Judge outlaws prison group's Bible program

DES MOINES, Iowa (AP) -- A judge has ruled that a Bible-based prison program violates the First Amendment's freedom of religion clause by using state funds to promote Christianity to inmates.
----end

Is the judge going to far? Or is he right?


Briana Dawson

Oooh, this is interesting. Personally, I feel if people are in prison, they should have access to any spiritual guidance of their choice. That being said, the state (or federal government) should not be funding it. If the religions do not have to pay taxes, why should tax dollars fund them to carry their message to the inmates? Someone else should pay for that, whether it be the church/synagogue/mosque - whatever - or the inmate (inmate's family)


(and if I hear "activist judges" I think I'll barf)

Interesting.

I just got involved in a thread recently where people were getting very upset about prisons helping transsexuals with hormone replacement therapy. They didnt wish Tax payer money to be spent on what they considered non -necessary, though most psychiatrisst recognize it as an needed medical treatment for people with gender identity disorder. The interesting part of that is they had no problems with State funded Bible programs (which I don't find necessary).

One is a medical need, and we do pay for prisoner's other forms of determined needed meds such as anti-depressents. Most of the nay-sayers were in favor of Bible Study in prisons.


I. frankly don't want my tax dollars spent on it. Let them pick up a Bible in the prison library and ask their chaplain questions. But organized teaching? Nope.

It isn't an issue of separation of church and state. It's about preferential treatment given to those who participated.

"Lynn's group accused Prison Fellowship Ministries of giving preferential treatment to inmates participating in the program. They were given special visitation rights, movie-watching privileges, access to computers and access to classes needed for early parole."

http://www.forbes.com/work/feeds/ap/2006/06/03/ap2791183.html

Which puts an entirely different spin on it.

I'm... unsure, at best.

Preferential treatment woul dvalidate the Judge's' action, as would state funds being spent to support the group, so I agree with the Judge.

I also believe that completion of hormone therapy and surgery is vital to transsexuals. Think of what likely happens when someoen undergoing MTF transition ends up at a male prison because her junk hasn't been removed yet.....

Interesting I agree...

Forgive me quoting you Kendra, this isn't a response to you exactly, but you made an interesting point and I want to highlight it.

Firstly... was the judge wrong? Well, we'd need to see it in context... would the prisoner similarly have been banned from study of the Torah, Qu'Ran (appologies if my spelling sucks) or other religious book... if so, then denying bible study could be seen as right.

On the other hand, regardless of what people here say, the USA is officially seen as a christian country, be that right or wrong, and there aren't many countries where the government would go against the wishes of the dominant religion... In fact, you have it good that the religion doesn't "completely" dominate the government.

On the trans-sexual point... Kendra, I agree 100%, except with the concept that psychologists/psychiatrists have any more expertese than the local drunk. It's not a science any more than any religion is... If you're going to disavow religion, you can't use psycological arguments... sorry.

The point of prison is punishment and rehabilitation. The punishment aspect is the loss of freedom of momvement. It should not extend to freedom of religion nor should it extend to medical issues even if they are elective. If someone is in the middle of transsexual conversion when they are arrested, they should be allowed to at least continue the hormone treatment in prison.

In the case of the OP, if there is favoritism being shown to one religious group, that is wrong.

-Kiamat Dusk

Sorry Siobhan, there IS a scientific basis here. A CT scan of a male and female brain will show different pattens of neurons firing.
Interestingly, transgendered individuals will show the firing pattern of the gender they consider themselves to be, rather than their apparent physical gender.

It's all the pesticides in the water, I tell ya.

Here is another way to look at it to see if you agree or not:

Replace the word “Christian” in that article with the word “Satanic”. Now, do you still think Gov funds should be used?

If they want a lil bible group in prison good for them. The local church can pay for it insted of tax dollars.

Bibles are free to prisons.

The funding of the program was not. It's not even a "Bible-study" group, but a "Bible-based prison program"

Who do you think pays the prison chaplains?

Oh, I think we all know who does, and they should be gone too, just like military chaplains should be gone.

Hehe. I can't begin to express to you how much fun I had being a "buddhist" in the army. Everything from stamping my dogtags to sunday freetime gave them fits. Jackasses.

Do you think there might happen to be other religious affiliations represented that are also paid by the state?

Doesn't mean it's right.

Usually, the state tries to accommodate all inmates religious requirements.

O rly?

Is that why they have muslim and buddhist chaplains too?

All they need is their books, period. If someone needs another person to help them feel better about their beliefs, then their not a true believer.

Uh huh... that's why some of them try to fight Kosher menus?

This does not mean much as the government also pays chaplains of various faiths in the Navy.

hmm, on second thought, I wonder if that is crossing the separation of church and state line.

Briana Dawson

Ask the US Supreme Court, which meets under the 10 Commandments, after praying to God.

That's a load of rubbish.

Solon, Confucius, Moses, and allegorical others, representing a variety of legal themes, adorn the eastern pediment.

Here is a quote from the actual sculptor:

"Law as an element of civilization was normally and naturally derived or inherited in this country from former civilizations. The "Eastern Pediment" of the Supreme Court Building suggests therefore the treatment of such fundamental laws and precepts as are derived from the East. Moses, Confucius and Solon are chosen as representing three great civilizations and form the central group of this Pediment."

Now, the doors and the frieze that are in the court itself - christians love to claim have the ten commandments on them - no - they have the roman numerals one through ten engraved upon them which is a reference to the first ten amendments to the U.S. Constitution, what we call the Bill of Rights.

Actually, there are two friezes in the court itself, depicting eighteen different historical lawgivers - Charlemagne, Mohammed, Justinian, Napoleon, King John, Louis IX, Hugo Grotius, John Marshall, and Sir William Blackstone, on the north wall, and Lycurgus, Solomon, Moses, Menes, Solon, Draco, Hammurabi, Octavian, and Confucius on the south wall.

You go on though Kevn, and keep circulating your little myths - I am sure you will convince some weak-minded people along the way.

Moses is the most prominent figure in the center, displaying the 10 commandments. Here are pictures...

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/967509/posts

"With regard to today's refusal to hear the case against Alabama Chief Justice Roy Moore, the court has at least delayed a legal decision about defacing its own hallowed halls.

It is likely well-known to the justices that the East Pediment of the Supreme Court showcases the image of Moses bearing the two tablets upon which the 10 Commandments are enscribed. In fact, Moses is front and center and indeed the largest figure in the entire sculpture."

The image is too small to see, are the commandments really written on those tablets?