation and/or lack of food, that is nature... Would you go killing lions because a bachelor pride raids a mother/cub pride due to lack of food and mating rights? It happens. It's nature.
And as for telling us to shut up, I have the right to voice my opinion, just as much as you, and have not told you to shut up... I am quite interested in reading others' opinions.... I have done my job and made people think about it.

I have been aware of the seal hunt for decades. I am a staunch environmentalist and conservationist.

On a personal level, I think it's disgusting and outrageous, but I am also a realist.

There is no threat to the population of harp seals. There is a threat to the Atlantic cod stocks. Guess what seals eat kiddies, yes, you got it.....Atlantic cod. Likewise, seals are also the carrier of parasites which infect cod, namely worms. Lovely.

It's no secret that overfishing is a factor in the decline of cod stocks, but if cod stocks are to be restored to traditional numbers, some drastic measure must be undertaken.

First of all, stop fishing...that's happened.

Second, control predators and parasitical hosts.....that'll be seals folks.


You can't have one without the other.

The Canadian Maritime provinces have been on hard economic times in these many years past.

Foreigners imposing ignorant viewpoints, while denying basic needs of our citizens is something that disturbs me more than killing seals.

For some reason the two people responding to my post got the impression that I believe most of the hunters to be inuit. Nope, I'm just pointing out that the club is traditional to them and that they generally use it.

The rest of the Canadians prefer shot guns. It's cheap, we all seem to have one, and it takes seconds to bag your seal.

The hunt is during whelping season because the ICE has to be thick enough so that the seals don't fall into the water after being shot. The whelping season is at that time because the ICE has to be thick enough so that the seals don't fall into the water after being born. Same logic, two different species thinking it's a good idea.

If Lions got so populus that there was no way to maintain a healthy population because of the lack of food... then yeah, they'd have a cull too. The deer in my area spread lyme disease... and you know what? every year we go out and kill them to keep the population down.

You're right, the 'shut up' comment was harsh, sorry. I'm just sick of people who don't pause to think that they eat meat. If you eat meat, you can't really complain about someone eating something you think is 'cute' because someone out there thinks you're a monster for killing those poor pretty baby cows and lambs. I love cats, I have one, I adore her and am her worshipful servant in all things.... but I don't freak out because some hungry people on another continent might look at her and think "Ooo.... look at the size of that dinner..." Likewise, the Hindus haven't started massive protests over us killing cows.

Oh my! You've seen -video- *gasp* then it must be true! They couldn't have actually just taken a video of illegal poachers.... then labeled it as the cull.



Dianne? You'd rather the seals -starve- to death, slowly and painfully, and then die at sea... than for them to be shot in the head and used as food for humans. Even if they are skinned while dying, the short death is actually a lot less painful. Very compassionate of you. I'm going to guess you really have no clue what starving to death entails or you'd rather they had a bullet to the head.

I guess it's time for a basic lesson on seals and their herds.



Seals spend the vast majority of their lives living directly in the water. The only time that seals come up onto 'land' (the ice) is for about one month each year when the arctic ice is thick and covering most of the seals' normal territory.

Not-so-coincidentally, seal pups are completely dependent on their parents for the first few weeks of life, including being unable to swim. This means that the only time that it is possible to birth seal pups is during the pack-ice timeframe. That's also the only time that such a hunt could happen, is when the ice conditions allow the weight of hunters on it. The male seals congregate in the northern ice pack areas, and the mothers/pups in the southern area. There is a legal requirement that the hunt must take place no less than 12 miles from the nearest pack of birthing mothers, and that only the males are to be hunted.

The male harp seal is an ill-tempered, highly aggressive animal, frequently topping 300 pounds or more. The biggest problem with harp seals is that they are also incredibly fast for their bulk, and will dive into open water within a split second of danger - that is, if they dont decide to charge and kill/maim the hunter. To successfully hunt a male harp seal is a hard task, as the rifle shot has to be a one-shot kill. To miss on the shot and merely to injure the seal frequently means the seal will likely dive into the water and escape, only to almost certainly die a lingering, painful death from their injuries. That's why the club is actually a humane device - it is used to complete the process of killing the seal as thoroughly and quickly as possible, before the seal can escape. It's not a camera-friendly way of finishing the deed, but it is the fastest and most humane way to complete the job started by the rifle.




That's why the pups are extremely off-limits. The reason they're used as the icon of the anti-hunt movement is because of their incredibly high cuteness. Only one problem, they're not part of the hunt. The mothers aren't part of the hunt either. Only the adult male harp seals are legally part of the hunt.





Your intentions were noble, but your knowledge on the matter was at best incomplete, at worst downright misled. If you are going to attempt to convince others to boycott the seal hunt, then do it using the real facts, not just half-facts, falsehoods and in many cases downright forgeries. Take some time to learn what the hunt IS rather than what distant third-parties with a hardcore political agenda want to pretend it is.


- Newfie

I have spent the past 24 hours researching everything I could lay my eyes on, regarding the seal 'hunt'. I admit that there is propaganda, but it comes from both sides.
I found no information directly from the mouths of WWF or IFAW members to say that the way in which the Harp seals are killed is at all humane. In fact, IFAW outwardly expresses on their website that they never said this and neither did WWF, and that the idea put forward by Premier Danny Williams, on behalf of Prime Minister Harper, that the vets and scientists asked to oversee the process were then sacked by their organizations, is an out and out lie.
Although I could also not find a campaign from the WWF in favour of protecting harp seals, the only Pro seal 'hunt' information I could find came from the DFO. However, there are numerous organizations that ARE opposed to the inhumanity of the 'hunt': IFAW, WSPA, Harpseals.org, Bon voor Dieren, commondreams.org, to name a few. If there are texts or URLs out there that are Pro sealing, and independant of Canadian politics, please send me a title or link. I am happy to read more.

Weedy, the cod are in low number due to human overfishing, you know this already. The statement you make about the Harp seals infecting the cod with worms may not be completely accurate. Could it be the other way around, and if it isn't the cod infecting the seals, I wonder if it could be one of the other 120 fish, molluscs and crustateans in the seals' diets that cause the worms? Could pollution be a contributing factor? I found no info to substantiate either claim, but again if there is text on the matter please send details.

Quote from http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/seal-phoque/myth_e.htm :

"Myth #1: The Canadian government allows sealers to kill whitecoat seals.
Reality: The image of the whitecoat harp seal is used prominently by seal hunt opponents. This image gives the false impression that vulnerable seal pups are targeted by sealers during the commercial hunt.

[Fact?]: The hunting of harp seal pups (whitecoats) and hooded seal pups (bluebacks) is illegal – and has been since 1987. Marine Mammal Regulations prohibit the trade, sale or barter of the fur of these pups. Furthermore, adult seals cannot be harvested when they are in breeding or birthing grounds and younger seals must be weaned, self-reliant and independent."

Newfie, I hate to differ with your educated statement that only adult male seals are legally part of the 'hunt', but the above quote is from the DFO itself. Hmmm, since when is a 2 week old pup, just weaned and moulted and still yet not touched the water classed as an adult male? Do they flip them over to check the sex of the animal to make sure it is male? Fact: Harp seals are not mature until they are 4-6 years old.

I personally have not said in any of my posts to ban the 'hunt' completely, just stop killing the pups!!
This does not mean I don't wish the 'hunt' to stop, but I encourage people to look up the info as I have, and draw their own conclusions. I still stand very opposed to the 'hunt'.
Oh, and just for the record, I don't eat veal, or lamb of any age, and all the meat and animal products I do buy are Australian, humanely killed and organic. Thank you.

But from what I understand, the Canadian government is keeping its own people from fishing while selling off fishing rights to other countries. Do you know anything about this?

Poledra, the hunters aren't allowed within several kilometers of the nursing pack, seals congegate to give birth and nurse, the males aren't allowed in that pack. So if a 'baby' seal is weaned and 10 km away from mum, it's not one of the new borns, it's at least a year old. Since the males aren't allowed in that pack, they form their own... which makes them oh so easy to find. There might be the few gender confused females in there... but they don't have babies.

Legally, you can't kill pups. You keep saying you're only angry about the killing of pups, but really, what more do you want than for it to be illegal to go -anywhere- near them or to kill them? Do you want Canada to set up a 24 hour seal guard?

You may not actually eat -veal-... but Canadians that aren't poachers don't kill and eat baby seals. You eat grown cows. We eat adult seals. You may eat organic and hope the death was 'humane' (which has different meanings to different people), but some still view you as a monster because that cow is still dead, and still felt pain while dying, still cried out, maybe even tried to run because no one is 100% accurate with a gun when a moving creature is involved. If they are 100%, it's because your cow was restrained and probably panicked and fought before death to get out of the strange tight enclosure around it.... And if they kill the cows in the same spot, which is pretty normal if you want to be able to keep it sanitary, they'll be able to smell the deaths of the cows before them, which often will panic them.

Wheee, look at all the fun things you learn when you go to a farm to actually pick out which cow you'll eat for the rest of the year.

No offence again, but this is just not true.

It *is* illegal to kill the pups, but "pups" are defined as "less than 12 to 14 days old." That's not a pup, thats a baby. That's like saying "well you can't kill babies, but you can kill toddlers." During the last Seal slaughter, 97% of the harp seals killed were pups under three months of age.

This is if they are over two weeks old or their fur is no longer pure white, you can bash their brains in with your hooked club with impunity.

- independant groups studying the hunt have found it is outrageously cruel
- pups *are* skinned alive
- baby seals are being killed to make dog food
- the DFO *doesn't* properly moitor the herds or the slaughter.
- the only reason there are so many seals now is becasue they are making a comeback from their previously deicmated numbers.
- there is no real evidence that the seals affect the cod stocks.

It's about the money. It's nothing to do with science, or cod, or anything else. There is no need, nor any market for Seals beyond dog food and fur coats. Neither of which is sufficient cause for bashing the skulls of baby seals and skinning them alive.

What this is about is the DFO throwing a financial bone to the poor people of Newfoundland that they have so royaly screwed in the past by destroying the East Coast fishery with their poor management techniques. The Fisherfolk turn a blind eye to the bad science because for once, it's bad science on their side instead of the other way around.

Seals are quite literally "sea-dogs" they have all the intelligence, the feelings and the emotions of your family dog. How popular would it be to have a yearly event bashing puppies heads in with sticks with hooks on the end and skinning *them* alive??

http://www.hsus.org/marine_mammals/protect_seals/about_the_canadian_seal_hunt/

Ok, and...?