Senate Democrats propose Bible class for public schoolsBy Doug GrossASSOCIATED PRESSATLANTA - Georgia public school students would be allowed to study the Bible under a plan proposed by Democrats in the state Senate today.
The bill authorizes the state school board to approve an optional course that would teach about the Bible's influence on literature, art, culture and politics.
"As a history major, I understand very clearly the impact the Bible has had on society," said Sen. Tim Golden, of Valdosta, chairman of the Senate's Democratic caucus and the bill's sponsor. "It's had a huge impact."
The bill would allow for "nonsectarian, nonreligious academic study" of the Bible and would require it "be taught in an objective and nondevotional manner with no attempt made to indoctrinate students as to either the truth or falsity of the biblical materials."
Sen. Doug Stoner, D-Smyrna, a co-sponsor of the plan, said the Bible was a major influence on works from Shakespeare's plays to the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr.'s "Letter From a Birmingham Jail," which quotes several Bible passages.
"If you're not familiar with those Biblical references, you miss a lot of what that letter's meaning was," Stoner said.
Civil liberties activists said there are ways to teach the Bible in public school without violating the U.S. Constitution, but that such a class would create potential problems.
"There need to be many safeguards when this happens," said Maggie Garrett, legislative counsel with the American Civil Liberties Union's chapter in Georgia.
She said even if the curriculum is carefully worded, a teacher could use the class as an opportunity to preach religious faith.
"Parents don't want to send their kids to public school to have an interpretation of the Bible taught that may not be their interpretation of the Bible," Garrett said.
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Kevn Klein
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02-02-2006 04:56
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Kevn Klein
God is Love!
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02-02-2006 06:07
It's amazing to me the Democrats would use a strong conservative issue to gain support.
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Felix Uritsky
Prime Minister of Lupinia
Join date: 15 Dec 2004
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02-02-2006 06:19
Well, it's in Georgia, which means these are Southern Democrats. Same name (now), different idealogies.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Democrat |
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Kevn Klein
God is Love!
Join date: 5 Nov 2004
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02-02-2006 06:23
Well, it's in Georgia, which means these are Southern Democrats. Same name (now), different idealogies. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_Democrat Maybe they should vote Republican, if Democrats generally don't support their conservative agenda. |
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Desmond Shang
Guvnah of Caledon
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02-02-2006 06:50
Lots of different groups push religion very hard.
There are fundamentalists of all stripes: Christian, Islamic, Hindi, you name it. I say, if anyone wants to actively seek the pearly gates, 72 virgins, nirvana or whatever, good luck to them. I don't have any special insights for or against any of it. I'm just a regular person who doesn't know any cosmic truths. But when someone tries to drag me or my kids with them down their chosen path, that's when I get really mad. About as mad as you would get, if I dragged you down my path. _____________________
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GoldieFawn Fielding
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Set all opinions aside you have of the Bible
02-02-2006 06:56
Now open yer mind to what is inside its covers. DO NOT THINK of it as a religious book.
It is full of stories of greed, murder, deciet, adultry, kindness, love, passion, revenge, team work, war (and the silly reason those wars started), life, death, pain, sorrow, family bonds, sister hood, brotherhood, enduring love, seething hate....etc etc and then it tells us what became of ppl when they lived those lives etc. it is in my view a life lessons book. written by our acient ancestors for us to live by. Goldiefawn fielding |
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Reitsuki Kojima
Witchhunter
Join date: 27 Jan 2004
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02-02-2006 06:58
Lots of different groups push religion very hard. There are fundamentalists of all stripes: Christian, Islamic, Hindi, you name it. I say, if anyone wants to actively seek the pearly gates, 72 virgins, nirvana or whatever, good luck to them. I don't have any special insights for or against any of it. I'm just a regular person who doesn't know any cosmic truths. But when someone tries to drag me or my kids with them down their chosen path, that's when I get really mad. About as mad as you would get, if I dragged you down my path. In this case, however, I feel the class is valid. Not only should it be optional, it should be required for any advanced studies of literature, art, or history(By advanced, in this case, I mean beyond about a 9th grade survey level. Certainly nothing AP or college level). Believe it or not, heck, even like it or not, the Bible and Judeo-christianity have influenced western culture since their inception, and to try to study the latter without studying the former is like trying to study modern literary theory without a good grounding in classical philosophy. _____________________
I am myself indifferent honest; but yet I could accuse me of such things that it were better my mother had not borne me: I am very proud, revengeful, ambitious, with more offenses at my beck than I have thoughts to put them in, imagination to give them shape, or time to act them in. What should such fellows as I do crawling between earth and heaven? We are arrant knaves, all; believe none of us.
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Chip Midnight
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Join date: 1 May 2003
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02-02-2006 07:10
The bill authorizes the state school board to approve an optional course that would teach about the Bible's influence on literature, art, culture and politics. "As a history major, I understand very clearly the impact the Bible has had on society," said Sen. Tim Golden, of Valdosta, chairman of the Senate's Democratic caucus and the bill's sponsor. "It's had a huge impact." The bill would allow for "nonsectarian, nonreligious academic study" of the Bible and would require it "be taught in an objective and nondevotional manner with no attempt made to indoctrinate students as to either the truth or falsity of the biblical materials." Sounds entirely reasonable to me, though I'm not sure why they'd need to pass a bill to allow for it. Study of the Bible's influence has always been allowed in history or comparative religion classes. The key issue is that it's presented in a secular context and doesn't involve proselytizing. _____________________
 My other hobby: www.live365.com/stations/chip_midnight |
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Introvert Petunia
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02-02-2006 07:12
The bible as literature is a fine object of study, I would venture it is damned difficult to discuss it as pure literature at the high school level, though.
I had a friend who pulled his kids from the public school after his ninth grader came home with reading assignments of Nostradamus in science class. His statement on the matter: "history class, fine, literature class, maybe because it is pretty bad literature, science class, no farking way". |
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Chip Midnight
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Join date: 1 May 2003
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02-02-2006 07:19
The bible as literature is a fine object of study, I would venture it is damned difficult to discuss it as pure literature at the high school level, though. hehe, true, but the non-religious often treat the bible as if it's imbued with magic power to convert people to Christianity. It's just a book, and not an especially well written one. It's most often social pressure and parental indoctrination that turns people religious. I decided for myself that the Bible is absurd beyond belief while being taught Bible stories in Sunday school. If I were a parent I wouldn't have an issue with this kind of class, but I'd want to keep a close eye on it to make sure it was being taught in a purely secular format. If not I'd raise some hell. _____________________
My other hobby: www.live365.com/stations/chip_midnight |
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Ordinal Malaprop
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02-02-2006 07:20
I think it's pretty poor literature in itself, but a basic knowledge of it is really rather essential for students of historical Western literature - how are you going to understand Paradise Lost, say, without knowing about the Bible?
On the other hand, it's an obvious way for someone to get religious instruction into schools by the back door, so any syllabus would have to be quite carefully looked at. edit: and if anyone tries to have it taught to, say, 12 year olds, or as a standard course, I'd be very suspicious. |
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GoldieFawn Fielding
Registered User
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I second that Chip
02-02-2006 07:23
Sounds entirely reasonable to me, though I'm not sure why they'd need to pass a bill to allow for it. Study of the Bible's influence has always been allowed in history or comparative religion classes. The key issue is that it's presented in a secular context and doesn't involve proselytizing. ""The key issue is that it's presented in a secular context and doesn't involve proselytizing"" exactly what i was tryin to say but less wordy and to the point Goldiefawn Fielding |
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Reitsuki Kojima
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02-02-2006 07:31
edit: and if anyone tries to have it taught to, say, 12 year olds, or as a standard course, I'd be very suspicious. ITs not really needed for most literature a 12 year old would read, maybe Narnia or something... But it should be a standard course for anything above *very* basic studies in highschool and college level literature. _____________________
I am myself indifferent honest; but yet I could accuse me of such things that it were better my mother had not borne me: I am very proud, revengeful, ambitious, with more offenses at my beck than I have thoughts to put them in, imagination to give them shape, or time to act them in. What should such fellows as I do crawling between earth and heaven? We are arrant knaves, all; believe none of us.
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Ordinal Malaprop
really very ordinary
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02-02-2006 07:38
ITs not really needed for most literature a 12 year old would read, maybe Narnia or something... But it should be a standard course for anything above *very* basic studies in highschool and college level literature. For anyone on courses involving serious analysis of works by DWEMs, yeah. I wouldn't expect it to be amazingly long though if it was done for that reason though. You don't want to take away time that could be used actually studying the literature on the course. I should think a few weeks covering the basic structure and any passages which were particularly relevant to the texts concerned. |
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Introvert Petunia
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02-02-2006 07:43
hehe, true, but the non-religious often treat the bible as if it's imbued with magic power to convert people to Christianity.   If anyone out there can point to anything (be as religious as you like) that gives an explanation as to how god is not made to look like a vegas gambler toying with someone's life on a bet, I'd love to read it as I'd long been baffled by that one. This is a serious inquiry, although not necessarily an invitation to open debate in these forums. |
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Siro Mfume
XD
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02-02-2006 07:44
It's amazing to me the Democrats would use a strong conservative issue to gain support. Why? There are conservative democrats and liberal republicans... |
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Kevn Klein
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02-02-2006 07:51
I think if the first reading in the curriculum was Job, the task of secularizing it would probably be a lot easier (at risk of causing a believer to think "wtf?" If anyone out there can point to anything (be as religious as you like) that gives an explanation as to how god is not made to look like a vegas gambler toying with someone's life on a bet, I'd love to read it as I'd long been baffled by that one. This is a serious inquiry, although not necessarily an invitation to open debate in these forums. Better yet, how about an explanation as to how God IS made to look like a vegas gambler toying with someone's life on a bet from the Bible's passages. I don't see it. |
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Dianne Mechanique
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Join date: 28 Mar 2005
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02-02-2006 08:01
In this case, however, I feel the class is valid. Not only should it be optional, it should be required for any advanced studies of literature, art, or history(By advanced, in this case, I mean beyond about a 9th grade survey level. Certainly nothing AP or college level). Believe it or not, heck, even like it or not, the Bible and Judeo-christianity have influenced western culture since their inception, and to try to study the latter without studying the former is like trying to study modern literary theory without a good grounding in classical philosophy. What I can't understand is that it seems to me that Kevn thinks this is a good idea when in fact it's quite subversive to religion in general. Once you start looking at the Bible as just another document or relating it to proven historical facts, your already a long way down the road to secularism. I would expect a thing like this in the long run, to decrease the attendance figures at fundamentalist meetings, not increase them. _____________________
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black art furniture & classic clothing =================== Black in Neufreistadt Black @ ONE Black @ www.SLBoutique.com . |
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Reitsuki Kojima
Witchhunter
Join date: 27 Jan 2004
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02-02-2006 08:03
Better yet, how about an explanation as to how God IS made to look like a vegas gambler toying with someone's life on a bet from the Bible's passages. I don't see it. Job is a book that has always fascinated me. I've asked a number of learned people about their interperations of it, on both sides of the issue... preachers and rampant athiest college professers both. Basicly, the two aruements are thus. Kevn, the gambler arguement is, when you boil everything down the entire Job parable shows God essentialy making a bet with Satan over what Job would do. Seen in that light, God appears very random and cruel - Toying with a person's life simply to prove a point. As to the opposing, Introvert: It was never a gamble, because God is all knowing. He knew the result before it happened. _____________________
I am myself indifferent honest; but yet I could accuse me of such things that it were better my mother had not borne me: I am very proud, revengeful, ambitious, with more offenses at my beck than I have thoughts to put them in, imagination to give them shape, or time to act them in. What should such fellows as I do crawling between earth and heaven? We are arrant knaves, all; believe none of us.
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Introvert Petunia
over 2 billion posts
Join date: 11 Sep 2004
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02-02-2006 08:21
Better yet, how about an explanation as to how God IS made to look like a vegas gambler toying with someone's life on a bet from the Bible's passages. I don't see it. One day the angels came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came with them. The LORD said to Satan, "Where have you come from?" Satan answered the LORD, "From roaming through the earth and going back and forth in it." Then the LORD said to Satan, "Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil." "Does Job fear God for nothing?" Satan replied. "Have you not put a hedge around him and his household and everything he has? You have blessed the work of his hands, so that his flocks and herds are spread throughout the land. But stretch out your hand and strike everything he has, and he will surely curse you to your face." The LORD said to Satan, "Very well, then, everything he has is in your hands, but on the man himself do not lay a finger." Then Satan went out from the presence of the LORD. One day when Job's sons and daughters were feasting and drinking wine at the oldest brother's house, a messenger came to Job and said, "The oxen were plowing and the donkeys were grazing nearby, and the Sabeans attacked and carried them off. They put the servants to the sword, and I am the only one who has escaped to tell you!" (Job 1:6-16) So the LORD started a bet in (1) asking that Job's body not be screwed with. When that gambit fails, the LORD goes back on his word in (1) and says "okay, screw with his body". It gets worse from there. Was that sufficient evidence from the unimpeachable source?Then the LORD said to Satan, "Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil. And he still maintains his integrity, though you incited me against him to ruin him without any reason." "Skin for skin!" Satan replied. "A man will give all he has for his own life. But stretch out your hand and strike his flesh and bones, and he will surely curse you to your face." The LORD said to Satan, "Very well, then, he is in your hands; but you must spare his life." So Satan went out from the presence of the LORD and afflicted Job with painful sores from the soles of his feet to the top of his head. Then Job took a piece of broken pottery and scraped himself with it as he sat among the ashes. (Job 2:3-  I was asking a genuine theological question and was hoping to get more than a weasly response. I throw my hands up in exasperation.  |
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Introvert Petunia
over 2 billion posts
Join date: 11 Sep 2004
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02-02-2006 08:23
As to the opposing, Introvert: It was never a gamble, because God is all knowing. He knew the result before it happened. |
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Blueman Steele
Registered User
Join date: 28 Dec 2004
Posts: 1,038
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Bible needs to be a separate class
02-02-2006 01:34
else it will blend into every other class.
One time in college we could not get a girl to write a mythology paper because "didn't they all realize there was only one true god" (odd bug?: to me this post appears first as if I started the thread, the one below by Kevin is actually the first) |
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Zuzu Fassbinder
Little Miss No Tomorrow
Join date: 17 Sep 2004
Posts: 2,048
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02-02-2006 02:14
I'm actually suprised more Republicans aren't opposed to this. I took a course as an undergraduate that was: 'The Bible as Literature'. When the course started there were many evangelicals who signed up thinking it would be an easy "A". Many of them dropped out because they had trouble understanding the bible as literature.
For example: the writing styles of J, E, D and P and how each tried to tell stories that put forward their adjenda. How the first creation story appears to be a retrofit version of the Babylonian creation myth. This was many years ago, but let me think... we did cover Job, we discussed why trickster stories were popular. The structure of Hebrew poetry. Political tensions between Judea and Isreal (for example why the golden calf story was inserted into the flight from Egypt story). In the NT we looked at comparisions of the gospels, the tension between Paul and gentile xians and Jewish xians. Some samplings from pauls letters. Discussion of apocyliptic literature comparing the (second half?) of Daniel to the apocylpse of John. Decisions on which books were included and excluded by Jews and Christians and a sampling of the Apocryphon (Sophia, I think). Anyway, it was heavy on the literature, touched on politics, but did absolutely no religious interpretations. Because it wasn't a history or art course, we didn't touch on the influences there. It was a very good course; very secular and extremely informative. It did not promote any religion, but it did seem to irritate many evangelicals. On the last day the professor allowed an open Q&A and there were many allegations that he was an atheist because he was not treating the stories as literally true. (he did reveal at the end that he is a Christian and attends church every week) Anyway, that's my take. I'm not sure how much of this could be covered in a High School class or if the teachers would be up for the challenge of providing a "nonsectarian, nonreligious academic study" of the Bible, though. _____________________
I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either. |
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Zuzu Fassbinder
Little Miss No Tomorrow
Join date: 17 Sep 2004
Posts: 2,048
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02-02-2006 02:15
Having been granted super secret powers, Zuzu predicts that Kevn will follow up her post with a cut and paste artilce in which Democrats propose teaching the Bible in a secular context in High Schools.
Edit: see! _____________________
I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either. |
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Kevn Klein
God is Love!
Join date: 5 Nov 2004
Posts: 3,422
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02-02-2006 09:33
Nice dodge; thanks for the requested information, Sir Linky. Is your familiarity with the book that you beat upon actually that limited? If so: One day the angels came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan also came with them. The LORD said to Satan, "Where have you come from?" Satan answered the LORD, "From roaming through the earth and going back and forth in it." Then the LORD said to Satan, "Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil." "Does Job fear God for nothing?" Satan replied. "Have you not put a hedge around him and his household and everything he has? You have blessed the work of his hands, so that his flocks and herds are spread throughout the land. But stretch out your hand and strike everything he has, and he will surely curse you to your face." The LORD said to Satan, "Very well, then, everything he has is in your hands, but on the man himself do not lay a finger." Then Satan went out from the presence of the LORD. One day when Job's sons and daughters were feasting and drinking wine at the oldest brother's house, a messenger came to Job and said, "The oxen were plowing and the donkeys were grazing nearby, and the Sabeans attacked and carried them off. They put the servants to the sword, and I am the only one who has escaped to tell you!" (Job 1:6-16) So the LORD started a bet in (1) asking that Job's body not be screwed with. When that gambit fails, the LORD goes back on his word in (1) and says "okay, screw with his body". It gets worse from there. Was that sufficient evidence from the unimpeachable source?Then the LORD said to Satan, "Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil. And he still maintains his integrity, though you incited me against him to ruin him without any reason." "Skin for skin!" Satan replied. "A man will give all he has for his own life. But stretch out your hand and strike his flesh and bones, and he will surely curse you to your face." The LORD said to Satan, "Very well, then, he is in your hands; but you must spare his life." So Satan went out from the presence of the LORD and afflicted Job with painful sores from the soles of his feet to the top of his head. Then Job took a piece of broken pottery and scraped himself with it as he sat among the ashes. (Job 2:3- I was asking a genuine theological question and was hoping to get more than a weasly response. I throw my hands up in exasperation. And that is gambling? I'm sorry, I'm not trying to be disrespectful, but that is so funny.  |