Mexico's Secret War: Immigration

I'm not saying do not deport those people who choose to be here illegally. I'm not saying not to punish people who try to skirt around the law. It is a risk they choose to take and even as a person whose family immigrated here I understand and respect that there have to be laws and penalties for breaking those laws. I'm only saying that along with that we should be giving people incentives to FOLLOW the laws, not to break them. This means making it more difficult for employers to get away with hiring only illegals. This means doing things like offering amnesty from prosecution to immigrants who come forward and say they WANT to be citizens. And yes this means preventing the possibility of illegal immigrants getting away with voting so that the ability to vote and have their vote counted becomes an incentive to work toward citizenship.

Please, please run for congress
==Chris

This means doing things like offering amnesty from prosecution to immigrants who come forward and say they WANT to be citizens.

Should we add piranaha's to the moat? It would be too easy if someone had to swim and then climb over the wall. Let's add flesh eating fish.

You do realize that any form of amnesty is very unpopular among American citizens, right?

I still get a kick out of how there's a debate about criminalizing something that is already illegal. Do laws mean anything, or are they just words on papers? Hell, does the English language even mean anything anymore? We've toyed around with it for so long since probably the 60's with PC, so "we don't hurt anyone's feelings" or whatever, to the point that now nobody even understands the obvious contradiction in the phrase "criminalize illegal immigration".

True amnesty is an unpopular idea. And yes there are problems with it. I don't tout it as a solution to the problem

It actually hurts far more than it helps.

We've done it once before (Under Clinton) and the end result is that more people enter illegally in hopes that we'll do it again. It's easier than playing by the rules.

Not moats and high walls (LOL) as someone suggested... but more consistent border checks and better monitoring and higher penalties for the rampant corruption that exists in some locations. IMO

What's wrong with a big wall? It worked for China.

Given how much the illegals are costing us, plus the fact that our border not being guarded means we have a lot more than just mexicans (human imports) to worry about. What we save in medical, schooling, etc. would easily pay for the wall.

The point is, they are here illegally. They don't pay income tax, so the rest of us are footing the bill.

I Think this is bullshit, its nice to see all americans giving their opinion, since they are here, have jobs, has fridge full in their homes, computers, internet and all and can support their families.

Im not an american, im from brazil, We came here to have better lives.. If you ever been outside the US, you will know what im talking about.

Who is gonna pick up the tomatos in the hot steamy sun? Americans will do it but for at least minimal wage, i dont think you guys are looking at this right, they are underpaying illegal immigrants to do these jobs because it will cost them money to pay minimal wage.

I know a friend, who works in "Kmart" or now "Sears Essentials" She is a illegal immigrant, and she works ALONE, her job is to CLEAN the WHOLE store. She has NO days off NO overtime, and works when the store is closed by herself. She cleans the restrooms, she cleans the store floor, as well as take any trash. And if she MISSES one DAY, the owner of the company who hires illegal immigrants will kick her out. She works when the store closes.. and stays in there working until it opens in the morning.

Sears Essentials hires "Contractors" to clean their stores all over the US, and the contractors are like a mafia, they hire illegal people to do the work and pay them way less.

If she had her legal papers, do you think she will be working like this? Do you think this is fair for her to do all this work and get no days off? No overtime? Work like a slave?

Yes Slavery still exists today in the united states, its just hidden from your eyes, or maybe people prefer to be hidden.. Its all about the money.

You want to feed your family, why cant they? In their country there is no good paying jobs.

In brazil, if your over 30 its really hard to get a job, they dont take "Old" people, they want new faces and pretty ones to work in your "Everyday" job.

Plus, cut all of them, make it all illegal.. Prices will GO UP.
Who will want to work on a hot steamy sun for CHEAP LABOR?
If they pay minimal wage.. trust me.. that tomato price will go up..

Its nice to talk about issues when you dont know half of whats going on.

I have a normal job, and i support immigration and illegal residents, because my family was once illegal, and i been there, done that.

Corporations are making record profits. They are stealing us blind - look at what Enron did. Look at oil and gas profits.

I Think this is bullshit

its nice to see all americans giving their opinion, since they are here, have jobs, has fridge full in their homes, computers, internet and all and can support their families.

Im not an american, im from brazil, We came here to have better lives.. If you ever been outside the US, you will know what im talking about.

Who is gonna pick up the tomatos in the hot steamy sun? Americans will do it but for at least minimal wage...

I know a friend, who works in "Kmart" or now "Sears Essentials" She is a illegal immigrant, and she works ALONE, her job is to CLEAN the WHOLE store. She has NO days off NO overtime, and works when the store is closed by herself. She cleans the restrooms, she cleans the store floor, as well as take any trash. And if she MISSES one DAY, the owner of the company who hires illegal immigrants will kick her out. She works when the store closes.. and stays in there working until it opens in the morning.

If she had her legal papers, do you think she will be working like this? Do you think this is fair for her to do all this work and get no days off? No overtime? Work like a slave?

You want to feed your family, why cant they? In their country there is no good paying jobs.

In brazil, if your over 30 its really hard to get a job, they dont take "Old" people, they want new faces and pretty ones to work in your "Everyday" job.

Plus, cut all of them, make it all illegal.. Prices will GO UP.
Who will want to work on a hot steamy sun for CHEAP LABOR?
If they pay minimal wage.. trust me.. that tomato price will go up..

I have a normal job, and i support immigration and illegal residents, because my family was once illegal, and i been there, done that.

What's wrong with a big wall? It worked for China.

Given how much the illegals are costing us, plus the fact that our border not being guarded means we have a lot more than just mexicans (human imports) to worry about. What we save in medical, schooling, etc. would easily pay for the wall.

At what point does your xenophobia kick in? Try out this little scale...

"It worries me when _________ are getting lots of good jobs and having lots of children."

New Yorkers
Californians
Nebraskans
Canadians
Brits
Mexicans
Guatemalans
Indians
Russians
Kenyans
Chinese
Iranians
Martians

Maybe if more US kids were taught in school about the time your invasion went sour and the Canadians burned the White House to the ground, youse guys wouldn't be so "invasion happy" in the first place.

Teens try to change the world, one purchase at a time

Youths 'vote' for fair trade, conservation, and natural foods with their dollars - but convenience is also a consideration

By G. Jeffrey MacDonald | Correspondent of The Christian Science Monitor

CAMBRIDGE, MASS. – When classes adjourn here at the Fayerweather Street School, eighth-graders ignore the mall down the street and go straight to the place they consider much cooler: the local natural-foods grocer.
There they gather in groups of 10 or more sometimes, smitten by a marketing atmosphere that links attractiveness to eating well. And when time comes to buy something even as small as a chocolate treat, they feel good knowing a farmer somewhere probably received a good price.

"Food is something you need to stay alive," says eighth-grader Emma Lewis. "Paying farmers well is really important because if we didn't have any [unprocessed] food, we'd all be living on Twinkies."

Eating morally, as some describe it, is becoming a priority for teenagers as well as adults in their early 20s. What began a decade ago as a concern on college campuses to shun clothing made in overseas sweatshops has given birth to a parallel phenomenon in the food and beverage industries. Here, youthful shoppers are leveraging their dollars in a bid to reduce pesticide usage, limit deforestation, and make sure farmers aren't left with a pittance on payday.

Once again, college campuses are setting the pace. Students at 30 colleges have helped persuade administrators to make sure all cafeteria coffee comes with a "Fair Trade" label, which means bean pickers in Latin America and Africa were paid higher than the going rates. Their peers on another 300 campuses are pushing to follow suit, according to Students United for Fair Trade in Washington, D.C.

Coffee is just the beginning. Bon Appétit, an institutional food-service provider based in Palo Alto, Calif., relies on organic and locally grown produce. In each year since 2001, more than 25 colleges have asked the company to bid on their food-service contracts. Though Bon Appétit intentionally limits its growth, its collegiate client list has grown from 58 to 71 in that period.

"It's really just been in the last five years that we've seen students become concerned with where their food was coming from," says Maisie Ganzler, Bon Appétit's director of strategic initiatives. "Prior to that, students were excited to be getting sugared cereal."

To reach a younger set that often doesn't drink coffee, Fair Trade importer Equal Exchange rolled out a line of cocoa in 2003 and chocolate bars in 2004. Profits in both sectors have justified the project, says Equal Exchange co-president Rob Everts. What's more, dozens of schools have contacted the firm to use its products in fundraisers and as classroom teaching tools.

"Kids often are the ones who agitate in the family" for recycling and other eco-friendly practices, Mr. Everts says. "So it's a ripe audience."

Concerns of today's youthful food shoppers seem to reflect in some ways the idealism that inspired prior generations to join boycotts in solidarity with farm workers. But today's efforts are distinct in that youthful consumers say they don't want to make sacrifices. They want high-quality, competitively priced goods that don't require exploitation of workers or the environment. They'll gladly reward companies that deliver.

One activist who shares this sentiment and hears it repeatedly from her peers is Summer Rayne Oakes, a recent college graduate and fashion model who promotes stylish Fair Trade clothing.

"I'm not going to buy something that can't stand on its own or looks bad just because it's socially responsible," Ms. Oakes says. "My generation has come to terms with the fact that we're all consumers, and we all buy something.... So if I do have to buy [food], what are the consequences? Who am I affecting on the planet? What am I affecting on the planet?"

Wanting to ameliorate the world's big problems can be frustrating, especially for those who feel ineffective because they're young. Marketers are figuring out that teenagers resent this feeling of powerlessness and are pushing products that make young buyers feel as though they're making a difference, says Michael Wood, vice president of Teenage Research Unlimited, a market-research firm in Northbrook, Ill. His example: Ethos Water from Starbucks, which contributes five cents from every bottle sold to water-purification centers in developing countries.

"This is a very easy way for young people to contribute.... All they have to do is buy a bottled water," Mr. Wood says. "Buying products or supporting companies that give them ways to support global issues is one way for them to get involved, and they really appreciate that."

Convenience is also driving consumer activism. Joe Curnow, national coordinator of United Students for Fair Trade, says she first got involved about five years ago as a high schooler when she spent time hanging out in cafes. Buying coffee with an eco-friendly label "was a very easy way for me to express what I believed in," she says.

For young teens, consumption is their first foray into activism. At the Fayerweather Street School, Emma Lewis teamed up with classmates Kayla Kleinman and Therese LaRue to sell Fair Trade chocolate, cocoa, and other products at a school fundraiser in November. When the tally reached $8,000, they realized they were striking a chord.

"It's maybe not making as much of a difference as it would if we were adults," Kayla says. "But it is doing something."

Some adults hasten to point out the limitations of ethical consumption as a tool for doing good deeds and personal growth. Gary Lindsay, director of Children's Ministries at Grace Baptist Church in Hudson, Mass., encourages Fair Trade purchases, but he also organizes children to collect toys for foster children and save coins for a playground-construction project in Tanzania. He says it helps them learn to enjoy helping others even when they're not getting anything tangible in return.

"When we're benefiting, how much are we really giving? Is it really sacrifice?" Mr. Lindsay asks. Of Fair Trade products, he says: "Those things are great when we're given opportunities like that once in a while. But I think for us to expect that we should get something out of everything we do is a very selfish attitude to have."

Others say that the Millennial generation was destined to bring their concerns to bear on food products as a result of the way they grew up. And justice in the fields isn't always the foremost concern.

Through child safety seats and other protective products, "this generation has been made to feel so special and so important that they are very concerned with themselves and what goes into their bodies," Bon Appétit's Ms. Ganzler says. "They believe, 'I'm unique, and I deserve to have food that is good for me.' ... I'd venture to guess [concerns about farm workers are] lower on the priority list than what actually impacts themselves."

Although Equal Exchange prices its products competitively with other premium brands, the ethical consumption trend is most visible among the financially comfortable. Bon Appétit doesn't serve public college campuses, she says, because they don't provide enough latitude for the firm's teaching mission. Even on private campuses, many students don't seem motivated to advance a cause.

"The number of students who care about these issues is certainly growing, but it does remain a vocal minority," Ganzler says. "It is not the majority of students that are engaged in related issues.... Most students are going about their business worrying about finals."

Apathy and finances aside, image still matters in junior high and beyond. And in some circles, food is a big part of it.

"If I were to come into school with a Coke, I wouldn't feel as cool as if I came in with a mango-tango smoothie," Emma says. "Looking healthy and being healthy makes you, like, feel good and feel like you look good."

I Think this is bullshit, its nice to see all americans giving their opinion, since they are here, have jobs, has fridge full in their homes, computers, internet and all and can support their families.

Im not an american, im from brazil, We came here to have better lives.. If you ever been outside the US, you will know what im talking about.

I also do not think it is fair to sneak into the country illegally while so many others are waiting in line to do it the right way.

And had she done that, she likely would not have to settle for an employer who treats her like that

wuvme - I know that this is true, I have seen it, where people have stayed in stores and restaurants and offices all night and are made to be slaves. Not just from Mexico, but from Asia, eastern Europe too.

I have a question for you though, I would like your honest opinion, why do you think it is that Brasil has had so much difficulty providing a solid middle class economy for it's own people? It is not a resource poor nation (nor is Mexico for that matter).

Do you think it could change? Would it matter?

I am not being sarcastic, I would seriously like to understand better.

Rose

edited to say that if this sort of thing is happening to THEM here in the U.S. NOW, it can happen to YOU TOO. Because at some point, you will need to hold onto your job to feed your family. Those of you striking out at the undocument worker are striking out at the wrong issue in my opinion.

Corporations are making record profits. They are stealing us blind - look at what Enron did. Look at oil and gas profits.

Follow the money, always follow the money. Just a thought.

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