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Religeous Two Week Fire Gap |
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Roland Hauptmann
Registered User
Join date: 29 Oct 2005
Posts: 323
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11-02-2005 20:47
Athiests do help. With each of these disasters, I was not able to help by being there, but I opened my checkbook and made a sizeable donation to aid in a quick recovery. I hate seeing people without homes and in such despair, so donating money is my own little way to try to help out. I think that despite the seemingly polarized views on religion that the members of this forum exhibit, the vast majority of Americans don't base their entire persona on their religion. |
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Ulrika Zugzwang
Magnanimous in Victory
Join date: 10 Jun 2004
Posts: 6,382
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11-02-2005 20:47
How can you judge people on their religion(beliefs)? religion (beliefs) ~Ulrika~ _____________________
Chik-chik-chika-ahh
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Kevn Klein
God is Love!
Join date: 5 Nov 2004
Posts: 3,422
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11-02-2005 20:50
This is off topic but there's one thing you do that drives me bonkers, Kevn. You always omit the space before your opening parenthesis. It should read: religion (beliefs) ~Ulrika~ Thank you, I'll remember that |
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Juro Kothari
Like a dog on a bone
Join date: 4 Sep 2003
Posts: 4,418
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11-02-2005 20:51
I think that despite the seemingly polarized views on religion that the members of this forum exhibit, the vast majority of Americans don't base their entire persona on their religion. or lack thereof.  _____________________
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Roland Hauptmann
Registered User
Join date: 29 Oct 2005
Posts: 323
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11-02-2005 20:54
True, although I consider Atheism to be a religion.
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Juro Kothari
Like a dog on a bone
Join date: 4 Sep 2003
Posts: 4,418
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11-02-2005 21:03
True, although I consider Atheism to be a religion. I consider it to be a distinct lack of. Free thinker. _____________________
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Roland Hauptmann
Registered User
Join date: 29 Oct 2005
Posts: 323
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11-02-2005 21:29
I consider it to be a distinct lack of. Free thinker. Well, belief that there is no God is something that is taken on faith, and cannot be proven rationally. Thus, it's a religion. Of course, if you're talking about Atheism like chip believes( weak atheism ), which is what I call Agnostic (which is what I am), then I'd be more inclined to agree with you. |
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Seth Kanahoe
political fugue artist
Join date: 30 Jan 2005
Posts: 1,220
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11-02-2005 21:44
Ellie Edo pointed this out earlier in this thread, but it got ignored because it was profound and truthful.
Here's Ulrika from the "Third Thread of the Apocalypse": "Make a post about scratching a car and people go insane. They use names like stupid, moron, illegal, coward, and so on. Make a post about destroying a bible and people go insane. They express indignation, outrage, and sadness. But talk about the state-sponsored killing of 100,000 people and the middle class of the U.S. yawn." Which united all three threads in a common theme and summarized the intent of Ulrika's Sermons from the Cleft. In case you still don't get it - Ulrika's performance provided the circumstances by which so many of her critics demonstrated her point - and demonstrated against their own criticisms. Many of you have been owned in the worst possible way. Now, you can either get angry, or deny the obvious, or try to slither your way out of the pit into which you have fallen. Or you can admit it, give credit, retain your dignity, and live to fight another day. _____________________
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Ulrika Zugzwang
Magnanimous in Victory
Join date: 10 Jun 2004
Posts: 6,382
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11-02-2005 21:48
Well, belief that there is no God is something that is taken on faith, and cannot be proven rationally. Thus, it's a religion. ~Ulrika~ _____________________
Chik-chik-chika-ahh
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Ulrika Zugzwang
Magnanimous in Victory
Join date: 10 Jun 2004
Posts: 6,382
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11-02-2005 21:51
Ellie Edo pointed this out earlier in this thread, but it got ignored because it was profound and truthful. Here's Ulrika from the "Third Thread of the Apocalypse": "Make a post about scratching a car and people go insane. They use names like stupid, moron, illegal, coward, and so on. Make a post about destroying a bible and people go insane. They express indignation, outrage, and sadness. But talk about the state-sponsored killing of 100,000 people and the middle class of the U.S. yawn." Which united all three threads in a common theme and summarized the intent of Ulrika's Sermons from the Cleft. In case you still don't get it - Ulrika's performance provided the circumstances by which so many of her critics demonstrated her point - and demonstrated against their own criticisms. Many of you have been owned in the worst possible way. Now, you can either get angry, or deny the obvious, or try to slither your way out of the pit into which you have fallen. Or you can admit it, give credit, retain your dignity, and live to fight another day.  ~Ulrika~ _____________________
Chik-chik-chika-ahh
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Roland Hauptmann
Registered User
Join date: 29 Oct 2005
Posts: 323
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11-02-2005 21:59
Nonsense. One could take this further by saying that the belief that there is no invisible dragon in my garage is unprovable and is thus a religion, that there is no leprechaun living in my skull is unprovable and is thus a religion, or that there is no giant turtle holding up the universe is unprovable and is thus a religion. One could spawn infinitely many pseudoscientific, supernatural, and, thus, untestable theories and claim because there is no proof, that they each are a religion unto themselves. Reductio ad absurdum. Your argument from ignorance is fallacious. ~Ulrika~ No, I don't think so. I can tell, with a reasonable degree of certainty, that there is not a dragon in my living room, or that there is not a leprechan in my skull. Such things would likely have some sort of affect on the environment. Belief in something that is well outside our capacity to measure is based on faith, and is not rational. For instance, believing that there are aliens when you have no proof of their existence, is a faith based belief. It's not based on any kind of empirical evidence. Likewise, saying that there are no aliens ANYWHERE is also a faith based belief. There is really no reason to think that. The universe is a massive place, and we haven't come close to exploring it to any significant extent. You can say that you have never seen any evidence of God, and thus have no reason to believe that he exists. This is a perfectly valid and rational belief. However, saying you KNOW that there is no God is not a rational belief at all. There's no way you could possibly know such a thing, with any degree of certainty. |
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Ulrika Zugzwang
Magnanimous in Victory
Join date: 10 Jun 2004
Posts: 6,382
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11-02-2005 22:00
No, I don't think so. I can tell, with a reasonable degree of certainty, that there is not a dragon in my living room, or that there is not a leprechan in my skull. Such things would likely have some sort of affect on the environment. ~Ulrika~ _____________________
Chik-chik-chika-ahh
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Roland Hauptmann
Registered User
Join date: 29 Oct 2005
Posts: 323
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11-02-2005 22:06
Well, I can't prove it. However, I could measure everything about your garage, and determine that there is no evidence that he exists. Proving non-existence is pretty much impossible.
However, to do the same thing with God, you'd have to measure everything... So, you couldn't achieve the same degree of certainty. Keep in mind, I'm not religious myself. But I don't fool myself into thinking that I can know that such a being does not exist. There are certain aspects of our undestanding of the universe that will most likely be permanent holes in our understanding.. Things like the creation of the universe, for instance. Basically, we know that whatever happened to spawn creation was something that defies all rules concerning causality... and causality is basically the cornerstone of our rationality. Some creationists tend to say crap like "Well, the universe must have come from somewhere, so God created it." and that is obviously bull. But no matter how you slice it, something like the origin of the universe is going to be caused by something that is just as irrational as an omnipotent super being. |
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Lecktor Hannibal
YOUR MOM
Join date: 1 Jul 2004
Posts: 6,734
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11-02-2005 22:20
Ellie Edo pointed this out earlier in this thread, but it got ignored because it was profound and truthful. Here's Ulrika from the "Third Thread of the Apocalypse": "Make a post about scratching a car and people go insane. They use names like stupid, moron, illegal, coward, and so on. Make a post about destroying a bible and people go insane. They express indignation, outrage, and sadness. But talk about the state-sponsored killing of 100,000 people and the middle class of the U.S. yawn." Which united all three threads in a common theme and summarized the intent of Ulrika's Sermons from the Cleft. In case you still don't get it - Ulrika's performance provided the circumstances by which so many of her critics demonstrated her point - and demonstrated against their own criticisms. Many of you have been owned in the worst possible way. Now, you can either get angry, or deny the obvious, or try to slither your way out of the pit into which you have fallen. Or you can admit it, give credit, retain your dignity, and live to fight another day. Thank [insert diety] I'm above the abomination that is the middle class of the U.S. However, her drollish posts these days still make me yawn. Forgive me I'm middle-AGED. _____________________
YOUR MOM says, 'Come visit us at SC MKII http://secondcitizen.net '
Oh, Lecktor, you're terrible. Bikers have more fun than people ! |
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Memory Harker
Girl Anachronism
Join date: 17 Jun 2005
Posts: 393
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Um ...
11-02-2005 22:31
Memory, The problem is you don't know who it is you are talking about. How can you judge people on their religion(beliefs)? Without meeting them, hearing their concerns and needs. I'll bet you would find most to be very pleasant. Um ... okay, well, maybe you have a point. Maybe I --- People who would want to help you in your plight in life. Bwa ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! People who would want to help you in your plight in life. BWA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA! |
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Memory Harker
Girl Anachronism
Join date: 17 Jun 2005
Posts: 393
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*catches breath*
11-02-2005 22:36
*dries eyes*
*shakes head, exhales slowly* Whew ... omg ... that was a good one ... *chuckles* Ah well, back to my plight in life ... |
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Ulrika Zugzwang
Magnanimous in Victory
Join date: 10 Jun 2004
Posts: 6,382
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11-02-2005 22:42
Well, I can't prove it. However, I could measure everything about your garage, and determine that there is no evidence that he exists. ~Ulrika~ _____________________
Chik-chik-chika-ahh
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Memory Harker
Girl Anachronism
Join date: 17 Jun 2005
Posts: 393
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11-02-2005 22:43
However, to do the same thing with God, you'd have to measure everything... Our crack team of scientists is on the case, thank you, and will get the job done a lot more quickly if you stop throwing irrelevant spanners like Intelligent (so-called) Design into the works! |
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Champie Jack
Registered User
Join date: 6 Dec 2003
Posts: 1,156
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11-02-2005 22:54
Ulrika made a good point that people can be furious that someone suggest a SUV is keyed or a bible is destroyed, but we have much bigger and more important fish out there that are being fried daily. You mean we've all been blind to the injustices in the world, and only now, through Ulrika's forum wizardry, is the truth known! OMG! |
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Ulrika Zugzwang
Magnanimous in Victory
Join date: 10 Jun 2004
Posts: 6,382
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11-02-2005 23:09
You mean we've all been blind to the injustices in the world, and only now, through Ulrika's forum wizardry, is the truth known! OMG! ~Ulrika~ _____________________
Chik-chik-chika-ahh
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Juro Kothari
Like a dog on a bone
Join date: 4 Sep 2003
Posts: 4,418
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11-02-2005 23:21
... the belief that there is no invisible dragon in my garage... You have a garage in the city?! I'm really starting to dislike you. _____________________
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Ulrika Zugzwang
Magnanimous in Victory
Join date: 10 Jun 2004
Posts: 6,382
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11-02-2005 23:48
You have a garage in the city?! I'm really starting to dislike you. ~Ulrika~ _____________________
Chik-chik-chika-ahh
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Champie Jack
Registered User
Join date: 6 Dec 2003
Posts: 1,156
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11-03-2005 00:10
Is there a remaining blind to the injustices of the world option? ~Ulrika~ I think you've demonstrated that there is |
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Seth Kanahoe
political fugue artist
Join date: 30 Jan 2005
Posts: 1,220
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11-03-2005 05:40
Thank [insert diety] I'm above the abomination that is the middle class of the U.S. However, her drollish posts these days still make me yawn. Forgive me I'm middle-AGED. A person who uses Charlie Manson as a forum avatar and a suave, intellectual cannibal as a toon name will never be middle-aged. You're as bad/good as Ulrika.  _____________________
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Kevn Klein
God is Love!
Join date: 5 Nov 2004
Posts: 3,422
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11-03-2005 06:10
How do you know my invisible dragon isn't flying around performing dragon miracles? I assure you that my invisible dragon exists and unless you can prove he doesn't exist, that means you cannot claim he doesn't exist. ~Ulrika~ There is evidence of a creator. The creation! It's not logical to look at the perfection of the universe, solar system, Earth and life and assume it came to be without design. Those who refuse to look at the possibility of a creator can't be a sceintist, because scientists never rule out any possibilty until proven false. Atheism is a religion, and it takes a leap of faith to assume all we see is the result of a big bang. It takes no leap of faith to know from experience things don't organize themselves into living beings, able to ponder the universe. |