Second Life Forums Archive - How Big is 87 Billion?

Stankleberry Sullivan

Interneter

Join date: 18 Dec 2005

Posts: 550

01-13-2006 15:09

From: Ulrika Zugzwang

We'll all be forking over an average US$3k apiece (not counting interest). Whee!

Well worth it, I'm happy to pay it. America rules.

Neehai Zapata

Unofficial Parent

Join date: 8 Apr 2004

Posts: 1,970

01-13-2006 15:10

I like to think of it as a birth tax on our children

_____________________

Unofficial moderator and proud dysfunctional parent to over 1000 bastard children.

Ulrika Zugzwang

Magnanimous in Victory

Join date: 10 Jun 2004

Posts: 6,382

01-13-2006 15:29

From: Neehai Zapata

I like to think of it as a birth tax on our children

It's like socialism except without any of the benefits.

~Ulrika~

_____________________

Chik-chik-chika-ahh

Zuzu Fassbinder

Little Miss No Tomorrow

Join date: 17 Sep 2004

Posts: 2,048

01-13-2006 17:11

From: Stankleberry Sullivan

Who were jerks before 9/11?

Who rejected these arguments before 9/11? Do you really not remember how things were in the US before 9/11.

read the previous posts

From: Stankleberry Sullivan

Most people believed that we were basically untouchable. When we discovered that we were quiet touchable, we decided to start dealing with the people who want to hurt us. Does that not seem reasonable to you?

Yes, most people did, which is sad. But the fact that some sort of attack would come was certainly understood. One of the prices of freedom (you know "freedome isn't free" and all that) is insecurity. You can't protect freedom by taking it away. Doing something about a problem certainly is reasonable. Knee jerk war is not.

From: Stankleberry Sullivan

Again, there were many many reasons that we invaded Iraq. Not just to free people from a brutal dictator. Not just because of the WMDs. Another reason was to try to help the entire middle east change and catch up with the rest of the world. Khadaffi gave up his chemical and nuclear weapons programs because of the Iraq invasion. He finally recognized that the US was serious about what it says. Syria left Lebanon partially as a result of our invading Iraq, which weakened them to the point where Lebanon could push them out, with France and the US's help.

I've never disputed that there are good things that have come out of the war. I'm not an absolutist.

From: Stankleberry Sullivan

Invading North Korea isn't very feasable, they have thousands of pieces of artillery within range of Seoul. They also most likely already have nuclear weapons. There are a lot of other reasons we don't invade North Korea, too.

You sort of got the point I was making. There are reasons we don't go around starting wars indiscrimantly. Iraq was one of those times when we went when we shouldn't have.

From: Stankleberry Sullivan

The thing you should try to understand is the concept of "lots of reasons". You seem to only be able to consider one reason at time, which is causing confusion. When you put all of the reasons together, it makes quite a lot more sense.

Yes I understand "lots of reasons" both for and against. I was only considering one reason at this time because I was responding to your post. Forgive me for following your example, I will try to avoid it in the future.

Emotional pleas coming from either the right or the left do little to sway my opinion. Lets do a quick balance sheet on the reasons that I find compelling:

Pro:
Free opressed people. -- certainly a noble goal, but the value varies from person to person. I think it is the strongest reason still standing
Make other countries fear us and do what we want. -- as evidenced in your post
Provide the opportunity for a more secure oil source. -- ok, not realized yet, but the potential is there
um... I'm sure there are some others, please fill them in for me

Con:
$$ cost -- the original point of this thread
Dead and wounded US soldiers
Dead and wounded civilians
Make other countries fear us and not do what we want. -- Iran's nuclear weapons program comes to mind here, but more importantly is lake of trust in the US. We "used up" some real political and moral clout by pushing ahead with this war on our own.
Deviciveness in the US fueling uncertainly and mistrust
um.. I'm sure there are others that I"m not thinking of, anyone want to help fill them in?

So, my scorecard so far:
Afghanistan: appropriate action and good followthru props to the prez for good work
Iraq: bad reasoning to enter, failure to win world opinion before startng, good execution of the invasion, bad redevelpment planning... the only thing that would make it worse now would be to leave the country before we get the government there stable and complete infrastructure rebuilding.

_____________________

From: Bud

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

Neehai Zapata

Unofficial Parent

Join date: 8 Apr 2004

Posts: 1,970

01-14-2006 12:38

Holy shit! I just read that site again.

Milk costs $3.99 a gallon????

I had no idea. I thought milk still costs like a dollar.

_____________________

Unofficial moderator and proud dysfunctional parent to over 1000 bastard children.

Zapoteth Zaius

Is back

Join date: 14 Feb 2004

Posts: 5,634

01-14-2006 12:43

Less than I'm worth..

_____________________

I have the right to remain silent. Anything I say will be misquoted and used against me.
---------------
Zapoteth Designs, Temotu (100,50)
---------------

Maylin Murakami

MeatMogul

Join date: 24 Sep 2005

Posts: 179

01-14-2006 20:15

How big? Big enough.

Spinner Poutine

Still rezzin or am I

Join date: 28 Oct 2005

Posts: 583

01-14-2006 23:10

$L425,000,000,000 roughly I guess

_____________________

Can't we all just get along?
Doughnuts,err Pie, for everyone

How Big is 87 Billion?
Stankleberry Sullivan Interneter Join date: 18 Dec 2005 Posts: 550	01-13-2006 15:09 From: Ulrika Zugzwang We'll all be forking over an average US$3k apiece (not counting interest). Whee! Well worth it, I'm happy to pay it. America rules.
Neehai Zapata Unofficial Parent Join date: 8 Apr 2004 Posts: 1,970	01-13-2006 15:10 I like to think of it as a birth tax on our children _____________________ Unofficial moderator and proud dysfunctional parent to over 1000 bastard children.
Ulrika Zugzwang Magnanimous in Victory Join date: 10 Jun 2004 Posts: 6,382	01-13-2006 15:29 From: Neehai Zapata I like to think of it as a birth tax on our children It's like socialism except without any of the benefits. ~Ulrika~ _____________________ Chik-chik-chika-ahh
Zuzu Fassbinder Little Miss No Tomorrow Join date: 17 Sep 2004 Posts: 2,048	01-13-2006 17:11 From: Stankleberry Sullivan Who were jerks before 9/11? Who rejected these arguments before 9/11? Do you really not remember how things were in the US before 9/11. read the previous posts From: Stankleberry Sullivan Most people believed that we were basically untouchable. When we discovered that we were quiet touchable, we decided to start dealing with the people who want to hurt us. Does that not seem reasonable to you? Yes, most people did, which is sad. But the fact that some sort of attack would come was certainly understood. One of the prices of freedom (you know "freedome isn't free" and all that) is insecurity. You can't protect freedom by taking it away. Doing something about a problem certainly is reasonable. Knee jerk war is not. From: Stankleberry Sullivan Again, there were many many reasons that we invaded Iraq. Not just to free people from a brutal dictator. Not just because of the WMDs. Another reason was to try to help the entire middle east change and catch up with the rest of the world. Khadaffi gave up his chemical and nuclear weapons programs because of the Iraq invasion. He finally recognized that the US was serious about what it says. Syria left Lebanon partially as a result of our invading Iraq, which weakened them to the point where Lebanon could push them out, with France and the US's help. I've never disputed that there are good things that have come out of the war. I'm not an absolutist. From: Stankleberry Sullivan Invading North Korea isn't very feasable, they have thousands of pieces of artillery within range of Seoul. They also most likely already have nuclear weapons. There are a lot of other reasons we don't invade North Korea, too. You sort of got the point I was making. There are reasons we don't go around starting wars indiscrimantly. Iraq was one of those times when we went when we shouldn't have. From: Stankleberry Sullivan The thing you should try to understand is the concept of "lots of reasons". You seem to only be able to consider one reason at time, which is causing confusion. When you put all of the reasons together, it makes quite a lot more sense. Yes I understand "lots of reasons" both for and against. I was only considering one reason at this time because I was responding to your post. Forgive me for following your example, I will try to avoid it in the future. Emotional pleas coming from either the right or the left do little to sway my opinion. Lets do a quick balance sheet on the reasons that I find compelling: Pro: Free opressed people. -- certainly a noble goal, but the value varies from person to person. I think it is the strongest reason still standing Make other countries fear us and do what we want. -- as evidenced in your post Provide the opportunity for a more secure oil source. -- ok, not realized yet, but the potential is there um... I'm sure there are some others, please fill them in for me Con: $$ cost -- the original point of this thread Dead and wounded US soldiers Dead and wounded civilians Make other countries fear us and not do what we want. -- Iran's nuclear weapons program comes to mind here, but more importantly is lake of trust in the US. We "used up" some real political and moral clout by pushing ahead with this war on our own. Deviciveness in the US fueling uncertainly and mistrust um.. I'm sure there are others that I"m not thinking of, anyone want to help fill them in? So, my scorecard so far: Afghanistan: appropriate action and good followthru props to the prez for good work Iraq: bad reasoning to enter, failure to win world opinion before startng, good execution of the invasion, bad redevelpment planning... the only thing that would make it worse now would be to leave the country before we get the government there stable and complete infrastructure rebuilding. _____________________ From: Bud I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.
Neehai Zapata Unofficial Parent Join date: 8 Apr 2004 Posts: 1,970	01-14-2006 12:38 Holy shit! I just read that site again. Milk costs $3.99 a gallon???? I had no idea. I thought milk still costs like a dollar. _____________________ Unofficial moderator and proud dysfunctional parent to over 1000 bastard children.
Zapoteth Zaius Is back Join date: 14 Feb 2004 Posts: 5,634	01-14-2006 12:43 Less than I'm worth.. _____________________ I have the right to remain silent. Anything I say will be misquoted and used against me. --------------- Zapoteth Designs, Temotu (100,50) ---------------
Maylin Murakami MeatMogul Join date: 24 Sep 2005 Posts: 179	01-14-2006 20:15 How big? Big enough.
Spinner Poutine Still rezzin or am I Join date: 28 Oct 2005 Posts: 583	01-14-2006 23:10 $L425,000,000,000 roughly I guess _____________________ Can't we all just get along? Doughnuts,err Pie, for everyone

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How Big is 87 Billion?